15-11-2001 06:04									#1
	Real World Map - Updated Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

6-01-02

I've added a player start tool by Gramphos. See http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=37749

All the Civs should start in their correct locations, if you use this tool.

It's very simple to use. It includes a "cpt" file, a "readme" file, and the start locations marked as "earth256". The readme that Gramphos made should explain it. I figured it out and I'm pretty much a computer idiot.




5-01-02

I suspect the server change wiped out my last attempt to update here goes:

Terrain changes have been made to try and limit cities in desets and tundra (and therefore the total number of cities in the game). Tundra and desert provide no food even with irrigation. You can no longer plant trees on tundra. Let me know how this works.



VERSION 2.3

7-12-01

Each civ now has atleast 40 cities. Some have up to 60.

Tech rate is now 340, as some have suggested this seems to work better.


VERSION 2.2

26-11-01

This combines 2 maps:

Earth [Real-Cities]
Earth [Real-Terrain]

The first places grassland where modern day cities are. The more grassland the larger the city.

The latter places grassland where I believe it occurs in the real world.


Quick summary:

size is 256x256. The map was not "freehanded". Measurements were taken. It's taken from a Robinson Projection.

There are 22 of each strategic resource, 11 of each luxury. Resource locations were researched.

Incans replace Iroquois.

You will need to build Istanbul to get out of the Black sea. You will need to build Panama City and the a city for the Suez canal to cross those areas. I try to avois land bridges where possible. Exceptions are Italy to Sicily and some of the Japanese Islands, mainly to make those areas look better.

Enjoy.

Attachment: earth 256.zip
This has been downloaded 3803 time(s).

Last edited by Selanne on 07-01-2002 at 03:37

	15-11-2001 10:06									#2
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omigod!

It's huge!

Looks terrific at first blush. Incredible detail on the river systems. Can't find any obvious errors at a glance, but I'll let you know when I dare to play on this monster. Sicily/Italy is not as pretty as the rest of Europe...but wow...the rest of Europe/Med/Near East sure looks good, and you don't even have to short-change the rest of the world to do it.

I'm wondering if it might be a tad light on hills/mountains...there sure is a lot of attractive green space out there.

I was having some trouble finding horses. A couple of resource locations also struck me as odd (ivory in Russia, incense in Italy, spice in Croatia). Are these proxies for something else? Or have you really finished assigning resources yet? Do you recall how many of the luxury and strategic resources you put on this monster? And how clumpy are the luxury resources?

I notice you're not using the flood plain terrain tile that much. It looks like you're often choosing to use grass and plains tiles, instead, along portions of major river systems (Indus, Tigris/Eurphrates, Nile). I'm curious as to why?

I wonder if it might be better to tweak some movement rates in the rules (esp. sea movement rates) in order to compensate for the size of this thing.

Again...WOW!

	15-11-2001 11:06									#3
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Each resource appears 15 times on the map, relatively evenly distributed. There should be a clump of three of each resource on the map. May change the distribution later as I wasn't going for absolute accuracy.

Just couldn't get Italy/Sicily to work properly without bumping into Greece or tunisia.

The Flood Plains/ Hills/Mountains aren't used as much as I could because my focus was to create patches of Grassland so it would be easy to identify where the real world cities went. It's a system I got into while making civ 2 maps.

Horses in Europe are in Spain (1) and Russia/ Kazakhstan (1-near the Caspain). Theres a group of three of them in Mongolia.

Any further comments would be appreciated.

	15-11-2001 13:25									#4
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Good work. I noticed...

1.You kept the tech rate the same at 200. Since this is a larger map you should increase this number accordingly. 300 would be more accurate.

2.You lowered the "distance from civs" to 10. This makes it more likely Civs will start closer to each other. You don't want 2 civs starting both in Japan do you? 30 for a map this size would be fine... you could go much higher tho.

3.You lowered the "optimal number of cities (corruption) to 20". This will make corruption excessively and madly rappant on a map this size. Leaving it at 32 would make corruption higher than a normal game (and many feel corruption is already high for a normal game). I would recommend raising this number to 50 for a map this size.

___________________

Other suggestions...

I'm from Arizona. Numerous illegal Mexican alliens die every year trying to sneak into the US while crossing the desert between Mexico & the US. In your map there is very little desert there (nice plush grasslands & plains instead). The mountains (the RockyMountains) in Arizona should be connected - not be seperated into single ones set alone.

Overall the shape of the US is good, but the terrain types for the areas need work.

	15-11-2001 18:43									#5
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Hmmn. I'll look at Arizona. Problem is there are too many big cities in the US SW fro the terrain. If I make the terrain too accurate, Phoenix, LA etc don't have much grassland/plains to grow.

On the Editor: The options for number of cities for corruption was set at 200. The others I can fix.

Last edited by Selanne on 15-11-2001 at 18:52

	16-11-2001 00:05									#6
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In the options it has the following for the World Sizes:
Small (80x80)- Tech Rate: 100
Standard (100x100)- Tech Rate: 120
Large (140x140)- Tech Rate: 160
Huge (180x180)- Tech Rate: 200
With a map this size (255x255) a Tech Rate somewhere between 250-350 would be more accurate.

Regarding SW Growth - I would look towards the Colorado River. Irrigated Desert River (FloodPlains) provide 4 Food, which is better than even irrigated grasslands (3 food). Perhaps a mix of atleast 50%desert & 50%grasslands/plains? Game (resource) in the RockyMountains (and hills) would work too. Mexico, Nevada, California, Arizona, & New Mexico do have desert tho.

	16-11-2001 06:02									#7
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In the Editor I changed the "small" size to "Ultra" 256x256. Do the editor changes not get saved with the map? Can you alter the settings once you get the map?

I'll look at the suggested terrain changes later. Maybe I'll make a map that accurately reflects terrain at the expense of cities instead of the reverse.

	16-11-2001 23:57									#8
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GW!

Give this baby a little more polishing, and you can count on me using it almost all the time.

At first glance: I suggest you put som iron in Scandinavia, or in Sweden - to be exact.
(The only place I looked at the resources )

That is, IF you are going to do some more work with this one, when it comes to accurate terrain and resources.

I think that I'm not the only one the preffers to play on an "accurate" earth map... or?

	17-11-2001 04:54									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Selanne In the Editor I changed the "small" size to "Ultra" 256x256. Do the editor changes not get saved with the map? Can you alter the settings once you get the map?

The changes did save. I only listed what the game-given "tech rates" were to demonstrate that a larger tech rate is directly related to a larger map.

	19-11-2001 05:10									#10
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I just felt an urge to *bump* this one...

	19-11-2001 18:29									#11
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"Polished" version is coming. Researched resources and modified terrain.

	19-11-2001 19:14									#12
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wow this map is HUGH I love playing on bigger maps thanks keep up the good work

	19-11-2001 19:33									#13
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I'm the guy who made the SMAC earth map. I'm known as Geography Boy to my friends. Your map has earned the 100% Sparky seal of approval. Excellent job. It looks like you took this straight out of an atlas.

Sorry ZEB, I think he has you beat!

PS Can't help but nag a teeny bit -- where's the Tiber!

Again, great job.

	20-11-2001 07:25									#14
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The Tiber, good point. With that land the Romans do need help. I'll make sure it makes it into version 2. And thanks for the compliment.

	20-11-2001 10:41									#15
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I made a version 1.01 of your map. If you're interested, I removed horses from the Americas, slightly refined the Great Lakes and Britain (I mean very slightly!), put more oil in Venezuela, and added starting locations for all the Civs I have always thought should be in (namely, the Turks, Mongols, Spanish, Arabs, Vikings, and Pheonicians).

	20-11-2001 12:48									#16
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Resource commentary:

Canada, the world's largest uranium supplier, on this map has almost no uranium.

Not sure about that ivory in mexico and australia.

I think that the Carribean needs love. No real reason to colonize it. In reality, there'll all about cash crops, mainly sugar cane and tobacco. Could maybe put some spices in.

Alaska needs some oil.

Horses originated in Egypt AFAIK, and Egypt also really needs them for its War Chariot.

England should have some iron.

That's about it.

I have to say this is the best looking computer game world map I've seen, I think, period! Very detailed, very geographically precise.

	21-11-2001 06:09									#17
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In case you missed it above version 2.0 is here.

	21-11-2001 10:04									#18
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more:
salpeter always there is where humans or animals are, ask chemicals.
so salpeter must be much more overall. (How do you think the 30years war was possible?)

Europe missing/wrong coal + iron + oil
How do you think the 1st world war was possible
All alumunium is placed wrong.

	21-11-2001 10:46									#19
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by Sparky
I'm the guy who made the SMAC earth map. I'm known as Geography Boy to my friends.

Map was fine, but lot of mistakes you made for recourses and relations of distances in Europe and Asia. So I had to correct it for SMAC that time.
But it was a good base.

	21-11-2001 11:42									#20
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The map is taken from the Robinson Projection. The Aluminum, coal, iron and oil resources are based on a resource map found in a Rand McNally Atlas. Uranium and Gems are based on an online map. Couldn't find a map for Saltpeter, or the other resources and luxeries. Read articles and online Encyclopedias providing for general locations, which I used for placement. Not every coal/oil/iron/etc location appears on my map. I limited it to 21 for strategic resources. If game play indicated this is too much or too little, I'll change it.

	21-11-2001 12:08									#21
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correct the Alps, they are much closer to the Middle Sea and more wide, no way through from Italy to north, only by ways along the coast to west or east

Salpeter, the permanent problem. It's not a recource (Don't know what idiot did create that idea.) Salpeter has to been close to every starting point at least, or better so much everywhere where one may build a city.
Salpeter is there where Humans and enemies are (made by our excrements and Urin in history!!!!!) So you can't find in any atlas/map sources for Salpeter, it's isnt one in fact.

Germany one of the biggest recources of brown and black coal has, not only one little point, 4 different positions.

North Spain: Pyrinee Mountains are a closed line from west to east, only a way at middle sea to north
then nearby complete spain is forest in history.

One more point: place the ilands of Azores (and maybe some other like Haway) as they had been until today a main strategic point for the transit from Europe tu America by air. Without these ilands in hand of US Hitler had win his 2nd world war as the air way had been otherwise via Alaska.

Black Sea East side: Biggest Oil recource of the world!!

	21-11-2001 14:41									#22
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I compared the new and old versions side-by side. It looks like you tweaked almost every square on the map, adding forests and grasslands, a few mountains, and some minor costal changes.

Recommendations:
The modifies rules causes the tech tree to appear messed up in the actual game (not sure if this was fixed in 2.0)

Good job removing ivory from most of the world, but the Americas originally had no horses either. If they want them, they'll have to trade.

Venuzela is the US's largest source of oil, yet there isn't any oil there on the map.

Overall, the map has much more grassland than before, and far fewer plains. I'm afraid this might make the world far more hospitable than it actually is. You may be better going for the overall plains/grasslands mix from version 1 (especially in Europe and maybe in China). As ZEB also pointed out, plains make much better looking coastines than grasslands. The grassland coasts often look bloated.

Prussia has very poor soil, and used to be called the "sandbox of Europe." Likewise, as you put in version2, Spain is much drier than France (this is especially visible from Space). Thanks for noting this. I'm not sure Korea has so much inabitable space, though.

France's Loire River Valley is missing, as well as the Seine. You have plenty of room to include both.

Mongolia probably should have the Selenga River. I believe that Karakhortum was situated between two of its tributaries.

Does England have horses natively? I think so, but need to check.

The Egyptians invented wine, but they have no wines! (BTW, good job adding floodplains to the Nile)

The Greece/Turkey are from version 1 looked more realistic. It allowed for fortifications at Corinth and Constantinople, but neither are possible in the new version.

You made Ohio into hills and grasslands. As someone who lives amongst its vast cornfeilds, I assure you Ohio has little of either Forested Plains are much more accurate. May want to add grains to the vast, empty Great Plains.

You mentioned problems with Italy. If you're willing to extend Italy 2 squares farther south, using the original Greece coastline, you can get enough room to make the shape of the boot and have Sicily.

Not sure if it's possible, but by default, Civ3 jungles ahve grasslands underneath. In reality the soil of deforested rainforests is very poor.

Thanks for reading and good luck!

	22-11-2001 06:37									#23
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Thanks for the pointers Sparky and Dreifels.

Tech tree, I believe gets messed up when you do any editing.

One vote for less grassland. I like playing with less grassland too but I figured I'd see what people thought of this. As I noted earlier I didn't use Grassland accurately in that version but simply to locate major (current) cities. I like placing real world cities in real locations when I play. Jungles and forest have ppor soil. I wonder if I can change the default for jungles being cleared. I'd like too.

If I remove horse from the Americas I feel required to remove Rubber from the Old World. It's only native to the Americas. Horses as I understand are native to mainland Eurasia.

Saltpeter I'll check on. The Encyclopedia did give locations for current producers.

For wines I used modern production areas. Egypt wasn't high enough on the list. Historically those grapes are only native to Western Eurasia. Historical or madern, that's the question.

Venezuela has one Oil. It's on a jungle squa

re. I modified the scenario to permit this. Double check and let me know if its there (on the coast).

Coal. There is one in Germany, and one next door in Poland. Maybe not enough realistically. Unless I allow more than 21 strategic resources I'll have to rob someone else. I'll look.

Baku needs oil! Who should lose some? Maybe one from the Persian Gulf?

the Alps: I pulled out the ruler and the calculater and they should be further south.

Loire and Seine: with the Rhine so near I wasn't sure they were needed.

Mongolia: I hoped the Kerulen/Cherlen would be enough

I spent hours on Italy/Greece/Istanbul. I finally gave up. I'll try again. If I connect Istanbul to Turkey, then you need to build Istanbul to get out of the Black Sea. Good Idea? (Why couldn't they have kept the Civ 2 rules?)

Azores and Hawaii are there.

Ohio's hills will disappear.

Alps/Pyrenees: artisitic licence. I'll look at closing the gaps but the idea was to allow Barcelona and Milano more food squares.

Again thanks for the pointers. Never been to Ohio, but I did love Germany.

	22-11-2001 19:21									#24
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Just had to say thanks for doing that great map, it really is spot on - and so massive. Should keep me going for the next few months (much better than that awful map that was included with Civ III).

In answer to your question, I would go historical if I were you.

Also do southern Ireland and Cornwall in England need to be extended?

Thanks again.

	23-11-2001 06:09									#25
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I adjusted Ireland in the south. Cornwall I left. It doesn't look long enough because the Bristol Channel isn't there.

I adjusted Italy. It looks like a boot, but now there isn't a channel between it and Sicily. Tell me if you can still sail south around Sicily so you care? Turkey was adjusted as well. You must build Istanbul to get out of the Black Sea. Which do you prefer? Greece I tried to touch up as well.

The Alps and the Pyrenees were expanded slightly. Not fully accurate, but better, I hope.

For those of you playing this map let me know how resources work. 21 strategic for 16 civs. Still debating historical vs modern placement of Horses/rubber/wine etc.

	23-11-2001 06:37									#26
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Regarding such things as the Bosporos, Suez, Panama, and Kiel I much prefer it where cities are needed to be built in order to secure passage. I find that it is much more realistic. For example, Russia could never 'force the straights' without having taken Constantinople thus bottling any Black Sea Fleet in. I feel that therefore leaving one-hex landbridges is the most accurate way to portray this.

	23-11-2001 07:46									#27
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sorry, but sparky's knowledge of history Europe isn't right.
- England got horses by keltic
- east border of East Sea (Baltic) was wet grass land and forest
- Spain was as wet as france and hat 90% forest
- Egypt had wine up from 3000 BC inall oasis southwest
However, nearby all in Europe building lot of ships between 500 + 1500 AC (Spain, England, Portugal, Baltic) need forest a lot and the result was waste land )as in Spain today)
So, if you create a map you have to look how the world was 3000 BC, not like it is today.

	24-11-2001 20:00									#28
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Four stars? Four?

Whoever voted you must tell me what to do to reach five in your mind. I must have five.

	24-11-2001 20:45									#29
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The map looks great , but what about the player starts ?
Can t you 'force' certain civs to spawn on certain locations ?

I wanted to play the map with the indians and i ended up at the Nile ;(.

If there is a way for me to start in India , plz let me know.

Good work tho,
greetz,
D.

	25-11-2001 02:43									#30
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Theres an editor on this site somewhere that allows you to edit start locations after the first turn. It suggests altering all start locations on a map to a remote area first. Your other option is to keep reloading until you start in the right place.