10-11-2001 14:18									#181
	Permission to unveil Project Delta? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

In case I've been that little bit too cryptic, Project Delta is the Cyborgs' first Sky Hydroponics Lab, the first satellite to be built on Chiron. I was planning to unveil it shortly - is this OK? If so, which thread (the CC or PC) should I use to do so? I believe I put the original message regarding it in the PC thread.

Edit: And should we maybe think about creating a new Discussions thread, seen as this one is now on its 7th page?

	11-11-2001 05:52									#182
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Sprayber- Phase I and II seem good.

Phase III sounds good as well- however... I suppose we can summary the landings and fightings- and summarize the first meetings between the races- then we will have the things happen as you say.

After that someone, Cyborgs, or Pirates; or the Spartans with University scientists send out a ship to the island to research and study the warring aliens... The peacekeepers send peace ships. The aliens have made bases- the Peacekeeper or the Spartan/Uni/Cyborg/Pirate boat is taken over by the losing aliens who are going to move further away and set up a base... then the game is wide open.

SMAc- perhaps later we will go to another thread... When we jump ahead, I;ll create a new thread.
- you are rogered on the Hydroponics lab.

	11-11-2001 07:13									#183
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Sprayber,

Your whole plan sounds good to me. I'd be willing to have Gibson Base be the one slaughtered by the aliens, a valiant stand ending with an attempted surrender, only resulting in a massacre. After that, Dunkirk like you said. As well, Angel operatives would be useful on the island once the bugs have taken over, as we're pretty good at being inconspicuous.

	11-11-2001 09:14									#184
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Okay, here is my list of events without any dates....


-Cyborgs launch their first Satellite
After the Cyborgs launch their Sky Hydroponic Lab, University launches its own satellite game month or so after that. Zhakarov doesn't fully know of the project, being distracted with other matters. Also, involves the secret joint efforts of the "hidden" University bases in Cyborg territory.

-Factions start shooting up various satellites
Will be mainly the big higher tech factions that will start shooting bunch of satellites, then the Believers, Cult, Drones and etc will start doing so after acquiring the tech via diplomacy or espionage.
Won't be hundreds of satellites, but will vary; Sky Hydroponics, Communication Satellites, GPS satellites, Space Telescopes, etc...

-War starts out between the Spartans and the Pirates
Athen Outpost will of course the Spartans first main target...and the Pirates will be ready. The Battle Dragons will be outnumbered, but they do hold the battle lines short distant away from the Outpost. Meanwhile, the pirates' Operation Trojan and Operation Blitz begins just when war was declared, slightly catching the Spartans in some areas off guard.
Operation Trojan won't be a complete success, but does disrupt the Spartans: various riots starts at various spartan bases, mainly outside of the base, but in the radius at various mines, farms and etc... Pirates also succeed in releasing some wild mindworm boils in the upland wastes, which distracts the Spartans for a short time, preventing them from going for Athen Outpost full force right away. In General, Trojan distracts the Spartans temporally within their territory, sort of preventing them from completly going on the offensive. Also provides the pirates more footage of how the Spartans mistreat their Drones
Operation Blitz is well more organized. When war starts out, the Third Fleet seperates in three major task force... One lead by Admiral Proudmoore go straight for Fleet Anchorage... Second goes straight for Parade Ground island, tackelling any Spartan ships there, Bombarbs the base and the island, land bunch of Nautilus Marines via Transport Cruisers and Air Transports(using drop pods to parachute down and Air Transports will have a Interceptor escort). Slightly before the second group arrives to do their action, a Probe Cruiser unknown to the Spartans launchs a Probe Chopper to the island, to drop off a Nautilus Probe team with the Porcupine weapon. By the time the Marines land on the island, the Probe Team succeeds in activating the weapon at the Spartan Air Base there...completly and cleanly destroying the Air base which was housing various spartan air units, aswell as anything else within a 10 or more kilometre radius. Not a planetbuster, but is a powerful weapon. No mushroom cloud, just a ball of big lasers lashing all over the place... Laser Warhead. The Probe Team will be temporally be missing, until some survivors our found later on... So by nocking out practicly all of the island's Air Force, the Air Transports and escorts didn't have to much trouble flying to the island and drop off some marine units. The Third Group will mainly go hunting down a Spartan Task Force near the Redemption Base area...then later simply hunt down any spartan ships in Chiron Sea.

-Free Drones not please with the Spartans
Free Drones openlly condemns, via diplo channel and at the Council, Spartan actions in Free Drone territory, attacking Athen Outpost. By then, Spartans finish dealing with various distractions in their territory and attacks Athen Outpost full force. The Nautilus Battle Dragons is force to retreat back into Drone territory, towards the Outpost. The Free Drones sends a group of units to the Athen Outpost where the Spartans was currently sieging the place. Spartans attacking the Free Drone units on the assumption that they are reinforcements for Athen Outpost. Free Drones say they were sent to patrol their most easterness border region from Spartan incursions...but since the Spartans attacked their units, it is considered an act of War. So skirmishs between the Drones and Spartans erupt all along their fortified border. Soon afterwards, there is various air battles between Free Drone and Spartan Air forces, both equally match... but Free Drones still outnumber the Spartan air units and they have slightly better jets and air training (Cloudbase Academy).
In the meantime, Big arse Naval Battle still going on around Fleet Anchorage between the Pirates and Spartans, Nautilus Marines and Spartan Ground/Garrison troops go into trench like warfare near Parade Ground. This happens because there not much of ground vehicules like Rovers, island is only a few squares big, and lack of air presence by both sides...especially since the Probe Team that activated the Porcupine, destroying practicly all of the air units at the Air Base.

..........

I am tired, will finish this later..... But I have stated the Pirates initial battle plans.

-LMP

	11-11-2001 11:33									#185
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Athens Outpost will of course be an objective for the Spartan Army, but the Spartans will know that the Pirates will expect this.

I can go along the the way the Drones and Spartans get into war. At that point the Spartans would set into motion one of their plans for an invasion of Drone territory. I understand the the drone border if foritfied, but the Spartans main streaght has been mobility. In many places they would be content to move around drone fortifications and allow them to stay there. the Spartan objective would be to take the nearest drone base(which would take many casualities.) And to maintain pressure on Athens outpost using gas pods(sporific) and other means. Of course the Spartan navy is going to be outmatched wherever they meet up with the pirate navy. So the pirates are going to have to go out and find it. As far as the sea base. read my post on the war. The pirates will no doubt take a seabase, but like i said in the post, the new seabase that i have mentioned will have no civilians(size 1 base) so when the pirates move in the base, it is destroyed like in the game. I really think my idea about the supposed Hive-Spartan split would be a cool addition to the war. Then when the drones are forced(after many months) to commit more and more of their troops to retaking their lost base and helping out at athens outpost the hive takes advantage and lauches a preplanned coordinated attack on drone bases accross Euytrian Bay. Supported by some Spartan aircraft. Of course Natan will want to weigh in on this. Maybe we could combine our two plans into one.

	11-11-2001 13:55									#186
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All sounds cool to me.

I'd like for Morgan to launch a couple of high-altitude energy-collecting satellites, sort of like solar collectors in space. Maybe people would start to look at reaching Pholus and the other moon (damn if I can remember its name).

And bring on the Progenitors! I'm still willing to do the Usurpers if no-one objects. I'm looking forward to invading Planet. And, Mr. Sprayber, might I suggest that the Spartans also be the last faction to evacuate their (non-guerrilla) armies from Deianira? Maybe have sort of a Centauri Thermopylae where they hold off the Usurper army against impossible odds and so secure their place in history?

	11-11-2001 14:05									#187
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. President All sounds cool to me. I'd like for Morgan to launch a couple of high-altitude energy-collecting satellites, sort of like solar collectors in space. Maybe people would start to look at reaching Pholus and the other moon (damn if I can remember its name). And bring on the Progenitors! I'm still willing to do the Usurpers if no-one objects. I'm looking forward to invading Planet. And, Mr. Sprayber, might I suggest that the Spartans also be the last faction to evacuate their (non-guerrilla) armies from Deianira? Maybe have sort of a Centauri Thermopylae where they hold off the Usurper army against impossible odds and so secure their place in history?

You yanked the thoughts right out of my head.

	11-11-2001 14:21									#188
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. President I'd like for Morgan to launch a couple of high-altitude energy-collecting satellites, sort of like solar collectors in space.

You mean like Orbital Power Transmitters? Won't they require Morgan to have discovered the prerequisite tech first?

quote: Maybe people would start to look at reaching Pholus and the other moon (damn if I can remember its name).

Nessus, I believe.

	11-11-2001 23:23									#189
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This sounds good to me. The Hive should have no trouble faking a breakdown of relations with the Spartans. Hopefully we'll finish the Cyborg Factory SP before entering the war, which will give us a big edge in terms of morale. The Hive will try to use its self-propelled artillery and human wave tactics to punch holes in the Drone line which it can then exploit with its fast rovers. The goal will be to get Free Drone armies to flee and/or surrender (possibly a promise of safe passage to a neutral country) and to gain control of the bases immediately to the North, hopefully linking up with the Spartans. The Hive will need the Spartans help to keep air superiority. Also, I hope I can do some commando/infiltration operations.

When the Aliens land, the Hive will try to help in the defense/evacuation of the Deneira island, and in any subsequent naval blockade of the island.

	12-11-2001 01:13									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. President All sounds cool to me. I'd like for Morgan to launch a couple of high-altitude energy-collecting satellites, sort of like solar collectors in space. Maybe people would start to look at reaching Pholus and the other moon (damn if I can remember its name).

As for reaching Pholus and Nessus, maybe man on each of the moons maybe....... but no bases on the moons until after Advanced Spaceflight.


Sprayber, as for the Free Drones.......maybe the Spartans take a Drone base near Athen Outpost and the border? further you go east of the Drone border, and less and less fortified.
And Free Drones does have a kick arse air force and will be the Spartans and Hive biggest problems, no matter what. And the Cloudbase Academy floats in the air, so will be like a floating Air Carrier Base :P but will stay put near the base it was built, which is Free Drone Central...could be the main reason why hive not able to capture the base.

I don't mind the Hive bypassing the Free Drone Blockade with an Amphibious Invasion via the Erytion Bay, and taking a couple of bases along or near the coast. Then siege Free Drone Central with a lot of problems. Hive maybe pretty much ignore the Pirates and the Pirates pretty much ignore the Hive.... but if Hive unit strays near a Pirate base, will be blasted to smitherines
Aslong as the Free Drones gets their bases back eventually later on the war or after it.......

I agree with and orginally planned to Capture Fleet Anchorage...where the Pirates use their Sweetdream Gas....Officially called Stun Gas. This pretty much stuns the populace and the garrison, where the majority falls asleep because of the gas.... easier for the Pirate Marines to take the base. Pirates knew they would have trouble taking a spartan base due to defenders, to nock them out with stun gas invade nd put the military types into make shift brigs and percentage of them temporally shiped to Prison Island for the duration of the war. then unintentionally destroy Hydrodock... base was small and recently established... so after taking a few direct artillery hits, becomes unstable and eventually sinks But Pirates will of course be nice enough to pick up any life boats and so on

Stun will also be used at Parade Ground, but like to see trench warfare on the island for the duration of the war....eventually getting into a stalemate around the Base.

Would like to the war to recently end before Aliens arrive.......
No fleet of ships and it wouldn't make ence.....they would crash land everywhere, not all in one location. Only One Usurper ship and One Caretaker ship. After the Usurpers takes the island, with of course still some guerilla problems... they will really be able to establish themselves. I would to have Pirates forces fighting with the Spartans...and then fight together as guerillas. Will be ironic seeing two Factions been at war with each other fighting together like they were best friends
To have Pirate units on the island.....Pirates sends one of their Battle Dragon Divisions to the island via the Free Drone base, planning to attack Bunker 118 which is currently blockaded and bombarded by the Fourth Fleet there. There will also be Nautilus Marines landing near Bunker 118 before the war ends....the attack never happened.

After the Usurpers takes over the island, they take almost a decade to properly establish themselves. And prepare further invasions towards the Caretakers and for the Manifold Nexus in the central Continent. University will eventually have an unwelcomed visitors in their territory
It would be interesting to note how fast the Usurper population grows...pump out many babies a year? babies grow up fast?
maybe cloning? hey, they nicknamed Bugs after all :P

-LMP

	12-11-2001 01:16									#191
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there two moons just to say orbiting Chiron, Nessus and Pholus.

-LMP

	12-11-2001 02:38									#192
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Exactly how far are we jumping. I thought it was only 5 years.


One thing about the Spartans at Bunker 118. Santiago's son, Leonides, will be at Bunker 118. And he will be among those that are killed defending 118 and the other human settlements. He was 17 in 2200.

	12-11-2001 07:22									#193
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I say we can jump about 10-15 years So 27 to 32 years for Leonides when he fights the Usurpers.

-LMP

	12-11-2001 07:46									#194
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quote: Originally posted by [LordLMP] I say we can jump about 10-15 years So 27 to 32 years for Leonides when he fights the Usurpers. -LMP

Ok that makes way more sense than the 5 years i was thinking about.

	12-11-2001 18:41									#195
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Lord LMP, you mention the Pirates attacking Spartans near Redemption Base. That equals a full war with the Believers too. And with the Cult war assets lying around, that spells a huge campaign...
Unfortunately for the Believers, they have a very small navy compared to the Pirates. So, I think that the Pirate attempt to destroy the Spartans near Redemption Base will fail, with all Believing assets coming along.
However, the Pirates will take over He Walked on Water. The Believing Navy is overwhelmed, and remains of it either flee to mainland for safe or join the Spartan fleets. There will be Believing support for the Spartans in form of troops and hardware throughout the war, officially or unofficially.
There should be some Believing trainers or psychological experts at Bunker 118, but nobody'll remember them after the Usurper onslaught (Like the Finns at Vietnam, I bet none of you know about them.)
The Caretakers are more close to Believing turf. Believers will assist in "driving away the unholy demons", and maybe some Believers will encounter the Caretakers at last. Maybe some secret relations with them (Believing citizens would not like it) in the style of X-Files . They do have advanced tech and all.
Believers and satellites: I doubt they would need the satellites. It's their Promised Land, why leave it? And purchasing the tech would cost way too much. Probing it is a viable option, but their probe assets have other things to do. Foil Probes here we come...

	12-11-2001 21:39									#196
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I didn't ment within Believer waters....just the area between Redemption Base, Cult Seabase, Drake Landing and a Peacekeeper Base. That Area in General... but i can see some Spartan ships falling back within Believer waters...and the Pirates still going after them. But the Pirates not interested in fighting the Believers. If the Believers declare war on the Pirates, so be it...but Pirates will not concentrate any forces on the Believers, as they will be concentrating on the Spartans.... of course, pirates will still have ships elsewhere for defence.... If the small Believer fleet want to cause trouble, well they will attract attention from the Fifth Fleet in Nessus Sea.... but will be hard to commit any reasources in taking He Walks On Water seabase...as the Nautilus Marines will be focus on the Spartans. But there will be a Battle Dragon division defending the mining operations west of Mount Planet.

As for the believers sending troops...that will be hard and the Pirates will be pretty good at intercepting any transports going towards the Spartans, Hive and Pirate bases.

The Cult would probebly not get involve in such a large war and will not give the believers any reasons to nock on their door so soon after the last long war. Of course, it is up to Cyber

-LMP

	12-11-2001 21:54									#197
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Okay, as for the Caretakers.... Believers will get the credit to make first contact with them...which the believers hostile, seing alien "demons" and all.........

SMAC Fanatic said the cyborgs are sendingcolony pods in the Mount Planet area and one base will be given to the Data Angels....and believers in response sent a colony pod at mount Planet.... Can say the believers gave the Caretakers an bad impression of humanity... and since to lack of understandable communication and the need for properly establish base... Caretakers captures the believer base and eventually started attacking the Cyborg/Data Angel base...capturing or not before learning the Humans language. Pirates Battle Dragons there will get involve and help defend their allies' bases. Hive could also get involve on that front by Air Droping troops on Mount Planet and Air Raids...and Mount Planet also in Peacekeeper reach.

But situation with the Caretakers ain't as bloody as the ones with the Usurpers, and because of the Believers and Hive, they distrust humans...but open to peaceful coexistant.

Planetary Council Base will be in air and naval reach of the Caretakers too.... When both alien factions soon learn that the other survived, they'll both get ready for a crusade to eliminate each other... and if any humans gets in the way, eliminate them aswell... and any humans allying with their Archenemy. So anything in between them are in danger of the alien crusades...and they will both try to take the Manifold Nexus later on in the future.

-LMP

	12-11-2001 22:14									#198
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I think the Hive would rather grab some bases and keep them than get involved in pushing all the way to the Drone capital. The Central Committee considers such a goal to be too ambitious, and would rather focus on severely punishing the Drones than getting rid of them.

	12-11-2001 23:09									#199
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Don't think the Gaians are just going to sit back and do nothing if the Believer-Cult war starts up again. Despite their professions of neutrality (which currently are perfectly true), they will aid the Cult if they are ever in real trouble. They really dislike the Believers' belief that Planet is their promised land, but so far have been nothing but friendly towards them.

	13-11-2001 01:53									#200
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SMAC. Surely Dee could see that the Believers would be defending themselves and their allies if the pirates attacked. If the Gaians attacked the believers the Spartans would be honor bound to then declare vendetta on the Gaians.

LMP: So much for keeping it just between the Spartans and Pirates

	13-11-2001 03:27									#201
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I see Morgan Exploration on Deianira getting swamped by the Usurper shock troopers. Much of the population gets "reconstituted" and the military assets there are lost. Later the Defense Ministry orders the landing of Special Forces troops in Usurper territory to harass and damage the aliens. The government will be neutral in the Pirate-Spartan war, but will supply the Spartan side with technology and other assistance. Once the aliens attack the Manifold Nexus, this will have to be cut back somewhat.

Which brings me to the Usurpers. They have three main goals: Locate and destroy the Caretakers; locate and occupy the Manifold Nexus; and neutralize any humans that threaten their territory and their other objectives. The ultimate goal is of course the Planetary Flowering, but that lies far in the future. The capture of the Nexus supports this objective. Marr will soon realize the futility of an invasion of the Eastern Continent, but will build a navy and air force to defend against Spartan, Pirate, and Hive incursions. Complacency in the invasion of the Nexus could lead to embarrassing losses. As for population growth, I'm thinking of artificial means. Cloning and synthetic spawning are possibilities.

	13-11-2001 05:04									#202
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I think the Spartan-Pirate war will end abruptly when the bug land.

	13-11-2001 06:13									#203
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Sprayber, the Spartan and Pirates could still spend most of their attention against each other... Believers won't be able to cause the Pirates to much trouble and Hive would be concentrating on the Free Drones.

Only the Hive could seriously be able to send troops to help the Spartans...but the Hive of course will be concentrating on the Free Drones.....

Believers, morganites and etc won't exactly succeed in sending troops, weaponry, etc because of Distance and Pirates pretty much dominates the Seas....... Morganites/Believers COULD succeed in sneaking a few ships...but those few ships won't exactly be able to carry much to seriously help the Spartans.
Morganites atleast help Bunker 118, but Free Drones/Pirate units on the island would get in their way Sure Pirates can't cover all of the seas all the time....but Satellites can and may be able to borrow their allies satellites too...especially the Drones atleast

Natan, Hive will succeed in capturing some Drone bases with a Blitzkrieg/D-Day like Amphibious assault via the Eurytion Bay, taking out a few Drone ships there and mine the bay like crazy against Pirates and so on....but the Free Drone Blockade will still be there and Domai will be stupid to have units from the heavily fortified Blockade to help try to retake the drone bases....else the hive will be able to get through a weakened Blockade.
But the Hive will have trouble keeping the Drone bases..... populace will be a constant problem, aswell as air attacks and battle hardened units from the east. Free Drones will also be busy trying to retake the eastern base captured by the Spartans.

When the aliens crashland....Hive and Free Drones will declare a cease-fire...but will only effect the Military units...but the populace will do a lot of freedom fighting, causing the Hive there a lot of trouble, free drone probe teams will do a lot of their covert stuff to fight the Hive, and military will smuggle weaponry........ Hive may not agree in giving back the bases, but Hive will have a lot of trouble. but with the free drone base captured by the Spartans...maybe they give back after further quick done negotiations while they, along with practicly the rest of the factions, wonder about the unknown aliens fighting each in space and crashlanding on chiron...... and with Satellites, they'll be able to locate the Alien bases (but later on, Usurpers/Caretakers will jam/destroy the satellites above them). Pirates will of course not give back Fleet Anchorage or He Who Walks on Water (if the Believers is silly enough to declare war on the Pirates and cause trouble in Nessus Sea especially if they are nuissance enough to launch air raids on some of the Core Pirate bases with they newly build air force )

Believers won't exactly have good reason to declare vendetta on the Cult....but if they do, they are the aggressors again and take neg on their integrity and giving Good reasons to Peacekeepers to help the Cult....aswell as the Gaians.


-LMP

	13-11-2001 06:16									#204
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Capture Free Drone bases, but in exchance, the Free Drones as almost complete air dominance...especially over Free Drone territory

-LMP

	13-11-2001 06:21									#205
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Wrote this yesterday-

i think we are jumping 7-10 years?

After Landing
Like I said, and LMP- however, the Caretakers land near the Usurpers and overcome an investigatory ship, then, since they are losing the war, take the investagatory ship to the Central Continent and
land between the Cyborgs and University.

Cyborgs contact the Aliens and are the first to learn their language, they transmit the data to the Data Angels.
University deciphers the language.
Cyborgs make peace overtures.
Pirates gain the language from the Data Angels.
Zak is annoyed with everyone except Morgan (due to various problems and missed alliances with the Spartans, PK's, etc) Thus, he transmits the data to Morgan.
Caretakers attack the University- University crafts truce, allies with them against the Usurpers... seeing the Caretakers as to annoying to attack; they prefer to sit back and see what happens.

STORY BEGINS?

	13-11-2001 07:33									#206
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Spartans will not allow Fleet Anchorage to stay in Pirate hands. they would rather see it destroyed utterly than to allow that to happen. And they won't give back any bases to the Drones if they dont' get their base back. You couldn't expect them to act any other way. Bugs or no bugs. Would the Pirates do any differently? This has been outlined in the Spartans Last Stand Plan. Automatic destruction of bases being overrun. The Colonel was very adament about that.

The Pirates are going to have to get their hands dirty and destroy the base.

	13-11-2001 07:36									#207
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I thought the Caretakers were landing near Mount Planet?

	13-11-2001 11:37									#208
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Geez! What's come over you guys?!

I'm busy elsewhere for a few days and you go completely off the hinges!?
I'm having a hard time catching up!

Ah well... I guess that's what happens when the Peacekeepers get too caught up in their internal bureaucracy...

I'm still busy though, so I'll have to get back to you in another day or two...
just thought I'd let you know I'm still alive and all...

In the meantime... Have fun, I guess !

	13-11-2001 12:01									#209
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By the way, the Peacekeepers just might try to come to Zak's rescue in the Council...
They won't officially take sides or anything, but if he still wants to turn over his 'evidence', the PKs will at the very least agree to investigate the matter and report their findings back to the Council... It'll probably boil down to a largely inconclusive report, something to the effect that there's no hard evidence against anyone and that we basically don't have a clue what happened, but at least Zak can say that somebody appeared to take him seriously...

(Appearances are important, you know... )

	13-11-2001 21:41									#210
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Hey!
Where did this idea of the Believers attacking Cult come from? They have no interest in that, not when they are defending like he11 to prevent Pirate landings (which will never come, but Miriam will just say that it was because of their military superiority or something).
I suspect that the assailant was this sentence:

quote: And with the Cult war assets lying around, that spells a huge campaign...

That meant, with the old assets from the Cult war lying around, that spells a huge campaign against the Pirates.
My bad. Should of formulated it better.

I like the idea of Believers making first contact with Caretakers. Approved!