29-10-2001 00:55									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Daoloth If you can't use enemy roads during war time, how are you going to get vehicles through their forests and mountains??? Are they telling us we can't put artillery in our enemies mountains or have Panzers go through their forests???

It makes sense to me. By the way, it's Jungle, not Forest. Imagine a handful of veteran infantry units fighting from the jungles or mountains, harrassing your modern mechanized war machine until you give up and leave them alone. Sounds familiar...

	29-10-2001 01:08									#212
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sure provost,
iron works- increases production by 100% in city where it's built

	29-10-2001 01:15									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Could someone actually tell me what the Iron Works actually do? I know you need iron to produce certain units, but I wouldn't think that Iron Works are necessary to make iron available. Does it give you some kind of production bonus?

The Ironworks doubles production in the city where it's built. To build it, you must have Iron and Coal in the city Radius of the city (not just available through trade). It's available with Steam Power (when the Coal deposits appear.) The other drawback is its pollution--it produces twice as much pollution as any other improvement.

Pollution has been change quite a bit. Pollution is produced by individual buildings, not as a function of your shield production:
Airport: 1
Coal Plant: 2
Factory: 2
Iron Works: 4
Manufacturing Plant: 4
Offshore Platform: 2
Research Lab: 1
Also, each citizen over 12 produces 1 pollution point. The percent chance of a pollution square appearing each turn is the sum of the pollution points generated by that city. Mass Transit reduces the pollution from people and Recycling Center reduces the pollution from improvements. Hydro, Nuclear, and Solar Plants don't reduce pollution anymore--they just provide the benefits of Coal Power (+50% to factory production) without making more pollution. Hydro Plants can only be built in cities with a river in their city radius. Nuclear Plants can only be built in cities with a river or water square in their radius. Solar Plants can be built anywhere but they're really expensive and only arrive late in the game.

Global Warming is based on the total pollution produced each turn, not how many polluted squares are in existence. You can't just clean it up really quickly and avoid the effects like in the older games--you have to avoid pollution altogether if you want to stave off Global Warming. Also, Nuclear Explosions really increase the chances of global warming.

	29-10-2001 01:19									#214
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Ouch, damn looks like SMAC's planet is making a late game appearence in Civ3

Pollution sounds really harsh, how much do recycling and mass transit reduce pollution? Can you eliminate it entirely with a combo of improvements, or is it a persistent problem in the end game?

Also, someone earlier said Elvis isn't in Civ3, does the strategy guide mention The King?

	29-10-2001 01:21									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf Yes, but the point is that (according to you), expanding from 8 surrounding working-tiles to the maxed out size of 20 surrounding working-tiles, only require 10 culture-points. Since the temple-improvent is cheap & easy to build, thats way too fast. Again, why bother with implementing this 2-step work-area expansion, if its that easy to expand? I dont think your version is very likely.

Actually, I like this feature... if you can only work the eight squares right next to your city until you have built a temple and waited for the culture to accumulate, it will somewhat more realistically force you to initially found your cities right next to good resource squares instead of only considering all of the squares in your future city radius. I like the fact that this way, the suitability of the area immediately surrounding the city is imporant for city growth and production until your cultural radius has grown - and I think there are many screenshots which show that this is the case. Additionally, this feature will force even the most expansionist players to build cultural improvements from the start just to get to use all the best squares within the 21-square-radius at all

	29-10-2001 01:37									#216
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You have been of great help in the forum.

Thank you very much.

	29-10-2001 01:40									#217
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quote: Originally posted by Baloo Gee I wish Brian R. is still around. I think he is really the motor that generates Firaxis’ or Old Microprose’s ingenuity.

Brian Reynolds was good at getting rid of bugs and fixing broken design or AI problems, but I didn't really like what he did with Civ2. Yeah, it was a better game than Civ1, but only because Civ1 had so many annoying bugs. I really preferred the "feel" to Civ1. It was much more addictive than Civ2.

	29-10-2001 01:46									#218
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV Ouch, damn looks like SMAC's planet is making a late game appearence in Civ3 Pollution sounds really harsh, how much do recycling and mass transit reduce pollution? Can you eliminate it entirely with a combo of improvements, or is it a persistent problem in the end game? Also, someone earlier said Elvis isn't in Civ3, does the strategy guide mention The King?

Mass Transit and Recycling Center REDUCE population and production pollution but do not eliminate them. The book does not give percentages. Looks like our workers will have to keep vigilant in the late game to keep up with pollution.

No sign of Elvis, but Groucho is in (page 39)!
---
Marketplace produces happy-faces based on the number of luxuries in the city: For every 2 or fraction thereof, 1 happy-face is produced, up to a maximum of 4 happy's (for 7 or 8 luxuries).

	29-10-2001 01:49									#219
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Do the entertainers change with different cultures? Say an Asian entertainer or a European entertainer?

I ask this because we know that the population faces each have their own culture, so maybe the entertainers and such do as well.

	29-10-2001 02:16									#220
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quote: Originally posted by Jarouik Actually, I like this feature... if you can only work the eight squares right next to your city until you have built a temple and waited for the culture to accumulate,

Jarouik, I like this feature also. Im not against this new 2-step working-area expansion - on the contrary. I just think it would be much more challenging if the switch from 8 workable tiles, to 20 tiles appeared later. Lets say after 100+ accumulated culture-points; alternatively after 6+ city-pops. Already after 10 lousy culture-points seems pointlessly easy, and I dont believe that is the case.

I remember specifically that one of the Firaxians actually mentioned that both the work-area and the culture-border expands - but the work-area doesnt expand nearly as fast as the culture-border.

------------------------------

From one thing to another: Can one convert terrain-types back and forth, in Civ-3; the way one could in Civ-2?

	29-10-2001 02:18									#221
	Re: Hold On A Second... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Daoloth If you can't use enemy roads during war time, how are you going to get vehicles through their forests and mountains??? Are they telling us we can't put artillery in our enemies mountains or have Panzers go through their forests???

You haven't played many other 'wargames', have you.
We don't know yet if roads/rails will let us into mountains or jungle at the normal terrain movement rate, but the prohibition is not unusual. The rule IS an 'improvement'.

	29-10-2001 02:43									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf Jarouik, I like this feature also. Im not against this new 2-step working-area expansion - on the contrary. I just think it would be much more challenging if the switch from 8 workable tiles, to 20 tiles appeared later. Lets say after 100+ accumulated culture-points; alternatively after 6+ city-pops. Already after 10 lousy culture-points seems pointlessly easy, and I dont believe that is the case.

Well, I guess the expansion could occur later on, as you suggest... however, I think the existence of a couple of low-production squares such as mountains, jungle or even coast right next to the city could stop it from growing altogether before even reaching the size of six, if the radius couldn't be expanded easily enough. I believe they have playtested this feature and come to the conclusion that this is the best way of doing it... at least I like the fact that it is very easy to expand your radius to two squares, but that it won't happen until you build a temple - if it were harder, perfectionist civs that build improvements early on wouldn't get the bonus of getting to use the full city radius easily enough and so wouldn't have an advantage over expansionist ones...

	29-10-2001 02:54									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune Ahhh, actually smaller. Greek city states were really small. A Phalanx unit had somewhere around 2-3000 soldiers, I guess.

A phalanx was a unit of 64 soldiers, shaped like this:

code:

        x   
       xx  
      xxx
     xxxx
    xxxxx
   xxxxxx
  xxxxxxx
 xxxxxxxx
  xxxxxxx
   xxxxxx
    xxxxx
     xxxx
      xxx
       xx
        x

	29-10-2001 02:55									#224
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Sistine Chapel now only doubles effect of Cathedrals

I do not quite agree with the 'only'.

Sistine Chapel used to replace the Cathedrals, now it doubles them. In the final analysis, the cumulative effect will be much stronger; that is, if you build many Cathedrals.

If you don´t have any Cathedrals, then, of course, building the Sistine Chapel would be pure hypocrisy. Now the game makes sure you have to actually invest into religion to reap the benefits.

	29-10-2001 03:11									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Your.Master A phalanx was a unit of 64 soldiers, shaped like this: code: x xx xxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxx xxxx xxx xx x except not so elongated. They had halberd-like weapons (think like stylish spears) which they used to fight from sever ranks back. A fallen warrior could be replaced from the row behind, he replaced from behind, etc. all the way to the back OR, if the situation warranted it, from the centre.

Sorry, but the first half of what you say is nonsense.

A Phalanx was not a small unit, nor was it wedge-shaped. It was, indeed, 8 (or sometimes 16) ranks deep, but it looked like this:

(front)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

It was very hard to attack from the front, but easy to outmaneuver. Alexander solved this problem by protecting the flanks with Elite Heavy Cavalry (think Knights).

	29-10-2001 03:15									#226
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Comrade is correct. The first phalanz was 8*8 and when they became skilled at that, they moved to 16*16 with 16 ft lances.

	29-10-2001 03:20									#227
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quote: Originally posted by Jarouik at least I like the fact

Nothing has been confirmed either way, to my knowledge. So unless someone with access to that strategy guide speaks out...

quote: if it were harder, perfectionist civs that build improvements early on wouldn't get the bonus of getting to use the full city radius easily enough and so wouldn't have an advantage over expansionist ones...

I have read this a couple of times, but cant make any sense of it. What are you trying to say

	29-10-2001 03:35									#228
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Thanks a lot for the info, Andrew1999
I have a question concerning smart weapons: Do you know the effectivity of destroying a targeted improvement. Is it 100 %, 50 %. Methods against the attacking.
Is there any punishment when you destroy non-militaristic improvement (like temple, hospital). Will you loose your reputation, because you have committed a war crime?

	29-10-2001 03:39									#229
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Everything in the guide points to a fixed, 20-tile area that citizens can work. Culture just affects the political boundary of your civ, city resistance/assimilation, negotiating power (they'll accept worse deals if you're culturally superior), and propaganda (it's easier to steal cities with spies if your culture is superior.)

	29-10-2001 03:39									#230
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A wise man learns knowledge through wisdom.
So far the game reads great.

The political ramifications of the game seem interesting. One could simply destroy a city with words or a blockade, thus, totally disrupting trade. I still plan to trade, and to use it to plan my defenses. Nevertheless, I am definitely going into space my first game.

	29-10-2001 03:41									#231
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Andrew1999: thanks for all you info.

One more question though: how do satellites work in civ3?

thanks in advance!

	29-10-2001 03:48									#232
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quote: Originally posted by cyril25376 Thanks a lot for the info, Andrew1999 I have a question concerning smart weapons: Do you know the effectivity of destroying a targeted improvement. Is it 100 %, 50 %. Methods against the attacking. Is there any punishment when you destroy non-militaristic improvement (like temple, hospital). Will you loose your reputation, because you have committed a war crime?

I don't think there's a diplomatic penalty for destroying improvements. There's only one civ that cares and he's already pretty mad at you.

I think that the bombardment strength of the unit is compared to the defense strength of the target, with things like buildings having an inherent defense of 4. I have no idea if defense bonuses for terrain, etc. are applied or not--I could make a case either way. Then the strengths are compared as in combat. So a Stealth Bomber (power 8) attacking a Temple (defense 4?) would have a 2/3 chance of winning.

This is all speculation--maybe you should ask in the thread from the guy who got the game early.

	29-10-2001 03:53									#233
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Andrew1999: thanks for all you info. One more question though: how do satellites work in civ3? thanks in advance!

The book doesn't say anything about satellites. It does note that lauching the Apollo Program no longer reveals the entire map. I don't think there are any kinds of satellites in the game.

	29-10-2001 04:45									#234
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<>

Someone got the game early? Lucky bastard!
Can someone point me to his thread?

	29-10-2001 04:49									#235
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The thread is called "*bump* for anyone interested"

	29-10-2001 04:57									#236
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quote: Originally posted by Roman The thread is called "*bump* for anyone interested"

Thanks

	29-10-2001 05:10									#237
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You are welcome

	29-10-2001 05:26									#238
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quote: Originally posted by Andrew1999 It does note that lauching the Apollo Program no longer reveals the entire map.

Really? Hrrmmm...this seems like a misstep, unless there is another advance, improvement, unit or wonder that does reveal the entire map.

	29-10-2001 09:01									#239
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quote: Originally posted by ajbera Really? Hrrmmm...this seems like a misstep, unless there is another advance, improvement, unit or wonder that does reveal the entire map.

i know, its especially helpful to perfectionist civs who in life would know the entire map

	29-10-2001 10:18									#240
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I got one quick question****

does Leonardos Workshop still work the same?

I think it should be a small wonder, I hated upgrading in Alpha C.

but since it is not small wonder , I will have to get it firs tif it is the same as in CIV 2


thanks