01-11-2001 01:02									#31
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It never crashed in over three hours, but the fact that it's not a windowed game really sucks. I don't know if has to do with my current resolution setting, which if I change, my wife will severely bruise me. But when I start the game my screen mock resizes to about 2/3 of the screen. My task bar defining the bottom of the new screen, a couple of secs later my screen goes black and resizes to the whole screen. But the usually visible task bar doesn't display. (i can't see incoming icq messages, so unless i have the speakers on and hear the uh oh. i don't know.) I can alt-tab to get out and i see the reduced screen size with my tiny task bar. REAL F***ing annoying.


RAH
I do have a 950 machine with lots of memory and the game ran real fast.

	01-11-2001 01:35									#32
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A quick question about goody huts Rah. Did you also try accessing them multiple times with a one turn in between? Most games have their randomizer algorithms set in the previous turn/move. It 'might' still be possible to score some goodies with a little R&R.



Keep those reports coming Rah!


P.S

I know there were also some rumors about newspaper headlines floating around in the Civ3 forum. Is there anything like that in the game?

	01-11-2001 01:51									#33
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I tried an empty hut a turn later and it was still empty. But I must admit I didn't do the turn later trick enough to verify a rule. I will try that tonight.

And yeah some ranking floated up on the screen that I generally just ignored.

AND THE STINKING PALACE/THRONE ROOM IS BACK and has been improved.

The first time I was offered to improve the palace/throne room I almost fell off my chair laughing. I'll have to check to see how to turn it off.

I never really got that far in. I would play 30-50 turns then start a new game just to get the feel of the opening. At deity, the AI really gets a good start, so it's critical not to fall to far behind. Waiting for monarchy is like playing CTP, press enter to continue. press enter to continue. press enter to continue.

NOTE: reminder to set option to wait at end of turn before advancing. Years can fly by while you have nothing to move early in the game and gives you no chance to micromanage.

RAH

	01-11-2001 04:57									#34
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lol...I never understood why they thought a palace was going to grab players more than the civ2 throne room(not).You see it once and that is usually more than enough.

I remember the topic on this in civ3 suggestions/ideas and most were quite excited about it

	01-11-2001 07:07									#35
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RAH, Zylka's thread on the Civ III general forum has info on how to get a windowed mode going - check out Asher's comments in particular. He said you have to have a window open first.

Some of the restrictions on movement like no river bonus and the hut thing sound like they really work against a fast start - that's bad - particularly for MP. I hated the way you had to slowly plod around the map in CTP.

Is there a Go to command?

	01-11-2001 18:42									#36
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Another wonderful thing to slow the game down.
In despotism, you can't use gold to rush build!!!!!!!
If you want to rush build you force the people to work harder and it cost POPULATION POINTS. I captured an AI's capital that was size six using an army of three units (in despotism) By the time I made enough entertainers the city was starving. And it looked the the city was in trouble, I went to rush build a temple and it cost me two pop points. The city was size one by the time I got happiness under control. The army was pinned there until the problem was resolved.

The tech crawl is obnoxious. I had 6 cities and my cap had some decent trade specials at size 5. I had all the prereqs for Monarchy, and went to research monarchy. 32 TURNS. It was only like my 6 tech. I moved the science slider up to 100% and redid all my cities for max trade/currency and it didn't change from 32 turns. What the F*CK. There were other techs that I could have discovered in 3 turns. This really blows and looks very unpromising for MP.

Thanks AH, I'll check that out, but I believe it's more due to the resolution that my machine is set at, but if it helps, great.

It too early to be using goto commands yet but when your unit is active it's like CTP, you can point at a square and it will show you how long it will take to get there and the path it will take. This seemed to work pretty good.


RAH

	01-11-2001 21:36									#37
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rah: it sounds like the beaker requirements might be less related to how many techs you have than how far along the tech tree the tech you want to research is. Did that sentence make sense?

	01-11-2001 22:14									#38
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I assuming you're right. Each tech requires x number of beakers whenever you decide to research it. A high price to pay to get to a better form of government. It's not like I was a science slacker. 32 turns, 1600 years for one tech. I can imagine the MP games now. After the first session, no one is out of desp yet. I forsee some real yawners coming up. It's not that bad when you play the ai and the turns are flying by.

It does force you to research a few other techs first, like bronze, before because you can't remain defenseless for 32 turns.

I finally decided i wanted some KING money so I went and trashed a barb encapement. 25 dollars. Oh boy, a veritable fortune. But since you can't use money for anything besides upkeep or trading in despotism, what's the point.

RAH

	02-11-2001 00:21									#39
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That was for all of the folks who thought the ancient period went by too fast.

	02-11-2001 00:28									#40
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Rotflmao,

Yep, they sure fixed that.

Too bad for all the future MPers who only want to get to a more modern age in the first session. But then we all know that MPers are second class citizens as far as they're concerned. At least untill it's time to fleace us again with a "GOLD" addition.

They have however made the game harder. (at least for now, until we discover every little bug and loophole.)

The one bright thing about the 32 turns is that you can set you science slider down without affecting how long it will take, so at least you can get some extra money for later. (can't believe they didn't think that one through)

RAH

	02-11-2001 02:44									#41
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AH, I didn't say you couldn't get a settler from a hut. Just that I hadn't yet (i was an expansionist civ) which led me to believe that the frequency was less than we're used too.

I answered here, because I didn't want to attract a lot of people here that aren't looking at the implications for eventual MP play.

Thanks for not posting a link.

RAH

	02-11-2001 04:00									#42
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Rah,

I have another question concerning the future of MP. In Civ2 you also had the option of choosing to start in 3000BC and 2000BC with a number of established cities, units and techs already in place. Does Civ3 have a similar quick start option?

A function like this could give some MP'ers the chance to play in one of the later era's without slugging though the first 4000-6000 years.

	02-11-2001 04:28									#43
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That "fast start" option in civ2 is awful.Especially for mp.Its similiar to pressing end turn and nothing else for the first 40 turns.The results that is.Bad city placement,settlers irrigating in despo,a hodgepodge of techs.
It was nice once to start with 4 chariots

	02-11-2001 06:26									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Smash Bad city placement,settlers irrigating in despo,a hodgepodge of techs.

Yeah... that sounds exactly like the few times I tried it... at least you got four charriots;D

	02-11-2001 06:37									#45
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the aztecs are annoying as hell. in my current game they asked for some tech or other or else. i chose or else and continued as before. they responded with a bunch of jaguar warriors, an archer and a swordsman (i think). they killed off my spearman and archer that were defending Atlanta using a 4 jaguar warriors. i retaliated with a swordsman that was out chasing down yet another jag warrior and retook the city. the aztecs promptly moved up an archer, a jag warrior, and what looked to be a swordsman. they used the swordsman to weaken my swordsman, pulled off so as not to lose the unit, attacked with the archer, pulled him off as well, and finished the job with the jag warrior.


did i mention i was playing on chieftain

i'm glad i got this now, hopefully i'll be up to mediocre by the time MP comes out


Captvk: i don't see an accelerated start-up option, only a "quickstart" which is apparently a randomly generated map

	02-11-2001 11:01									#46
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This game does not sound very promising as a multiplayer platform.

The 32 turns to monarchy is horrifying. I hope you find ways to speed it up. Does road construction work? (I mean by increasing trade)

	02-11-2001 19:02									#47
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That 32 turns is the cap. One of the games I played the early part of yesterday I had a better science base. It was 28 turns.

Most of my starts have been with militaristic civs to try to milk the great leader concept. Maybe a science characteristic would be a little better. If you choose a civ that one of their characteristic is expansionist, you start with a scout which really helps to get out on the map. In the civIII forum Dan M. hinted that if you choose expansionist that you were more likely to get a nomad or a city from a hut. I opened quite a few huts and nada.

Cap, I played with the huts a little. (waiting a turn) and the result did change on one that I tried. 25 bucks one turn, and then bronze work the next turn. (it didn't work on an empty one before I had my cap down) So people that reset will still find a way to max the huts.

If you know a barb encapment is nearby, I do suggest clearing them out. I had explored the area and then later an encapment must have been set up. Every 4 turns or so a horse would attack a city, I never bothered cleaning up because the attacks raised my vet status on troops there.
Around 100bc I got a message that there was a massive appearance of barbs by one of my cities. 17 horses descended on one city and the next turn 12 descended on another city. For testing purposes I went back 6 and 8 turns to see if it would still occur and replayed it a few times. They appeared like clockwork. So reseters will not be pleased with that

I did try the zulus and got to a golden age early, It doesn't help that much when you're still in despotism, so I suggest holding off till you've changed government. I finally got to monarchy, but didn't test for Oedo years. I'll try that later.

RAH
Still deciding which characteristics work best. But that scout at the beginning really helps.

	02-11-2001 19:56									#48
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well Rich i have my copy now and all i can say is..........hm....ctp 123............*music kicks in*

but to be honest i havent' had a real chance to play....too busy watching the yanks last night....

but the tech ....... my god 32 tech to research warrior code..... i hate the pop up screens...... open close open close ....sigh.....

	02-11-2001 20:43									#49
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Been following your reports with growing trepidation, Rah.

It looks like it will be a wash for MP.

I suspect that the reason for Mon being 32 turns is that they must be thinking of European style monarchy that came with the Barbarians over-running Rome in about 400 AD or so, not the Anciet variety which they consider Despotism.

How does the game look and play?

Is the interface smooth?

From what i heard here and elsewhere, the game doesn't sound all to exciting in the early years.

	03-11-2001 11:50									#50
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I tried Japanese. Built a city next to the Indian boarder and built a temple. Suddenly my boarder expanded and pushed the Indians' boarder back. But my city site was not good enough so I did not get the resource. Next time I will do a better job. A pretty good way to steal a resource, right?

Japan starts religious so I guess that helped. Met Chinese and Russian later, they were all impressed by my culture. Russian offered a tech for 24 gold and I agreed. China had 5 more techs than me and 101 golds. I did not have anything to trade. Fortunately Indian was between China and my forgotten civ. I did not build any defense unit before temples. Nobody walked in my empty cities;D.

	03-11-2001 14:20									#51
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quote: Originally posted by rah That 32 turns is the cap. One of the games I played the early part of yesterday I had a better science base. It was 28 turns. If you choose a civ that one of their characteristic is expansionist, you start with a scout which really helps to get out on the map. In the civIII forum Dan M. hinted that if you choose expansionist that you were more likely to get a nomad or a city from a hut. I opened quite a few huts and nada. RAH Still deciding which characteristics work best. But that scout at the beginning really helps.

Ok having played a bit now...... i triggured a golden age....no point in despot.... got a nomad from my first hut...... yee haw.... but i am amazed at how quick the ai expands.....

you have to make peace.... in my first game the ai kept sending wave after wave of troops....killing me.....

peace makes it easier to expand and to weasel techs and such away from the ai....

the hut with the free maps.....hahahaha what a joke.....the only thiing worse is the empty ones....

ai seems peacefull...... not sure if this is a good thing....

playing deity , i miss the second settler..... your cap really has to pump out two settlers and then start a wonder......allowing the other cities to build the martial law troops..... the ai builds a wonder right quick.......

contact on a regular or default map is quick! and being picked off by barbs is easier and more deadly....i had an ellie take out a wandering settler....needless to say it hampered my growth somewhat

	04-11-2001 00:46									#52
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Xin Yu... what do you think about the game so far.
I think it's harder overall... but we haven't had a million games to disect it yet. Have you found and good Xin tricks yet?

	04-11-2001 03:19									#53
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I don't have the game, but I read about the slow science rate in a thread at the Civ3 forums. People over there were also confused/appalled at the slow pace of discovery. It seemed that no matter what you did (build roads, change the science rate etc), it still wouldn't change.

The conclusion was that it is the number of beakers (if there is such a thing in Civ3?) that your civ has when you choose a tech that determines how long it will take to discover it. Is this what you guys find too?

Also, how is it to play the game? Disappointing or exciting because it is not like Civ2?

More Viking scribes, please!

Carolus [can't wait to get my copy]

Last edited by Carolus Rex on 04-11-2001 at 03:24

	04-11-2001 03:31									#54
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I'm starting to get worried by newbie responses in the Civ3 general forum.

Many new players seem to find the game too hard, even on the lower levels. While the diehard civ fans probably love this, the average player does not. That negative feedback could work against the succes of Civ3 in the long run.

	04-11-2001 04:51									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex I don't have the game, but I read about the slow science rate in a thread at the Civ3 forums. People over there were also confused/appalled at the slow pace of discovery. It seemed that no matter what you did (build roads, change the science rate etc), it still wouldn't change. The conclusion was that it is the number of beakers (if there is such a thing in Civ3?) that your civ has when you choose a tech that determines how long it will take to discover it. Is this what you guys find too? Also, how is it to play the game? Disappointing or exciting because it is not like Civ2? More Viking scribes, please! Carolus [can't wait to get my copy]

I don't think it's that. There is max number of turns "32". So if people's science rate is bad, no matter how good or bad you change it, it doesn't have any effect so people are thinking that.

	04-11-2001 13:48									#56
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quote: Originally posted by CapTVK Many new players seem to find the game too hard, even on the lower levels. While the diehard civ fans probably love this, the average player does not.

My thought exactly after reading reviews and some threads in the Civ3 forums. This is excellent, especially since the game is SP only!

Carolus

	05-11-2001 00:26									#57
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Well Rah you've been testing Civ3 for almost a week now. What are the prospects for MP fans?

	05-11-2001 02:43									#58
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quote: Many new players seem to find the game too hard, even on the lower levels. While the diehard civ fans probably love this, the average player does not. That negative feedback could work against the succes of Civ3 in the long run.

This is or could be very true.Steve Clark posted an in depth thread on this months and months ago.His concern was that while catering to experienced civ players,you could easily shutout a large portion of your intended market.Then you don't get sales.You don't get follow up stuff.You end up with nothing.
He envisioned a game where many of the "difficult" options would be just that..options.So you could have raw "what the heck is this crap?" newbies to the beaker squeezing seasoned player that lands in 20ad.
Remember,that in the big picture,diehard civers only make up a small % of the overall gaming sales picture.

The upcoming patches might make or break this one....

I'll be playing either way

	05-11-2001 03:21									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Smash Remember,that in the big picture,diehard civers only make up a small % of the overall gaming sales picture. The upcoming patches might make or break this one.... I'll be playing either way

As I'll probably be


But still....I think the fault doesn't lie so much with newbies as with the fans. A game that "rocks" for me might not please casual players. Remember the previous Civ titles were all sleeper hits. You had to be "in the know" if you knew about civ at all.


Could Civ3 become as popular as the sims?


I remember an article by Chris Crawford about this, maybe I can find it.

	05-11-2001 08:04									#60
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Velocroix has started an interesting strategy thread on the Civ III strategy forum which is worth a look. Seems like there are ways around the slow science rate and also to rush build wonders ("Lumberjacking".

As for the newbie comments, a lot of them show a complete lack of understanding of the game, or even obvious game features and basic rules, and I'm not paying much attention to them. They are spam Ming - do something

One thing that is holding people back I think is we are so rusted onto our civ II strats that some players are having trouble adapting (I didn't mean anyone on this thread btw).

I'm quite looking forward to playing it.