31-10-2001 06:41									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous Gee, maybe because of people DLing the game is why they AREN'T releasing it everywhere?!? Ever think of that?

Erm, that doesnt even make sense. How can it possibly help them increase sales by denying the majority of the world the option of buying the game?!? This can only promote DLing, until they get there act together and realise there are other people in the world.

	31-10-2001 06:49									#32
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If I wasn't restricted with my 56k, I'd be DLing it right now. I just care about getting it faster, if I have to pay 50 bucks but can have it right now, I'll buy it. But if I could download it first, I'd do that. Online software distribution would get rid of a lot of WAREZ.

	31-10-2001 13:43									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

people are downloading it already
WHERE ? I WANT IT NOW

I've been surfing through billions of pop ups and porn adds, but no civ3

	31-10-2001 13:51									#34
	Put an end to popups!

Hm, I didnīt know that posting the pdf manual is illegal - I donīt support piracy.

I hope I can buy a US Version here in Germany in the next days...

	31-10-2001 14:37									#35
	Re: Illegal is illegal, and not legal! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin Civ III is out and so is all the illegal stuff related to the game. So I think it's good to remind three things. 1. Buying or dowloading an illegal copy of Civ III is strictly forbidden by law. 2. Making copies of an authentic copy of the game is also forbidden, unless your local laws allow that. In Finland you're allowed to make "a few copies" (2-3) for your own personal use and your closest relatives (like mum, dad, siblings,...). 3. Spreading the handbook as a PDF document is also forbidden, unless you have the permission of the copyright holder (in this case Infogrames).

1. just because we are not living in the US, we are treated as second class citizens. if they had started to sell it all over the world at the same time, most people wouldnot bother about obtaining private copies.. do not blame individuals, this is the market, you cannot dictate them what to do and what not to do. basic economics knowledge.
2. spreading the manual cannot be illegal. a manual is totally useless, if you donot have the game, so there is nothing wrong with it.

	31-10-2001 14:41									#36
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous Gee, maybe because of people DLing the game is why they AREN'T releasing it everywhere?!? Ever think of that? Obviously not.

LOL

You're one bright guy..

	31-10-2001 15:00									#37
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous Gee, maybe because of people DLing the game is why they AREN'T releasing it everywhere?!? Ever think of that? Obviously not.

Youdo know that it is total nonsense you're telling there. It's the opposite; Because they don't release it worldwide people will try to download it. If they DID release it worldwide most people would buy the game instead of downloading it...If the stores nearby had the game bynow it wouldn't make any sense for me to download the game now, knowing that I'll buy the game later today

Worldwide release would defently make piracy go down, cuz many people say: "the game just has been released and I want to play it now like the Americans, so I will download a warez copy". when the game arrives many will people say: "I got the game now, so why waste money buying the game"...I don't do it that way, but I know a lot of people who does it that way...

WorldWide release rulez

	31-10-2001 15:05									#38
	Increase Your PM Length

Whatever happened to globalization anyway? Only when it benefits America?

If the game had been released yesterday, I would have bought it yesterday. It didn't, so I'm looking at se*y t**ns and who-knows-what, instead of playing the game. Thanks Infogrames.

	31-10-2001 15:27									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I don't feel bad about downloading a warez copy of a game that I'm going to buy anyway. I only feel bad about not finding it anywhere among that sh!tty sex-crap. Godverdomme!

	31-10-2001 18:07									#40
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Mannamagnus I don't feel bad about downloading a warez copy of a game that I'm going to buy anyway. I only feel bad about not finding it anywhere among that sh!tty sex-crap. Godverdomme!

I know just how you feel...

	31-10-2001 18:23									#41
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It is quite a difficult task to get decent Warez over http format. mIRC is usually the place to go if you want Warez. Most FTP sites will let you download for free, but every once in a while you get those ratio homos who disconnect you after you upload... GAUD THAT SUCKS

Overall, piracy is probably bad for software sales, but if those didn't download the game, I doubt they would go out and buy it anyways. At least with piracy, you might get some fans. More fans is always good, even if some of them didn't pay for the game. Plus, I doubt Sid Meier would get anymore money if there was no piracy. Infogames would probably get that money. And they are an evil bastard company.

	31-10-2001 19:08									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Faboba, yes. I admit I have pirated games and software before, but I won't pirate Civ 3, when it comes. I want to support Firaxis for making such a great game, and want to see Civ 4 in a couple of years, this is why I'll pay for Civ 3.
I think here Firaxis benefit from piracy. I play the warez version for two weeks, and buy the real one with eyes out of head.

	31-10-2001 19:16									#44
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Civ3 test ring

Heres an idea.....One person with a cd burner and a photocopier gets the game, burns 50 cds, photocopies the documentation, sends them to friends for a small fee.

What do you warez people think of that? That gonna help firaxis too? After all, all the people who get the ripped cds are gonna go out and buy the real version afterwords right?

Point is...though some of you may be honest and will still buy the game after warezing it, there are many more who will not! To say that warez is helping any developer is so ridiculously ignorant. Pathetic in fact.

	31-10-2001 19:19									#45
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Yes yes yes yes. We're all rich guys from Finland who happen to have a law exonerating the acts everyone else is now supposed to feel guilty for.

L L

Actually i plan to pass the next two years travelling around the world to see if the half of the humanity that must survive with less than a dolar per day don't have warez copies or even some manuals. If i have time i plan also to see if they are dressing non original Nike t-shirts. Their only allowed to work 16 hours a day making them for me.

I am gonna buy the game anyway sooner or later.

But you know what i feel?

I feel that what infogrames deserved was that non USA citizens didn't bought even one single copy of the game.

If the USA alone is more important for their sellings than the rest of the all the world (sure this way their going to sell more copies in USA that all over the world, already talked with many europeans friends who when i ask: warez or original?, they say: what comes first to my HDD) then just make your deserved money in the USA.

Foot note: Actually the starter of this thread helped us that are looking for a warez copy. Just added more 4 or 5 people to ICQ that are looing for it. If i get it i will contact then all.

	31-10-2001 19:23									#46
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by ADG Youdo know that it is total nonsense you're telling there. It's the opposite; Because they don't release it worldwide people will try to download it. If they DID release it worldwide most people would buy the game instead of downloading it...If the stores nearby had the game bynow it wouldn't make any sense for me to download the game now, knowing that I'll buy the game later today Worldwide release would defently make piracy go down, cuz many people say: "the game just has been released and I want to play it now like the Americans, so I will download a warez copy". when the game arrives many will people say: "I got the game now, so why waste money buying the game"...I don't do it that way, but I know a lot of people who does it that way... WorldWide release rulez

Ok, lame excuse to do something illegal # 126, want to try any of the other 9,999 reasons people use to try to legitimize their illegal activities?

Basically you're saying this "I want a car but I can't buy it yet because they don't have the model I want, so I'll go out and steal someone else's and then get rid of it when I can buy my own".

I really don't care what people do because they have their own morals, but do NOT try to say what you're doing is "right" and "good" when it's not.

It's that simple.

Oh, and even if the game WAS released world-wide at the same time the same lame people would STILL try to make their illegal actions right, it's all the same, excuses, nothing but excuses.

	31-10-2001 19:30									#47
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Of course its an excuse Oz...

These people that HAVE to have everything at the same time as everyone else have the mentality of children...

Christ, grow up and wait. Stop acting like spoiled children who didnt get the toy their mommy and daddy promised for their birthday.

You all will live if you cant play civ3 for a few weeks. Trust me.

	31-10-2001 19:34									#48
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by SoulAssassin It is quite a difficult task to get decent Warez over http format. mIRC is usually the place to go if you want Warez. Most FTP sites will let you download for free, but every once in a while you get those ratio homos who disconnect you after you upload... GAUD THAT SUCKS Overall, piracy is probably bad for software sales, but if those didn't download the game, I doubt they would go out and buy it anyways. At least with piracy, you might get some fans. More fans is always good, even if some of them didn't pay for the game. Plus, I doubt Sid Meier would get anymore money if there was no piracy. Infogames would probably get that money. And they are an evil bastard company.

Wrong and wrong.

Do you know how much the "pirate economy" cost's everyone else each year? Probably at least 25% more than would cost otherwise.

It's amusing when I hear people complain about the high cost of records or games and yet they continue to pirate.

Think about it, if people DIDN'T pirate then stores would accept software returns, so people would hjave more options of returning a game if it wasn't like what they wanted, and games and music CD's would be cheaper.

By pirating software you do nothing but increase the cost, so more people pirate, the cost goes up and more stores refuse to accept software back.

It doesn't take a genius to see where this trend leads, but then again the people who do warez aren't necessarily stupid just selfish and self-centered.

(Also amusing how over 90% of the people advocating piracy in this thread are from outside the US. And you wonder why game releases are delayed worldwide because companies try to add more copy protection to their products?? Go figure, it's not hard to understand.)

	31-10-2001 19:35									#49
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

But why should we wait if we can download it?

	31-10-2001 19:39									#50
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Eli But why should we wait if we can download it?

Maybe for the same reason you don't steal things from stores when you can afford to buy them??

Do your parents care if you steal? I mean if you were caught shop-lifting would they be mad or just say "well he hadn't gotten his allowance yet so it's ok"?

Geeze, grow up and show some morals for once.

	31-10-2001 19:42									#51
	Tired of ads?

quote: (Also amusing how over 90% of the people advocating piracy in this thread are from outside the US. And you wonder why game releases are delayed worldwide because companies try to add more copy protection to their products?? Go figure, it's not hard to understand.)

Yup, it's not hard to understand. It's because the game isn't available here, not because of copy protection.

If it wasn't available in the US, people there would do just the same. It's not like "US GOOD, OTHERS BAD", you know.

	31-10-2001 19:45									#52
	An article for the naive Increase Your PM Length

This article is a year old, and the numbers have probably increased since then.

Have a look.

quote: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - May 24, 2000 Peter Beruk, SIIA, 202-452-1600, x 314 or pberuk@siia.net Five Years: $59.2 Billion Lost Software Industry Suffers From Cumulative Impact of Global Software Piracy; Publisher Losses Total $12.2 Billion in 1999 (Washington, D.C.) - Results of the fifth annual benchmark survey on global software piracy were released today, highlighting the serious impact of copyright infringement to the software industry. Piracy losses exceeded $12 billion worldwide in 1999 and topped $59 billion during the past five years. The survey, conducted by an independent research firm, was commissioned by the Software & Information Industry Association (SIIA) and the Business Software Alliance (BSA). The 1999 software piracy estimates indicate that more than one in every three business software applications in use during 1999 was pirated. Piracy losses for the U.S. and Canada lead every other region of the world at $3.6 billion, or 26% of the total. The continuing problem means lost jobs, wages, tax revenues, and a potential barrier to success for software start-ups around the globe. "Too many U.S. and Canadian businesses are getting a free ride on pirated software," said Ken Wasch, president of the Software & Information Industry Association. "Businesses continue to communicate, conduct commerce and manage their operations with pirated software, stealing revenue from software publishers. Software has forever changed the way business gets done, enabling participation in the digital economy. Business owners that fail to respect copyright law and pay for software should be prepared to incur fines that could have a significant impact on their bottom-line." "Software piracy continues unabated, robbing the industry of thousands of jobs, billions in wages, tax revenues and critical investments in new technologies," according to Robert Holleyman, president and CEO, Business Software Alliance. "No industry would or should tolerate such a high rate of theft. The explosive growth of the Internet is making piracy even more prevalent, since pirated copies of software can be distributed and downloaded quickly and globally, with the click of a mouse. Faced with this threat, BSA has stepped up its education and enforcement efforts, while also asking governments worldwide to show leadership in tackling this very serious, growing problem," concluded Holleyman. Global Overview Revenue losses to the global software industry due to piracy were estimated at $12 billion. North America, Asia, and Western Europe accounted for the vast majority (83%) of revenue losses. These regions are the predominant users of software, leading to the most prevalent losses. The ten countries with the highest dollar losses due to software piracy are (in rank order): the United States, Japan, UK, Germany, China, France, Canada, Italy, Brazil, and the Netherlands. Total losses for the top ten countries were $8.4 billion, or 70% of worldwide losses. In terms of piracy rates, the study estimates that more than eight in ten business software applications are pirated in 19 countries including Vietnam, China, and Russia. Regional Summaries -- Asia/Pacific, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Latin America, Middle East & Africa, and North America Asia/Pacific Software piracy in the Asia/Pacific region cost software publishers $2.8 billion in 1999, led by a $975 million revenue loss in Japan. Piracy in this region has accounted for more than $17 billion in losses during the last five years. Countries with the highest piracy rates were Vietnam (98%), China (91%), and Indonesia (85%). Countries with the highest dollar losses were Japan, China ($645 million), and India ($214 million). Eastern Europe Although dollar losses in Eastern Europe seem relatively low compared to other regions ($505 million in 1999), the region continues to have the highest average piracy rate at 70%. Countries with the highest piracy rates were the CIS - less Russia (90%) and Russia (89%). Countries with the highest dollar losses in Eastern Europe were Poland and Russia (both at $165 million). Western Europe Western Europe had the dubious distinction in 1999 of nearly eclipsing North America as the leader in software piracy revenue losses as five of the ten highest-loss countries are located here. Western Europe accounted for losses of $3.6 billion, just two million dollars less than North America. The five-year cost of software piracy in Western Europe cost publishers more than $15 billion in lost revenue. The largest dollar losses to software piracy in 1999 occurred in the United Kingdom ($680 million), France ($652 million) and Germany ($548 million). For the second consecutive year, the highest piracy rates were in Greece (71%), Spain (53%), and Ireland (51%). Latin America Latin American countries with the largest revenue losses in 1999 include Brazil ($392 million), Argentina ($192 million), and Mexico ($134 million). Combined, these three countries represent 64% of the region's dollar losses. While the overall piracy rate in Latin America declined slightly to 59%, the total losses climbed eight percent to $1.1 billion. The countries with the highest piracy rates were Bolivia (85%), followed by El Salvador and Paraguay (each with 83%). Middle East & Africa At 60%, this region had the second highest regional piracy rate in the world. South Africa, Israel, and Turkey represent 53% ($255 million) of the total dollar losses in the region. The countries with the highest rate of software piracy in the region were Lebanon (88%), Oman (88%), and Bahrain (82%). North America Historically, the combined U.S. and Canadian software markets have registered the lowest rate of software piracy for any region of the world. The North American piracy rate has steadily declined from 32% to 25% over the past five years. Due to the size of its software market, however, North America still accounts for the largest piracy losses to software publishers. In 1999, those losses exceeded $3.6 billion. During the past five years, North American software piracy has totaled almost $16 billion. In 1999, the U.S. had a piracy rate holding steady at 25% and the piracy rate in Canada rose one percent to 41%. ------ Jointly commissioned by BSA and SIIA, this study -- like the first four -- was conducted by International Planning & Research (IPR). The IPR study evaluated sales data and market information for 85 countries in the six major world regions, and was based on 26 different business applications. The study released today compares 1999 piracy rates to losses in 1998, 1997, and 1996. The complete text - including charts, graphs and methodology - of the 1999 software piracy estimates can be accessed at www.bsa.org or www.siia.net/piracy or by calling the contacts listed above. The Software & Information Industry Association (SIIA) is the principal trade association of the software code and information content industry. SIIA represents leading high-tech companies that develop and market software and electronic content for business, education, consumers and the Internet. Hundreds of these companies look to SPA Anti-Piracy, a division of SIIA, to protect their intellectual property rights around the world. Visit the SPA Anti-Piracy homepage at http://www.siia.net/piracy/default.asp. Cases of software piracy should be reported via the Anti-Piracy Hotline (800) 388-7478. Since 1988, the Business Software Alliance (BSA) has been the voice of the world's leading software developers before governments and with consumers in the international marketplace. Its members represent the fastest growing industry in the world. BSA educates computer users on software copyrights; advocates public policy that fosters innovation and expands trade opportunities; and fights software piracy. BSA members include Adobe, Apple Computer, Autodesk, Bentley Systems, CNC Software/Mastercam, Compaq, Corel Corporation, IBM, Intel, Intuit, Lotus Development, Macromedia, Microsoft, Network Associates, Novell, Sybase, Symantec and Walker Digital. BSA websites: www.bsa.org; www.bsa.nopiracy. U.S. Anti-piracy hotline: 1-888-NO PIRACY.

http://www.spa.org/sharedcontent/pr...00/5-24-00.html

	31-10-2001 19:46									#53
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Ok, lame excuse to do something illegal # 126, want to try any of the other 9,999 reasons people use to try to legitimize their illegal activities?

Mainly i use piracy to get games for free or very cheap.

When i really like a game i usually buy it when it goes older.

Only original games i have are:

Colonization: 7,5 euros.
Civ II MP: 25 euros
Masters of Orion 2: 12,5 euros.
Unreal Tournament: 12,5 euros.
Swarm:7,5 euros.

Does any of the americans comdomning warez here know what is the average salary in Russia or in Thailand?!?!?!? Maybe average GNP have something to do with number of illegal stuff and their price in that country.

Even in my loved country most of the working people must work no less than 3 days to get 50 dolars.

This time will be a exception for me buying a original game when it comes out.

	31-10-2001 19:53									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

But in Russia no one bothers to get the original game. They have great pirated software markets.

I remember returning from there with 30+ CDs with the newest games 4 years ago. And it costed me only 90$ or so.

	31-10-2001 19:58									#55
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Middle East & Africa At 60%, this region had the second highest regional piracy rate in the world. South Africa, Israel, and Turkey represent 53% ($255 million) of the total dollar losses in the region. The countries with the highest rate of software piracy in the region were Lebanon (88%), Oman (88%), and Bahrain (82%).

Yeah! It hapeens to me too. When i first think of this region of the world i can't stop thinking that if those poor guys could stop dying from hunger, AIDS and regional wars made with guns sold by us civilized and moral leading world (guess who sells them more guns) they could maybe make me save a penny or two everytime i wanted to buy a CD,DVD,etc.

	31-10-2001 19:59									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Bakunine Mainly i use piracy to get games for free or very cheap. When i really like a game i usually buy it when it goes older. Only original games i have are: Colonization: 7,5 euros. Civ II MP: 25 euros Masters of Orion 2: 12,5 euros. Unreal Tournament: 12,5 euros. Swarm:7,5 euros. Does any of the americans comdomning warez here know what is the average salary in Russia or in Thailand?!?!?!? Maybe average GNP have something to do with number of illegal stuff and their price in that country. Even in my loved country most of the working people must work no less than 3 days to get 50 dolars. This time will be a exception for me buying a original game when it comes out.

Did you ever think that the price of games would change in other countries?

For example Diablo2. US price $40. Price in Korea, $25.

Did you ever think that maybe if prople didn't pirate then the game would be cheaper overall, and especially cheap, yet not free, in countries that make less money than those in the US or other "wealthy" countries?

Say whatever you want but the article from drake says it all, over 50 BILLION lost because of theives.

I'd imagine that if people didn't pirate an expensive game would be $25, not $75, think about it.

	31-10-2001 20:00									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Bakunine Yeah! It hapeens to me too. When i first think of this region of the world i can't stop thinking that if those poor guys could stop dying from hunger, AIDS and regional wars made with guns sold by us civilized and moral leading world (guess who sells them more guns) they could maybe make me save a penny or two everytime i wanted to buy a CD,DVD,etc.

	31-10-2001 20:04									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Eli But in Russia no one bothers to get the original game. They have great pirated software markets. I remember returning from there with 30+ CDs with the newest games 4 years ago. And it costed me only 90$ or so.

And with that mentality is it any wonder why the Russian economy is a joke and is in shambles? If the general mood is to steal something instead of pay for it no wonder they are having such a hard time holding a stable economy.

FOr that matter, with the rest of the world apparently abdicating piracy on such a scale they only have themselves to blame with their own economic troubles. If people don't want to pay for something then they shouldn't ***** when they are out of work because people are stealing merchandise instead of buying it.

Buying and selling is what makes your economy work, not stealing.

	31-10-2001 20:11									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The Civ3 will be available in Poland on 5th December and will cost 99.9 zloty (27 euros). I'm pretty sure I can get it for 1/3 of that price, but I won't.

But... the truth is that I came across Civilization only because my friend gave me a copy.. and that was pirated. Some of these copies didn't even have full Civilopedia. That was years ago and in different reality, but the I begun my adventure with THE GREATEST GAME EVER thanks to piracy. Sad, but true.

	31-10-2001 20:17									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

And lest we forget,

GAMES ARE LUXURIES!

I mean, jeez, it's not like we're arguing moral dilemmas about having to steal bread to live! If people can't afford to buy games, tough! There are a lot of nice things I'd love to have but can't afford--that doesn't give me the right to go around and rip them off. There's a word for people who do that; in Canada, they're called "criminals".

All of these excuses are just feeble attempts by people to rationalise illegal behaviour.