13-11-2001 21:22									#1
	NA back to their old ways of raping, excecuting and pillaging Increase Your PM Length

According to CNN, the NA has excecuted hundreds of people in Mazar-e Sharif. Raping and looting also have been reported there. The UN is raising alarm about the situation.

So to all people here, like Giani, who said the NA wouldn't revert to it's old ways have been wrong.

Also, it is clear they can't be trusted. They promised not to take Kabul as the Americans and Pakistani requested. However, they couldn't restrain themselves and did take the city, even after Bush has yesterday told them not to move in.

It is very clear the NA should not be trusted in any way, and it seems the Americans and their allies are making the same mistake they made in Kosovo. Letting local thugs do the fighting so they won't suffer any casualties themselves, a cowardly and very dangerous method, that will only make matters worse. We saw what happened in Kosovo, when the UCK was supported by NATO. After the Serbs left the UCK took over as the "police force" and made things only worse by attacking Macedonia. Now in Afghanistan the coalition is making the same mistake by supporting a bunch of war criminals do all this. They are wanted by the UN for war crimes, but Bush still calls them "friends".

I find this whole situation very disturbing, and it doesn't seem like the Coalition is doing anything to stop the NA. Of course, the Coalition shouldn't have aided the NA from the begining, but they don't want casualties of their own and they want a quick end to the war without looking ahead at all. This lack of political insight in the situation is very sad indeed. They didn't learn anything from what happened in former Yugoslavia.

I really hope some officials will be fired for this, or resign.

	13-11-2001 21:26									#2
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Sad. Thank God we weren't fighting this war for the betterment of the Afghani people.

	13-11-2001 21:29									#3
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Sad but true.

	13-11-2001 21:31									#4
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Bush and Blair have said on several occasions that it actually was one of the objectives.

	13-11-2001 21:34									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Mark L Bush and Blair have said on several occasions that it actually was one of the objectives.

I thought you said that you didn't believe in propaganda, Mark L. This is a war for revenge. Probably one that could be fought in a better way, I'll grant you that, but we most certainly aren't doing this to liberate the Afghani people.

	13-11-2001 21:45									#6
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quote: I thought you said that you didn't believe in propaganda, Mark L.

Course I dont. But I can tell you people have not forgotten the promises made.

quote: This is a war for revenge. Probably one that could be fought in a better way, I'll grant you that, but we most certainly aren't doing this to liberate the Afghani people.

The Great Game huh? With Afghani civilians as the pawns. Quite sick, and I do hope some officials will resign over this, or get fired.

	13-11-2001 21:52									#7
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As has been established in This Thread , Markl knows Jackschitt about that region of the world.

	13-11-2001 22:06									#8
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I'm really wondering when western governements will finally start caring about people from other countries. It's really sad.

Is Iraq a better place after the Gulf War?
Is Kosovo a better place after the Kosovo War?
Will Afghanistan be a better place after the Afghan War?

The answer is no to all three questions. In Iraq, Sadam still opresses his people, and the combination of the sanctions and Sadam's policies makes things a lot worse for the Iraqi people now, than before the Gulf War started. In Kosovo the so called ethnic cleansening was very small compared to the "official" numbers given to the media. And the UCK started oppressing the Serbs there, and started attacking Macedonia. All cause we, the west, supported them. Same is going on in Afghanistan.

I really get sick about the lack of respect for human lives by the "good guys". We all know the Taliban is terrible, but the NA clearly isn't much better. Their rule of Afghanistan has been terrible in the past, and won't be much better now (as is obvious).

When will the west finally start caring about others? "We" claim to be so civilized and so good for other less fortionate people. It is true, "we" don't do the killing and raping ourselves (well, after Vietnam "we" stopped doing it), we just let our "friends" do the dirty work and then let them get away with it. Can someone tell me how many Serbians have been arrested for war crimes? And how many Albanian Kosovars? Nuff said.

quote: As has been established in This Thread , Markl knows Jackschitt about that region of the world.

LMAO!!!! It's a Star Trek thread, LOL. Nothing I wrote in that thread is serious. Even you must be able to see that when you read a thread called "The Eugenic Wars have started". Or do you actually believe I was serious about believing the Eugenics Wars have actually started? That would sure be funny

	13-11-2001 22:09									#9
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Hey Mark! I kid! and I kid because I love....



Actually, all youse Commies will be the first up against th' Wall when the Revolution comes. i Viva NorteAmerica!

	13-11-2001 22:15									#10
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quote: Hey Mark! I kid! and I kid because I love....

Love you too, Lonestar sexy

quote: Actually, all youse Commies will be the first up against th' Wall when the Revolution comes. i Viva NorteAmerica!

Marx in reverse?

	13-11-2001 22:43									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Mark L Marx in reverse?

See my Karl Marx Thread, Mark

	14-11-2001 07:36									#12
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MarkL sometimes you just make sh1t up! Have you ever posted a report word for word?

I've had CNN on contstantly the past few, days, and the reports of looting were about people LOOTING TALIBAN GOVERNEMENT OFFICES.

Maybe you should also mention on CNN how the people were shouting, "Death to the Taliban" as they fled the city.

The NA haven't had the greatest of reputation, but you might try posting the actual words people say rathar than putting a spin on it and then posting fiction.

	14-11-2001 07:42									#13
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I would rank the Taliban who were dragged through the streets and ripped up as remarkably restrained for the typical Afghan victory...

and like I said in another thread nothing made me happier than seeing the men able to shave and women take off their burqas...

	14-11-2001 07:50									#14
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NA took the bulk of casuaties. Shouldn't they be compensated by letting some anger out on the Talibans? It's better than US Army doing the killing.

	14-11-2001 07:53									#15
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I too thought like the foreign brainwashed MarkL about the NA, then I saw news reports of men shaving their beards, women taking off their traditional dress, people listening to music and celebrating on the streets. I realized we just freed them from the worst. NA Is better than the Taliban, the Taliban is closer to Holland.

	14-11-2001 07:56									#16
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quote: the Taliban is closer to Holland

	14-11-2001 07:56									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Bob Dornan the Taliban is closer to Holland.

Absolut Dornan

	14-11-2001 08:10									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I've had CNN on contstantly the past few, days, and the reports of looting were about people LOOTING TALIBAN GOVERNEMENT OFFICES.

CNN is not the same as CNN International. One is respected news agency which tries to report facts more objectively, the other is for us Americans. I always wondered why the Israelis were talking about how pro-Palestinian CNN was when to me it was terribly pro-Israeli. A hah! Two different networks!

Kinda like BBC and BBC America, or Guiness Stout and the stuff they call Guiness Stout in America. We get the watered down stuff cause we can't handle the real stuff.

To be fair to you, however, the report of the massacre in Mazar-i-Sharif is of 100 Taliban prisoners. The NA has a habit of killing prisoners of war, which is a war crime, btw. I'm not surprised, and I have no love for the Taleban, but this always comes back to bite us in the butt. In 20 years, some Afgani kid, whose family was killed in this war, is gonna drop a mortar round on the White House.

I hadn't heard reports of rape, but it wouldn't surprise me. The NA are in many ways worse than the Taleban.

	14-11-2001 08:21									#19
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The NA, for the most part, seem to be killing Arab and Pakistani Taliban fighters. The Pashtun Taleban (ever notice US media spells it with an 'i' while the Brits use an 'e') seem to have the option of switching sides.

	14-11-2001 08:25									#20
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Markl thugs or no thugs the right way to do things is starting it also involves allowing the people to do their own sorting out. At least this way morons can not accuse them of setting up a puppet government as that excuse was getting old. So now what markl you have an idea lets hear it? Continue to let people suffer? send in your army? how about castro he could have cleaned it up real quick I would like to hear it markl you seem to think you know more that the entire international community so shoot...

	14-11-2001 08:25									#21
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Well, what did anyone expect? The Taleban summarily execute lots of people when they take an area, too. Lots of "Taleban" fighters currently aren't particularly loyal to Taleban's "ideals" - the armed thugs are the same no matter who they fight for at the moment. That's something that hasn't changed going back to the days of Afghan tribal warfare.

So, MarkL - are you saying an all-foreign US force should be fighting on the ground, after we first fight the NA to get them out of the way, and thereby lose basing rights with Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, rendering the whole point moot?

Or should we just let bin Laden alone, and let the Taleban continue imposing their cleansing "vision?"

You guys always have all the answers, so I'd like to hear what yours is, for once?

There is no nice clean solution.

	14-11-2001 08:33									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Kyle The NA, for the most part, seem to be killing Arab and Pakistani Taliban fighters. The Pashtun Taleban (ever notice US media spells it with an 'i' while the Brits use an 'e') seem to have the option of switching sides.

They don't like foreign invaders as enemies. (as allies is just fine as long as convenient)

Also, the psychology is different. The "Afghan-arabs" and Pakistanis have no side to switch to - they are committed volunteer fighters, who can not go back home without facing the wrath of their own governments, unless they sneak through. Treating them with brutality discourages more from coming in, and demotivates those that are still around.

Allowing the Pashtun and other native Taleban fighters to change loyalties encourages them to do so - most are not committed fighters, but guys who needed a paying job, and they have no loyalty to the Taleban cause.

Technically (I think someone brought up the "war crimes" bit) the non-Afghani Taleban fighters are considered foreign mercenaries, and thus they have virtually no Geneva convention rights. Mercenaries are not looked kindly upon in international law related to warfare.

	14-11-2001 08:55									#23
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So let them shave their beards, and air guitar Clapton.

Ask me if I care.

	14-11-2001 09:29									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker MarkL sometimes you just make sh1t up! Have you ever posted a report word for word? I've had CNN on contstantly the past few, days, and the reports of looting were about people LOOTING TALIBAN GOVERNEMENT OFFICES. Maybe you should also mention on CNN how the people were shouting, "Death to the Taliban" as they fled the city. The NA haven't had the greatest of reputation, but you might try posting the actual words people say rathar than putting a spin on it and then posting fiction.

To be fair, I would be shouting Death To The Taliban too, if I knew the NA was comming in right after them.

	14-11-2001 09:32									#25
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Taliban or Taleban?

	14-11-2001 12:03									#26
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This threads just goes to show how deluded some leftists get. What they don't seem to realize is that Civil Wars are never clean times, and in modern civil wars, all sides get their hands dirty. And thus whenever we get involved in a situtation and we assist one side, they blame those atrocities on the CIA and moan about how horrible the USA is.

In the real world, if you want to get something done, you have to get your hands dirty sometimes. It is unrealastic to expect one side in any civil war to show full and complete respect for human rights, that wasn't even the case in the US civil war.

And by the way, Mark, isn't your country also involved in helping the NA?

	14-11-2001 12:37									#27
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MarkL you're just desperate for some **** to throw. But we don't care what you think. You can get buttlock for all we care.

Earth to Mark. We are attacking the Taleban for sponsooring terrorists who attacked us. We wouldn't be in Afghanistan otherwise.

	14-11-2001 12:41									#28
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hahahahaha "buttlock"

	14-11-2001 13:08									#29
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Unimportant but the guiness stout we getin the US, has more alcohol per volume, just to let you know, so it aint watered down. (It is thinner however)

	14-11-2001 14:03									#30
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"You can get buttlock for all we care"

LOL GP always gives us the straight ****!