27-11-2001 05:01									#61
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Sheesh greeks have an amazing history. I dont think any civilization has had so much effect on the modern world today.

btw- Nice about the battle. I had forgot

	27-11-2001 05:12									#62
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Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Don't Make Them Have To Take It Away
Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Make Ireland Irish Today

Great Britain You Are Tremendous
And Nobody Knows Like Me
But Really What Are You Doin'
In The Land Across The Sea

Tell Me How Would You Like It
If On Your Way To Work
You Were Stopped By Irish Soliders
Would You Lie Down Do Nothing
Would You Give In, or Go Berserk

Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Don't Make Them Have To Take It Away
Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Make Ireland Irish Today

Great Britain And All The People
Say That All People Must Be Free
Meanwhile Back In Ireland
There's A Man Who Looks Like Me

And He Dreams Of God And Country
And He's Feeling Really Bad
And He's Sitting In A Prison
Should He Lie Down Do Nothing
Should Give In Or Go Mad

Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Don't Make Them Have To Take It Away
Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Make Ireland Irish Today

Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Don't Make Them Have To Take It Away
Give Ireland Back To The Irish
Make Ireland Irish Today


I was too lazy to replace Ireland by Gibraltar and Irish by Spanish

Bottomline: Great Britain, you are tremendous, and you're not the center of the world any more

	27-11-2001 05:31									#63
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Er... last time I checked, Ireland had been "given back" to the Irish. Except for the part where the "Irish" people there consider themselves British.

Likewise with Gibraltar. The Gibraltarians (?) consider themselves British, and as has been pointed out on this thread, the Spanish have no more historical claim to the Rock than the British do. So, let's remain as is. Quite honestly, I fail to see why Spain have continued to make such a fuss.

	27-11-2001 06:00									#64
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Geez, what an argument.....

You should just settle this dispute by giving it to the USA.

	27-11-2001 06:13									#65
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What a shame, the world degernerates everytime the British lose a colony.

	27-11-2001 06:16									#66
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It's not the people, it's the land. It certainly amuses me that you Brits always obviate this "small" detail. No one wants to take away the British citizenship from the Gibraltarians. Why can't they just be British citizens living in Spain, under a very advantageous political status? There are currently like 100,000 British people living in Spain. I know a few of them and I can assure you they're so happy that they don't even want to move back to Britain!

Gibraltar was taken by force and a treaty signed afterwards recognized the Spanish rights to receive back the territory in the case the British left. That for me makes a pretty decent historical claim. Just imagine if a tiny corner of England was in the hands of a more powerful nation. Wouldn't you like that territory restored? I bet all you guys would. Quite honestly I fail to see why Britain have unnecessarily bittered the relations with Spain for such a pettiness.

There is in addition another minor detail. Gibraltar can't survive alone. Even with today's situation, if Spain closes the gates, Gibraltar dies. So let's all be practical for once, don't you guys think? Britain wants Spain's friendship (dunno why or what for) and Spain wants Gibraltar back. It's that simple.

	27-11-2001 06:23									#67
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quote: a treaty signed afterwards recognized the Spanish rights to receive back the territory in the case the British left

We're still there though. When we leave, I'm sure we'll notify you...

	27-11-2001 06:23									#68
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No, in the name of +historical justice we must resurrect Grenada!

	27-11-2001 06:28									#69
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quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* We're still there though. When we leave, I'm sure we'll notify you...

Absolutely. I was answering to those who claim for an independent Gibraltar. When the Brits leave, Gibraltar becomes Spain again. That's all.

Enlighten me, why was Hong Kong given back to the Chinese?

	27-11-2001 06:41									#70
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Hong Kong had a 99 year lease. The lease was up.

	27-11-2001 06:45									#71
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What he said.

	27-11-2001 09:45									#72
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 No the battle of Atlantis with Athens ended with the defeat of Atlantis (they almost had us, but then an earthquake sent them to Poseidon's embrace - meaning they drawn like dogs)

Athens was a self absorbed citystate that lead the Greeks to their ultimate humilation under the heal of the great king of Macedonia. If however the great and noble Spartans had lead, we would all be speaking greek today.

Giancarlo: You almost had it to where people could talk to you. Then you arch nemesis Provost came in and made you slip up.


Girbraltar should be allowed to decide. Damn the EU, damn the Spanish and damn the Brits. It is their decision.



but if they can't decide. Give it to the US. I'm sure that Donald Trump could find something useful to do with it.

	27-11-2001 13:44									#73
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Well I take this opportunity to say that Brits, despite their power (former and present) are very pleasant and not at all irritating, in contrast with, for example, the french.


Look : we've told you before, you'll just have to accept you've lost your Marbles

Anyway, back on subject:

Seems to be the done thing these days. If Britain and someone else has a disagreement, then according to the politicians, Britain has to back down again. Must be a PC thing.



"Quite honestly I fail to see why Britain have unnecessarily bittered the relations with Spain for such a pettiness."

Or perhaps more relevantly, I fail to see why Spain have unnecessarily embittered the relations with Britain for such a pettiness.

Spoils of war and all that. Time's moved on, the land is under British rule. How long does it take before one can accept and move on ?


"There is in addition another minor detail. Gibraltar can't survive alone. Even with today's situation, if Spain closes the gates, Gibraltar dies."

Sorry, what was that you said about pettiness again ?

Last edited by Gary on 27-11-2001 at 13:54

	27-11-2001 14:02									#74
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France belongs to Britain. Well it's obvious it does, it's just off our coastline ain't it ! So that's the food sorted for Xmas, next stop Belgium and some chocolates.

	27-11-2001 15:12									#75
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An Irishman is but a Welshman who can swim...give Ireland to the Welsh...


Spain and Gibralter...if Spain gets Gibralter they must learn to speak English (including those hiding out in the middle of the Sierra Nevada)...no pain, no gain...

	27-11-2001 17:16									#76
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I'd be interested to see what the results of a referendum on Gibraltar would be if the place was no longer a tax haven...

EiF:
"Steve, we lost one ship, maybe two I think... they were sunk by French missiles sold through the USA! "

Well, I can name the Coventry and the Sheffield and the Atlantic Conveyor (arguably the most important loss) and the Galahad...off the top of my head, so I think you might need to add a couple more onto that.

Anyway, the French missiles through the US was made up for by the French backing us all the way, and the US providing us with sidewinders for our Harriers.

	27-11-2001 17:27									#77
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Who here would be willing to give the Spanish the Isle of Wight in compensation?

	27-11-2001 17:34									#78
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Well...Gibraltar's a rock...so is Rockall!

Like for like, that's what I say...

	27-11-2001 17:38									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Gary France belongs to Britain. Well it's obvious it does, it's just off our coastline ain't it ! So that's the food sorted for Xmas, next stop Belgium and some chocolates.

And Britain belongs to the French.

And the US should belong to Spain... hey Christopher Colombus went on Spanish Ships.

	27-11-2001 18:31									#80
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Naw, the Normans took up that option ages ago. They can't have it twice

	27-11-2001 18:31									#81
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Actually Britain should have vast tracts of France returned as IIRC we used to own about a 1/3 of the country quite legitimately through Royal lineage.

But you don't hear us carping on about it incessantly...

Of the top of my head I can think of three reasons why we shouldn't give it back...

1) We've owned it for longer than Spain did

2) 99.9% of the locals don't want to be Spanish

3) Spain is being hypocritical in the extreme claiming Gibraltar when she has exactly the same gig going on in Morocco with Ceuta and Melilla (See map). I'd like to see Spain show good faith in returning those territories to Morocco before we should even consider handing Gibraltar over to them!

Since the Irish were brought into the equation, when is it we'll be seeing an independent Basque state?

Personally I couldn't care less whether we handed Gibraltar back (interesting place - you should go!), but I'm buggered if I'll give in to a bunch of people guilty of the same 'crimes' that we are!

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	27-11-2001 19:06									#82
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS Actually Britain should have vast tracts of France returned as IIRC we used to own about a 1/3 of the country quite legitimately through Royal lineage.

Well not any more it ain't... who wants to rule the French anyways? Ugh.

quote: 3) Spain is being hypocritical in the extreme claiming Gibraltar when she has exactly the same gig going on in Morocco with Ceuta and Melilla (See map). I'd like to see Spain show good faith in returning those territories to Morocco before we should even consider handing Gibraltar over to them!

We need more land.

quote: Since the Irish were brought into the equation, when is it we'll be seeing an independent Basque state?

You never will see that. Basque is part of Spain and the ETA are unpopular. It will never be granted independence because it has been part of Spain for a very long time.

quote: Personally I couldn't care less whether we handed Gibraltar back (interesting place - you should go!), but I'm buggered if I'll give in to a bunch of people guilty of the same 'crimes' that we are!

It is rightfully ours!

	27-11-2001 19:12									#83
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quote: It is rightfully ours!

How?

	27-11-2001 19:15									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch quote: It is rightfully ours! How?

Firstly, it is located on Iberia.... next to Spain, and is held by the British. It should belong to Spain.

	27-11-2001 19:18									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Firstly, it is located on Iberia....

So is Portugal. Are you going to claim Lusitania aswell?

	27-11-2001 19:21									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch So is Portugal. Are you going to claim Lusitania aswell?

Finish reading my sentence before you jump to conclusions. Lusitania? Uh, I never heard of such a country.

I said it is located right next to Spain, therefore is Spain's. If it was next to Portugal it should be part of Portugal. You don't see Spain holding any territory in the British isles now do you?

	27-11-2001 19:22									#87
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quote: We need more land.

You have more land than us, don't we need the land?

quote: Firstly, it is located on Iberia.... next to Spain, and is held by the British. It should belong to Spain.

Perhaps I should refer you back to the Spanish colonies MOBIUS mentioned...?

	27-11-2001 19:23									#88
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quote: I said it is located right next to Spain, therefore is Spain's

Portugal is located right next to Spain, there should it be Spain's?

	27-11-2001 19:23									#89
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Tell me why the Spanish went whinning to the EU? If they want it, let them try and take it.

	27-11-2001 19:25									#90
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quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* Portugal is located right next to Spain, there should it be Spain's?

It really should be...

quote: Tell me why the Spanish went whinning to the EU? If they want it, let them try and take it.

That would be too easy.