01-11-2001 10:23									#1
	Firaxis Editor Tools - Let's help them by telling them what we want. Increase Your PM Length

Markos said that Firaxis would release better editor tools, but the question remains.

How about a scripting language?

Anyhow, maybe we should help Firaxis make better editor tools by telling them what we expect?

1: Scripting Language

	01-11-2001 10:26									#2
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Look at the tools in Fantastic Worlds.

Put them in Civ III.

Problem solved.

	01-11-2001 10:50									#3
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The editable txt-files look brill so far. Seems like EVERYTHING pretty much is in there. So what we need now is this :


1) advanced scripting language of some sorts, with multiple combined flexible triggers and actions.

2) flexible objectives scoring system, so you can assign a vast number of different victory conditions.

3) flexible combined map/scen editor, that allows placement of cities, units, improvements and civ settings.


Lastly, I think a graphics database would be nice, with more animated leader pictures and units by firaxian artists, but it's nowhere nearly as important as 1-3.

	01-11-2001 10:54									#4
	Little Things Got spare money?

Make the movement rates of Railroads editable
(probably could be done if they allow access to scripting language)

	01-11-2001 11:24									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Wish List

Via the in-game editor

Ability to :

- add extra units (and alter static Unit Graphics easily)
- add in extra unit features a la Civ2-ToT
e.g. "Unit is invisible until it attacks"
"Times x defense against mounted"
"All as road"

- print Modpack Unit List including att/def/move etc. parameters
(easier to determine what has, hasn't been modified as modpack is evolving)
- add in extra techs
- add in extra city improvements & wonders (big and small)
- easily add in extra types of terrain (e.g. Swamp, Forested Hills) and graphics for same.
- alter the Railroad Movement mutiplier
- expand the types and effects of "Impassable terrains"


Also, for scripting language - There should be at least all that was available in Civ 2 ToT Macro language,
plus :
An Event that allows change of all (or a proportion) of terrain tiles of a certain type within a certain area to another type (allows climate change / natural disaster simulations, and seasonal simulations e.g. summer -> winter )

	01-11-2001 13:30									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Addition to the scripting

I'd like to add the ability to locate a unit on the map as well, ie: with a (eg) triggerattacker/unitkilled set by a particular unit, that units co-ordinates can be identified and used in the followup effects.

Plus, please fix triggerattacker so that it resets after the event and doesn't remain locked for the rest of the game - ala the Verne scenario in FW

Also it would be nice to be able to alter unit statistics or city improvements through events, rather than having to save, exit, run batch-file, load save.
ie: researching depleted U shells or somesuch can add 1 to attacking values of arty, armour etc, or techresearched=invisibility gives all/selected units for a certain civ the tot "invisible until attacks" flag on.

(I don't have civ3 so replace FW/ToT references with same from civ3)

Basically - Add in every possible flag/trigger/conditional that you can think of, and then think up new ones and add them too!

More to come when I think of it ...

	01-11-2001 14:40									#7
	Wish List Continued... Suffering from ads?

1. Ability to specify the %s & #s for certain wonder effects - such as changing 75% for SDI to whatever we want.
2. Using the map editor to place specific civ starting locations and edit the content and size of the cities, place units, etc. (aka Civ2 Gold Edition).
3. Option to add another type of road if we wished.
4. Option to keep barbarians (type up to designer, could be modern terrorist) to continue showing up even if entire map has been explored.
5. Ability to import short movies to display for wonders/events (from Civ2, SMAC, etc.). A player can turn these on/off if they want.

	01-11-2001 14:54									#8
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First - could this be our official wish list thread (topped by a mod)?

Things IŽd like to see:

- support for flat maps
- events language, including more and improved commands (compared to civ2)
- much more events space
- all options that the editor not has yet, e.g. free placing of units on the map, specific start locations etc,
- a little tool that can convert ANY anim (that has the right size/res) in these *flc files
- map tool that can convert images into maps, and can read also maps of other games

to be continued...

	01-11-2001 15:31									#9
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- ability to set citizens to produce culture
(I want to create an artist citizen that should became able after the discovery of Free Artistry, but looking at the sceenshots this can't be done)

	01-11-2001 18:34									#10
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My wishlist - I emailed the attached to them yesterday.

Attachment: civ3 editor requests.txt
This has been downloaded 43 time(s).

	01-11-2001 22:19									#11
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1. The ability to ADD CUSTOM CIVs to the playable mix in a STANDARD RANDOM MAP GAME.

2. The ability to employ random maps in scenarios.

	02-11-2001 00:03									#12
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A proper cheatmode with editing options similar to those in Civ2 would come in very handy in playtesting scenarios.

	02-11-2001 06:02									#13
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Brief preface: The editor is WONDERFUL! It KICKS ASS! But I want more power. ^_^

[] More effects for tech advances, including effects that do not appear in the standard game.
* grants one free tech
* increases movement of ships by 1
* increases effect of [any happiness improvement] by 1
* decreases effect of [any happiness improvement] by 1
* adds 1 food to irrigated tiles
* wins the game (Transcendance ^_^)

[] More customizability for city improvements and wonders.
* Adds 1 [food/shield/trade] to [any terrain type/improvement type] (examples: Offshore Platform, add 1 shield to all ocean squares; Superhighways, add 1 trade to all road squares; Tree Farm, add 1 production to all forest squares)
* Adds [X] percent to trade, science or production (rather than being limited to just +50%; example: Museum, +10% science, 4 culture)
* Marco Polo's Embassy effect, grants embassy with all civs
* Statue of Liberty effect, all govs available, limits anarchy to 1 turn (I know, useless for Religious civs, but just include the option, pleeeeease ^_^)
* Old-school Adam Smith's effect, pays maintenance for all 1-gold improvements
* Gives 1 [food/shield/trade/science/happiness] per citizen
* Eliminates danger of global warming (no matter how much pollution there is)
* Gives +2 shields at every city
* +1 [food/trade/production] per city square (examples: King Richard's Crusade, +1 shield in all squares; Merchant Exchange, +1 trade in all squares)
* Doubles the effect of specialists (entertainers, taxmen and scientists)
* Ensures your cities will never rebel due to culture
* 100% protection vs. nukes
* Weak Great Library effect, gives any tech owned by 3 civs
* Pays maintenance for all Workers
* Doubles the effect of Courthouses

More options! More customizability! And of course, the ability to add technologies, improvements, and wonders.

Just because a wonder or improvement isn't in the final game is no reason to keep the options out of the editor.

	02-11-2001 06:24									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Arator 2. The ability to employ random maps in scenarios.

This can already be done -- if a scenario is loaded that includes a custom map, the player is given the choice of whether they want to play on the custom map or generate a random one. If there is no map in the scenario file, they must generate a world with the world chooser screen.


Dan

	02-11-2001 09:18									#15
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More ...

Specifics w.r.t events:-

Actions :-

CREATE/DESTROY RESOURCE would be absolutely invaluable in an events file with the importance of strategic resources

CHANGE OWNER for units/cities - used to represent defections/rebellions etc. (also allow the barbarian flag for these - ie: units going "rogue").

MAKE PEACE/ALLIANCE - Similar to current MAKEAGGRESSION (only the other way around ) - highly useful for changing the political climate in scenarios without negotiation permitted.

INCREASE/DECREASE POPULATION - To represent special events/attacks on cities


Triggers :-

UNIT ATTACKED - to enable special effects BEFORE combat resolution and to possibly invalidate combat resolution.

CITY ATTACKED - Same as above


Conditions :-

IMPROVEMENT/WONDER PRESENT - Associated with CITY ATTACKED above. Effectively a flag for special effects if a certain improvement/wonder is present in the particular city attacked.

UNITKILLED - Allow this condition to enable if a unit is killed by a special (ie: nuclear) attack. Currently (civ2/ToT) nuclear attacks do not enable UNITKILLED.

OR Statement - Enable this for TRIGGERATTACKER UNIT= or OWNER= such that near identical events do not have to be completely repeated for different units/civilizations, thus freeing up valuable event space.

Miscellaneous :-
Event space ( ) - More of it! ToT had events expanded to 100kB for 7 civs. For 16 in civ3 we will need more still!

Flags - Same as above. 32 was nice for 7 Civs. Need more (64 - I presume this was a binary thing?) for 16.
Actually make it 128 - this is a wish list after all

Also to be continued...

	02-11-2001 10:12									#16
	Wish List Continued... Enter the AD-FREE zone

1. Ability to place pine forest (or regular forests) in tundra like the random map editor does. If anyone already knows how to do this let me know.

2. Ability for resources to be randomly placed down (or replaced down) while in the editor. Bonus resources could be given the option for appearance & disappearance ratios too.

3. Allow for more Extreme Worlds to be generatored from the map editor, where perhaps glacier or desert covers 1/3 of the world. Give us the option to select the % for how cold/warm & arid/wet the world is. Water % should vary more as well (30% to 90%). Allows more variety & challenge. Doing it yourself in the editor ruins the experience since you get to know what the map looks like & that takes time.

4. Ability to add Glacier (and their few resources) & have the Glacier blend in with the other terrains as in Civ2 (see problem with C3 Glacier below).

Thanks.

Attachment: glacier1.jpg
This has been downloaded 818 time(s).

	02-11-2001 21:06									#17
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standard resources (game, gold, ect...) and strategic resources (iron, hourses, ect...) should be editable...

ie: placable in the editor... change graphic... and name... change units that require...

	02-11-2001 23:59									#18
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the potential for scenario construction that SMAC had.

	04-11-2001 07:55									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The biggest "flaw" per se is the inability to place units/cities/improvements on the map from the editor, followed by the lack of a event language. Still I'd rather see Firaxis get out bugfixes for Civ3 in the first patch, and add the scenario tools if possible in the first or second patch. As long as its before Christmas, I'm happy..... or probably content..... OK, resisting.... (I've been playing this game too much).....

Must build temple......

	05-11-2001 18:28									#20
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When doing some mod'ing I find it rather annoying to have to manually edit the Civilopedia contents. While the unit stats are automatic, which is nice, there should be a way to edit the Description and the unit "history" (the text that appears when you click the button under it's picture). Same goes for advances and governments.


In the Random Map Generator it should be at least possible in the Editor to fine-tune the occurance of certain tile types along with rivers. That way we could actually smack down the annoying Jungle Fever the auto-generator suffers from, and allow rivers to pleasantly be far less rare (or far more rare, should the type of scenario demand it).

	05-11-2001 22:54									#21
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Sssssssscripting language!!

Other than that, open the CtP2 files, see how adaptable they are, adding reference to individual inter-linked text files, adding graphics as separate files so there are effectivly no limits.

From what I have seen of "the Editor", there seems to be plenty of flags, but the constraits of "changing rather than adding" will piss me off immensely.

FIRAXIS: think adding, not changing!

	06-11-2001 14:04									#22
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Some helpful things that have not yet been mentioned:

1) Since the game operates on a territory basis, like SMAC, it would be good if we could define territories prior to laying out cities (which we should be able to do also). This would allow us, for instance, to put cities in their proper location without having to worry about how borders will change.

2) Along with that, scenario makers should be able to disable certain aspects of culture rating (such as expanding borders) and fine-tune other aspects of the economy, and such (it would be nice to create trade rate imbalances and such)

3) Do not release just one patch. If there is a good dialogue between the community and the designers, it would be great to see regularly updated and tweaked patches

In designing an editor, the designers should understand what scenario-makers are looking for: greater control over aspects of the game. The reason that the scripting language is so heavily demanded is that it gave scenario makers a great deal of control over the flow of the scenario. Unlike a "clockmaker" scenario, where only the groundwork and starting situation is laid out, events allowed scenario creators to more fully bring their vision of a scenario into being. With the new features of Civ III, we will probably have less control over graphics, but we could (i emphasize COULD) end up having better influence over scenarios if the designers come up with a good editor.

	06-11-2001 14:16									#23
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Ooo, also, I would like to see diplomatic triggers. In other words, I want the ability to activate alliances during diplomatic talks. If the U.S. demands that Russia remove Nukes from Cuba, and the Russians refuse, that should be enough to trigger various alliances to be activated.

Another thing: allow scenario makers to design more espionage options (or eliminate some). It would be helpful to have a wider set of options given to us by the designers, but it would be the most helpful if we could be given the capability to design our own espionage.

I'd also like to see some disaster events. For instance, I'd like to be able to trigger epidemics, nuclear accidents, brownouts, that kind of thing.

It would also be nice to control land improvement benefits more. For instance, we should be able to tinker with various improvements (or be able to add improvements of our own). If we could add improvements, that would be super! We could make suburb improvements, and such...it would be neat.

	06-11-2001 19:39									#24
	AI Brain Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

After seeing some flaws within how the AI does it's Diplomacy (see my thread AI Diplomacy Flaws) I definitely want to be able to choose/select how much the AI values things when they are in a negotiation. There could be some basic default numbers that we could use as reference, but we should have an option to raise or lower these values as well as select what the AI won't buy and won't sell. Any other options allowing us to alter the AI brain would be great.

	08-11-2001 10:49									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

1.Peace/War Locks. We should have the ability to not only say which civilizations are at Peace & War with each other when the game starts, but also the ability to lock those conditions in for the entire course of the game. This would be good for Military Alliances as well.

2.Unit Wonders - An ability for units being "1-of-a-kind". Thus if someone wanted to make a Camelot scenario & when a certain knowledge (tech) was discovered they could summon Merlin. But if Merlin is given this "1-of-a-kind" ability it would allow it so only 1 Merlin would exist.

	08-11-2001 12:04									#26
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Everything in Fantastic Worlds should be included, but some things should be tweaked.

For instance, there should be a "change unit" option that would modify all existing types of unit for a civilization...a sort of leonardo's workshop option

There should also be a "create city" event that would give us more power to guide the course of a particular civ's expansion

There should also be an option of forcing a civilization to split and specifiying which cities would split to whom

In addition, creators should have the option of setting queues for cities we create

	10-11-2001 00:08									#27
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On just about all of the "flags" there is no real customization possible. For instance you can tick the flag Reduce Corruption...and that's it.

Most flags would benefit from greater customizability. For instance I want to make a Temple decrease corruption a little, Police Station reduce it more, Courthouse do it quite a bit, and the wonder Chichen Itza to do it even more effectively!

The problem now is there is one single flag, and to make it worse Reduce Corruption isn't even a great wonder flag possability! It's ok if that's not possible in the editor, but at least with the scripting language or in text-files it could be editable.


Like someone above said, what all of us mod/scenario makers want can be summed up in one sentance:

We want more control.

We need to be able to make little changes here and there, which is how a true "artist" goes about the craft of mod-making. It is not the big changes which make the mod special and the game more enjoyable so much as the little tweaks, which together add up to an altogether different and more enjoyable experience.

Giving us nothing but 1 "replace" flag and less than a dozen checkboxes to control what happens is like handing Di Vinci a cutip and telling him to "have at it".

Sorry, but there is only so far we can go with a cutip. *squeak, squeak*

	10-11-2001 06:40									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I want only 1 thing... The ability to 'add':
governments
eras
units
civ advances
civilizations
terrain
resources
& improvements.

The biggest thing I wanted to do was stretch out the early indutrial age by adding biplanes & a few more techs, create new 'air units' like the attack heli (cobra/apache/etc gunships), add in some more unique units as well... Like the German 'Air Ace'/'Barnstormer' Biplane, American 'sniper'/true rifleman (ala war of independance), French machine gunners, & more... But using the editors I can't add units... I (currently) don't even want to change graphics, just the stats & abilities to create a new unit...

Also I'd like you to think about Civ specific wonders (aka only 1 civ can build a certain wonder). This could make a Civ more than just a combination of special unit type X, features Y&Z, & initial tech a/b/etc...

I do like the above idea fo custom '1 of a kind' units though...

Come on Fraxis you know I haven't put down CIv 3 since last friday night!
Give a guy a bone, Please?

Last edited by Shadow99 on 10-11-2001 at 06:48

	10-11-2001 08:18									#29
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SCRIPTING LANGUAGE
otherwise, how can you even make a "MOD" ?? After all MODign a game means well... MODifying it! Not just altering a few unit attributes!!! That's ELEMENTARY!

No seriously, without scripting language or ways to handle events uniquely you cant make mods. And the ability to alter ANY variable without silly limits (i.e. did you know you cant make techs take longer then 32 turns to research?!?) and no more of these flags for everything!! (i.e. I don't want that little flag that says "reduces corruption" whien you edit a courthouse, I want a text box where i can give the courthouse effectiveness a value _I_ want! CtP:2's SLIC was very nice, id be very happy with something like that, but of course, expanding on it would be even nicer! I've got so many cool ideas for mods but they just cant be done with the tight bindings by the current editting capabilities...

	11-11-2001 05:43									#30
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In addition to the x2 defence vs. Mounted, I'd also like a tag for x2 defence vs. foot soldiers (For archers!).

As Plutark mentioned, the ability to alter the civlopedia from the editor would be awesome.

More choices for the goverment editor... such as a "Maximum Corruption %" that makes corruption/waste % > Max, = max. IF the city is connected. The ability to use "Martial Law" (kinda like nerve stapiling) for the next 10 turns reduce # of unhappy/happy citizens by # of military police (in addition to normal effect) (or # unhappy if less). More variations of Communal corruption rate (or make it a special condition available to all corruption rates).

I want the ability to allow cities to move surplus food from one city to a city with a shortage that it is connected to. This can be a goverment special ability. Ho it works is simple, if there is a shortage in one city it takes food from a connected city that has a surplus. Food is given to those with the greatest shortages first, in a tie the older (appears first in the list) city gets surpluses first. Food is taken from cityies with the biggest surplus, if a tie it takes food from the bigger cities, or if still a tie then from the younger (appears last on the list) cities. Call it Centralized Food Network or something.

I want to be able to make multiple techs allow resources to appear.

I want to allow certain techs/improvements remove the need for certain resources... i.e., Fuel Cells remove dependancy on Oil.

I want to be able to put cruise missiles on nuke subs, aegis and carriers.

Allow us to increase the operation range of aircraft to greater than 8.

A improvement ability that allows unlimited airlifts.

Allow us to determine the effects (food/commerce/production) of rail for each terrain type and improvement... so we can give +1 shields to rails in farms if we desire.

Allow us the ability to control what terrains can cause damage/disease.

Allow us to create more types of "bonus" terrain types... Bonus tundras have +1 shield/ bonus forrests have +1 food/ etc.

Allow us control over new terrains/tile improvements and terraforming... plus allow us to enter individual stats for each forest type and choose which terrain they can appear on (i.e., Tropical Forests only on grasslands)... and the way they appear in random maps.

The ability for some units to retaliate vs. air strikes.

A unit ability that gives it double normal fortify bonuses (+50% instead of +25%), and a unit ability that gives no fortify bonus when the command is given (useful for many ships).

Allow us to add new road types (Highways or mag-lev).

Allow us to make some terrains that you can't build roads on... while keeping the ability to build a road but no bonus commerce.

Allow us to make specialists create commerce in addition to tax/luxury/science. This commerce is split by your settings and is affected by any city improvements built and corruption. And a government ability that doubles the commerce (not luxury/sci/tax) produced by citizens. Same goes for food and production.

Airbases, outposts (Like a fort, but no defence bonus but increases sight radius of unit by 1 square (still not over mountains), gives 3 sight on hills/mountains) and Radar stations.

Sight radius stat for units.

Units that treat all as road should still get RAIL benefit.

Controls over the number of food needed for pop growth.

Control over the # of shields from disbanding

The ability to add more bonus resources (more strategic/luxury would be nice too, give us room for 12 of thoose).

Allow Offsore Platforms to "gain access" to coastal oil if it appears anywhere in the city view. Or to allow workers in transports to create a colony on this oil (looks like an oil rig).

FiX nuke plants so they can use fresh water or salt water (would be nice if they were seperate tags)

It would be nice if firaxis created an ART RESOURCE for the editor with ready to use units (full animation), heads, and more and released it with the expansion pack.

Let us choose which tech allows irrigation w/o access to fresh water.

A tag that determines if a bombarding unit can 1) Kill Land Units, 2) Kill land units in fortress/city, 3) Kill Naval Units (otherwise it can only reduce it to 1 HP)

An Escort Bomber Air mission

The ability to start a civ with an extra unit.

The ability to give Military civs the ability to support 25% extra troops for free or reduce the cost of units by 20%. And the ability to modify (and add) other civ charistics.



That's all I can think of for the moment