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dansch
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Another scenario designer weighs in on the side of a more sophisticated editor.
I am not terribly disturbed that it did not ship in the first version. I will not even be unhappy if it ends up being part of a future retail add-on. I just want to se it happen.
On the list of strategy games Civilization (the series) is simply and easily number one. Part of the reason is its "legs." Those legs are exceptionally long due to the scenario editor and scenarios resulting from the player community. I sincerely hope that will continue to be an important part of the Civ experience. I know I got perhaps more pleasure out of playing with scenarios designs than I did from those "just one more turn" sessions that had me draggging through work the next day innumerable times.
Civ III has already ruined a few nights of sleep for me... no complaints on the game itself.
Dan Scheltema
Slash & Burn, and a couple others I never quite published
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ravagon
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Australia
Sep 1999
time: 13:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoek
Okay, but Civ II had some basic tools. Scripting language is important, but Civ III doesn't even have the basics needed for a scenario! That's a real slap in the face to the whole scenario-creation community.
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Exactly! One would expect later generations of a game to expand and improve upon those previous. W.r.t Customizing/scenarios/editting this one doesn't. Scenario makers basically don't seem to have the ability to do anything at all at present. A giant step backwards.
quote:
and I for one am not going to buy it until I see a good editor patch.
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Ditto for me. I wouldn't even have finished my first game of civ3 before at least trying out the editting capabilities. There just doesn't seem to be enough incentive for me to buy it while such a large (potential) portion of the game is absent.
Certainly not without at least knowing what is planned for it in the near future.
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Hoek
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of knock-you-off-your-ass chili
Jan 1970
time: 00:16
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Here's the latest "developer's notes" from the Civ 3 website:
quote:
By Jeff Morris
Firaxis Games
One of the enduring strengths of the Civilization franchise has been its ability to be customized by the fans. It's really a matter of 'resolution'. Whereas the developers of the core game take upon themselves the challenge of surveying the entirety of human history, the fans can render specific periods of time in as much detail as they can muster. This versatility is a real marquee feature, transforming a title about mankind's civilizations into a gaming construction kit for any setting imaginable.
When we approached the editing tools for Civilization III, we were determined to offer a contemporary customization environment. In previous incarnations of this franchise, users were capable of making radical changes to the game systems, but often needed to locate and edit text files to do so. In Civilization III these changes are still possible, but can now be made within an application that follows the interface rules of standard Windows programs. This editor not only allows you to alter game elements such as advances, civilizations, units and wonders (to name a few), but also includes a robust map editor. Using the editor, users are empowered to create scenarios that we never dreamt of during development.
The editors in Civilization III are only the beginning. Based on feedback from the mod and scenario community we will make additional improvements and incorporate new features. The editors are just tools, ones that the fan community needs to make meaningful by creating new scenarios with. As those in the 'trenches' of creating new content run into limitations, we'll work on eradicating those barriers. Firaxis is very interested in Civilization III having an active mod community, but need to know where our efforts are best spent. Together we can make Civilization III a potent platform for not only exploring factual history, but also your creativity and interests. |
and here is a screenshot of the editor:
From the looks of it, they built the editor into the system, and actually used it themselves to set the rules for the game. The interface of the editor is very nice, and it seems to do a very nice job at easing up text editing. However, it's clear that the designers of the game were on a strict time budget. You know, now that I think about it, it might be possible that they held off on editing changes until they got a better idea of what kinds of things to include. I don't know, though.
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Hans2
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Mondovi, WI USA
May 1999
time: 05:16
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There is nothing wrong with the editor except for two things:
1) You can't place cities on the map
2) You can't place units on the map
If I had to add a third thing, it would be setting civ specific starting locations. Everything else is great. But WTF?! I mean, it is IMPOSSIBLE to create a 'scenario' without these two abilities. To not include them because they didn't know if their 'efforts would best be spent there' is plain foolish. Do you think we're idiots? I mean, come on guys, this stuff is so basic.
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Grim Legacy
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War Machine, Barbaric King, Relentless, Remorseless, Guiltless and Unclean!
Aug 2001
time: 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Hans2
There is nothing wrong with the editor except for two things:
1) You can't place cities on the map
2) You can't place units on the map
If I had to add a third thing, it would be setting civ specific starting locations. Everything else is great. But WTF?! I mean, it is IMPOSSIBLE to create a 'scenario' without these two abilities. To not include them because they didn't know if their 'efforts would best be spent there' is plain foolish. Do you think we're idiots? I mean, come on guys, this stuff is so basic. |
SCRIPTING!?!
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Barnacle Bill
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Somewhere on the wine dark sea
Oct 2001
time: 00:16
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Another issue that I really, really want addressed is the ability to restrict techs to certain civs and deny them to others. You could do that in Civ2, by assigning the tech a prereq of "no" but then giving it to the civ(s) you wanted to have a different tech tree (and using it as a prereq for others). Unfortunately, the AI's would trade this stuff and screw it up, so you also had to prevent the AI's from talking to each other. That last was a limitation I had hoped to see fixed for Civ3. Instead, the "no" prereq setting is absent, plus if you give a civ a free starting tech it doesn't really get it until it has all the prereqs so it wouldn't work anyway. So, in Civ3 there is no way to do it at all. This is a step backwards. It is somewhat mitigated by the new ability to limit units to select civs, but what about other stuff (buildings, governments, etc...)?
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H Tower
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did the letter get emailed to firaxis? they might not have seen it in all the flood of civ3 threads created after the game was released.
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Jason
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Halifax, NS, Canada
Aug 1999
time: 05:16
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quote:
They'll only participate in discussions in which they can look good. It's not communication, it's marketing. |
Suddenly everything anyone from this company has ever said is "marketing" because they are pointedly not talking about 2 features you want included? Fascinating interpretation.
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Grim Legacy
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War Machine, Barbaric King, Relentless, Remorseless, Guiltless and Unclean!
Aug 2001
time: 06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoek
Scripting language is nothing without the ability to place units and cities |
I did not say otherwise.
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07-11-2001 22:32
, an answer from a firaxian would be great... 
)
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