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Roman is offline Roman
King
Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 02:39
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US wants to leave peacekeeping and rebuilding Afganistan to Europe! Inflate your Upload Space

From the BBC website http://news.bbc.co.uk


quote:

Wednesday, 21 November, 2001, 13:48 GMT
US wary of peacekeeping


The US wants it soldiers to concentrate on fighting


By the BBC's Jon Leyne


Despite the progress of the war in Afghanistan, divisions have emerged between the United States and its allies over the next steps forward.

While Britain prepares for a major peacekeeping role in Afghanistan, the United States has already virtually ruled itself out.



On the American side, there's been a deep scepticism of peacekeeping, drawn by very bad experiences

James Lindsay
A few days ago, US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, said: "The United States may very well decide that at some point they want to put some additional forces on the ground - for example, for the purpose of repairing an airstrip.

"But in terms of taking US forces and having them become a part of a semi-permanent peacekeeping activity in the country, I think that's highly unlikely."

The simple fact is that the stepped-up training for US troops has been to fight a war, not to keep the peace.

Practised peacekeepers

James Lindsay, a former Clinton administration official, said: "The British are very good at the peacekeeping role, in part because their military leadership has embraced it. They've had a lot of practice, not just in Northern Ireland but also in the Balkans.



Britain is committed to a major peacekeeping role


"On the American side, there's been a deep scepticism of peacekeeping, drawn by very bad experiences, largely because when American troops go in as peacekeepers, they tend to draw a lot of fire, because we are the superpower."

The US was badly burnt by its experience of trying to keep the peace in Somalia in the early 1990s. Ever since then, the idea of nation-building has been taboo.

But there's a deeper philosophical opposition in Washington to the idea of this superpower dissipating its energy in peacekeeping. The leading right-wing thinker, Frank Gaffney, says it's something US forces simply should not be involved in.

Different goals

"We don't see ourselves as just another nation," he said. "By and large, we think that American military personnel should be not used as constabulary forces when what they've been trained to do, what they've been equipped to do and what, generally speaking, they are needed to do is to protect the peace on a more strategic or global basis."



We don't see ourselves as just another nation

Frank Gaffney
Right-wing thinker

Part of the problem is that Washington is concentrating mostly on destroying the al-Qaeda network, whereas its European allies are focused more on the future of Afghanistan.

"The Bush administration is in a bit of a pinch here, trying to figure out what to do," said James Lindsay. "But it's quite possible that the best outcome may be for America's allies to send peacekeepers in to stabilise it in the interim, and to have a broader-based peacekeeping force later on.

"There's nothing that says that Americans have to go in, or that the British, French and Germans can't go in without the Americans."

The impression in Washington is that this is not a massive policy dispute. Much more controversial will be the next step in the war on terror - the next target for American military action.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 02:55
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1. If other countries don't want to help they don't have to.

2. Several countries have offered to help. why shouldn't we take them up?

3. Several posters on this board...err...well KittyHorse from other countries have said that their countries should/would help in peacekeeping.

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
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Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:01 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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It's only natural for Americans to do the dirty work while the pretty little brits or europeans or whatever focus on their own little interests, aka "peacekeeping."

According to Bush, since all countries that take the middle ground are enemies like the Taliban themselves, an attack on Britain, Italy, Canada, etc would actually be justified. Of course, if they actually FIRED OFF A SHOT then things would be a little different.

Had Britain launched a missile for every internationally televised statement that makeup infested Blair made, this war would be LONG over.

Victor Galis is offline Victor Galis
Emperor
in exile
Jul 1999
time: 00:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:02 Visit Victor Galis's homepage!
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Bloody typical.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:07 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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We have other more important defense duties to our country. We are not some scandinavian country or Belgium or Holland who have no enemies and no external threats whatsoever.

We live in the Balkans and we have Turkey as a neighboor.

Still I think we agreed to boost our presence in the Balkans (FYROM - Yugoslavia) because many of the americans will leave this region. (if it were not for us there wouldn't be a serbian house standing in Kosovo because of the albanian cutthroats you lilly «peacekeepers» )

The government can get clearance for 1500 soldiers for Afganistan but I don't want it to. (one thing at a time!)

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
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Cambridge
Dec 2000
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  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:11 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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At some point, all you uptight europeans just got to realize something: YOUR TROOPS HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING, THEY WILL DO NOTHING, AND THEY COULDN'T DO ANYTHING IF THEY WANTED TO! Not in this country!

I've said it for the last five weeks and you STILL buy into that moronic way of thinking! The United States has Afghanistan liberated, and there was no outside help at all. When Iraq falls, I'm sure Blair will have a speech prepared.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
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  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:21 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Is this supposed to make me feel bad?

Dream world is funny but you need to wake up. You are not living in a fairy land. After September 11th I thought you realized it.

I'm not attacking you and I agree that Europe has not helped militarily. And I am happy for that for various reasons.

Things might had been differently if you indeed NEEDED us.

Don't be such a warmonger wiglaf! Now about the UK (which is a sui generis country in what regards its relationship with the US) I think you are a bit unfair.

Of course when I talk to the likes of you I don't really care what America wants, is or says

Victor Galis is offline Victor Galis
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  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:21 Visit Victor Galis's homepage!
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That's certainly a novel definition of liberated.

CapTVK is offline CapTVK
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Voorburg, the Netherlands, Europe
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:32 Visit CapTVK's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
Is this supposed to make me feel bad?

Dream world is funny but you need to wake up. You are not living in a fairy land. After September 11th I thought you realized it.


Actually it would probably be for the best in the long run if us Euro's took up the real work. It takes far more effort to create something then it takes to destroy. But then again, military hardware and big explosions are far cooler than rebuilding schools and fixing plumbing, right?


Why wake up when you can dream...

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
King
Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:36 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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the people sure as hell seem to like the freedom, how's that, victor?

quote:
Dream world is funny but you need to wake up. You are not living in a fairy land. After September 11th I thought you realized it.

I'm not attacking you and I agree that Europe has not helped militarily. And I am happy for that for various reasons.

Things might had been differently if you indeed NEEDED us.


Blair constantly said the attack on the US was an attack on his little country, too. Sure doesn't look like that to me. All I've gotten from him is smiles, the selfish snot.

Britain has taken the middle ground, they should be hit hard for it. So should Canada, Italy, and Austraila for lying about providing military aid to the world. If all those countries pitched in, the Taliban would be completely gone right now.

Evil_Eric_4 is offline Evil_Eric_4
Warlord

Nov 2001
time: 00:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:37
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Jesus I dont believe what Im reading!!!

Half of europe was ready to abandon us only weeks ago when the prevailing thought was that we couldnt win.

Then the taliban broke and ran(due to US airpower not that ragtag bunch called the NA).Soon after every other Euro nation has either been saying that [A]-we have a couple people in country or [B]-We are pledging new troops.

OK send your troops--The only use for them now IS peacekeeping.

Hell that frees up our people up to the real dirty-work.


Just remember the lesson you all just learned-
Vietnam is long over-The USA does not lose militarily.
not anymore.

Jump on the bandwagon or clear the road!
The American Army is on the march

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
The United States has Afghanistan liberated, and there was no outside help at all.


Don't you think that the NA deserves a special mention?

quote:
When Iraq falls, I'm sure Blair will have a speech prepared.


We aren't going after Iraq. If I were a betting man, I'd say that the Philipines (sp) are next.

Re Roman's article: What exactly is wrong with it?

Evil_Eric_4 is offline Evil_Eric_4
Warlord

Nov 2001
time: 00:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:44
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quote:
Actually it would probably be for the best in the long run if us Euro's took up the real work. It takes far more effort to create something then it takes to destroy. But then again, military hardware and big explosions are far cooler than rebuilding schools and fixing plumbing, right?



Yea using American Dollars

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:44
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Wiglaf, why should Canada be hit? They put themselves at great risk by accepting the planes that were redirected by the FAA. I'd say that they have proven themselves.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:46 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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How many were the american casualties? Very little close to zero.

How did the Taliban leave? Because your smart bombs OCCUPIED the cities?

Air attacks can only do so much. You need ground troops to capture cities. It was always like this.

So I agree that US did the planning, bombing and essentially masterminded the fall of the Taliban. No objection.

But I think it's funny that you think the NA did nothing.

And although I don't like Blair's overblown rhetorics at all I still think you are unfair wiglaf to the countries that offered some, not much, help.

On the other hand I'd be pissed too if Greece was offered 1 american soldier as military assistance and then Bush was saying that we are significantly helping Greece in its efforts or whatever

I understand your point of view too.

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
King
Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:47 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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quote:
Don't you think that the NA deserves a special mention?


for taking empty cities, and breaking into Kabul despite being told not to?

quote:
We aren't going after Iraq. If I were a betting man, I'd say that the Philipines (sp) are next.


Bush will eliminate terrorism. He'll get Iraq eventually.

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
King
Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:50 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Wiglaf, why should Canada be hit? They put themselves at great risk by accepting the planes that were redirected by the FAA. I'd say that they have proven themselves.


They lied about military aid. and, btw, the civilian planes were NO danger to them after they were diverted. not only were fighters on alert, the terrorists weren't exactly going to plan B the whole thing all of a sudden and hit some foreign landmark...

quote:
But I think it's funny that you think the NA did nothing.


you think everything is unfair.

quote:
I understand your point of view too.


the middle ground gets you nothing.

quote:
How many were the american casualties? Very little close to zero.


tell that to the five dead pilots, their familes, and fellow troops.

quote:
How did the Taliban leave? Because your smart bombs OCCUPIED the cities?


they had no more power after their troops were deserting, being picked off daily, and ran low on ammo. the NA didn't take anything, there was never a fight for any of the northern cities from anyone but the US.

the alliance is just a placeholder.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
for taking empty cities, and breaking into Kabul despite being told not to?


Air power has never won a war on its own. The NA's efforts saved us from having to commit large amounts of ground troops to the area.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:53
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Wiglaf,

Quit being a jackass. Sure we're doing most of the heavy lifting. We're the injured party. Whatever help we can get from other countries we will take even if it is purely nominal (even that has value for diplomatic and PR reasons.)

Paiktis...

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:54 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Everyone, I think Phillippine President Arroyo can handle the situation with her Armed forces. All she needs to do is unleash an unrelenting attack on the Abu Sayuff (SP?)

But I must admit that nobody did anything besides the US, absolutely nothing in the combat perspective. Probably because some of these countries are ill-prepared to go in. My country does not have the manpower to contribute much, though we will send some in soon.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:56 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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edited: forget it

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
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quote:
Air power has never won a war on its own. The NA's efforts saved us from having to commit large amounts of ground troops to the area.


they were going after their own agenda. eventually we'll probably have to replace them, as they have defied the US several times on their march into Kabul.

quote:
Quit being a jackass. Sure we're doing most of the heavy lifting. We're the injured party. Whatever help we can get from other countries we will take even if it is purely nominal (even that has value for diplomatic and PR reasons.)


So Blair was being truthful when he said his country was attacked, and he would treat EF like 4,000 british citizens died to cause it? whatever.

Roman is offline Roman
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Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 04:02
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Re Roman's article: What exactly is wrong with it?


The article shows a pattern emerging. The US usually carries out a military action with minor EU support. The EU then goes in for the long term doing peacekeeping and spending vast sums of money to rebuilt the country concerned, becoming commited to the area with little prospect of being able to pull out in the future.

Both blocks should do both.

CapTVK is offline CapTVK
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Voorburg, the Netherlands, Europe
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  Old Post 22-11-2001 04:06 Visit CapTVK's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Evil_Eric_4



Yea using American Dollars



Why thank you! but Europe can pay it's own bills when it comes to foreign aid. Thanks for the offer though.


And Eric, foreign aid to undeveloped armies (errr...countries)doesn't count.

Dis is offline Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 04:08 Visit Dis's homepage!
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because U.S. peacekeeping forces would be decimated by terrorists if we occupied the country. Look at the russian, they weren't peacekeepers, but terrorists won't make a distinction.

in case it isn't obvious. the U.S. isn't well liked over there.

TCO is offline TCO
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Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 04:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf

So Blair was being truthful when he said his country was attacked, and he would treat EF like 4,000 british citizens died to cause it? whatever.


Who the **** cares? This is not a **** size contest, you little weener. If you're such a badass, go sign up and serve your country.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:16
  Old Post 22-11-2001 04:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Roman


The article shows a pattern emerging. The US usually carries out a military action with minor EU support. The EU then goes in for the long term doing peacekeeping and spending vast sums of money to rebuilt the country concerned, becoming commited to the area with little prospect of being able to pull out in the future.

Both blocks should do both.


If you don't want to help out, don't. Simple as that. No sweat.

Oh, by the way I think you underestimate how much Europeans depend on the US to help forege coalitions. Nobody wanted to do anything in Yugo, unless "the big boy" was committed, also.

Evil_Eric_4 is offline Evil_Eric_4
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 22-11-2001 04:26
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quote:
Why thank you! but Europe can pay it's own bills when it comes to foreign aid. Thanks for the offer though.


There has been much talk inside our government about a Marshall Plan for Afganistan for some time --even before the shooting started.

Trust me -The bulk of the cash to rebuild will be coming from the American taxpayer.

Not that those ( or you for that matter) people will apreciate it though.

red_jon is offline red_jon
King
Uni of Wales Swansea
Oct 2000
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  Old Post 22-11-2001 04:39 Visit red_jon's homepage!
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Hmm, maybe our troops aren't liberating the cities because they are sitting around waiting for orders from the Americans?

Never mind, I'm sure you Americans can make a nice film about how you stopped the Taliban from nuking the world

red_jon is offline red_jon
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Uni of Wales Swansea
Oct 2000
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  Old Post 22-11-2001 04:41 Visit red_jon's homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

(My apologies to any decent Americans I offended - we should be standing together, but you're always gonna get some moron like wiglaf watching the Redneck News Network )

 
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