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lightblue
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L'Boro, UK
Oct 2001
time: 05:16
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Now I am not English, but have lived here for long enough to know that not everything is great (my main gripes is the public transport system). However there are some things that England can be proud of, and a lot of them have been mentioned.
Another example is something I just heard on ITN news, how Rumsfeld complimented the British special forces (SAS/SBS) as the best-trained, smartest and toughest forces currently in Afghanistan.
And living in Cambridge I think that the intellectual history (and present to a lesser degree) of Britain is probably matched by none. If you look at list of alumni from Oxford and Cambridge and see names like Newton, Darwin, Milton among them, it is something to be proud of.
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Rogan Josh
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Wilkinson
...the Internet is technically English too.
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I am curious at how you justify this staement too. I would have said it was American/Swiss. American since the 'internet' itself was originally designed for US defence purposes, Swiss because the 'World Wide Web' (ie. the pointy clicky interface for the internet) was developed at CERN (where I work) in Switzerland.
The only reasoning for British is that the CERN project leader was British.
Edit: hmm - thinking about that again, since CERN is governed by an international treaty, it isn't really Switzerland (which is why I don't pay income tax).
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Rogan Josh
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quote:
Originally posted by Big Crunch
Of any kind?????? |
Not a sausage. (I do, of course pay for health insurance though.)
quote:
Do they take this into account when they pay your wages, or do you get paid 30% more than the average *insert job position*. |
Well, it is kind of hard to say. Since Switzerland is rather expensive, it is difficult to compare with other national labs - Switzerland, on the whole does pay better than most other places. But comparing to 'average' positions in say Germany, the CERN gross (=net since no tax) is also considerably more than the German gross (which has to then have 30% or so removed).
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Dr Spin
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quote:
Can you imagine dubya in PM's question time ? |
Dubya isn't America incarnate, my "hip-to-bash-USA" friend. Most of us didn't even vote for the fellow.
US-Britian isn't much of a culture shock after all. Behind your english backs, continental europe calls you a "culture-lacking nation of shopkeepers". Sound familiar?
Take away the Monarchy, and Britian is almost indistinguishable from the northeast USA.
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Roland
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Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:16
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Dr Spin:
"Dubya isn't America incarnate, my "hip-to-bash-USA" friend. Most of us didn't even vote for the fellow."
First, your so called "patriotism" is hard on the stomach. So I feel a certain urge to take it on.
To dubya, yes. It is however shocking that an idiot like him could be selected President by daddy's friends in the supreme court. In the UK political system, he'd have had to show at least some intelligence to stand a chance as leader of the opposition.
"US-Britian isn't much of a culture shock after all. Behind your english backs, continental europe calls you a "culture-lacking nation of shopkeepers". Sound familiar?"
I think Napoleon I was the last one of importance to hold that stereotype. Cultureless and nuts is the stereotype for the US, but Britain is much more seen through London's image on the positive, and hooligans and BSE on te negative. Neither applies to te US.
"Take away the Monarchy, and Britian is almost indistinguishable from the northeast USA."
On that level, the NE might well be almost indistinguishable from most of northern or central europe, apart from the language.
In general: Where please is Britain closer to the US than to continental europe culturally, apart from the (almost) common language ?
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Dr Spin
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quote:
First, your so called "patriotism" is hard on the stomach. |
Can you be more specific?
quote:
It is however shocking that an idiot like him could be selected President by daddy's friends in the supreme court. In the UK political system, he'd have had to show at least some intelligence to stand a chance as leader of the opposition. |
It's not quite that simple. GW was elected because the US primary system has a habit of weeding out the best candidates. He ran against a boor, and the election was a tie b/c we didn't really want either. Can you explain exactly what you mean by "some intelligence"? Are you equating knowledge with intelligence? Maybe you've been reading a bit too much of The Sun.
quote:
I think Napoleon I was the last one of importance to hold that stereotype. |
Can you explain 'importance', please? Are german and french citizens 'important'? That's who I've heard it from. I didn't know it originated with Napoleon.
quote:
On that level, the NE might well be almost indistinguishable from most of northern or central europe, apart from the language. |
I've been to both England and Continental Europe. I speak english, french and german. Apart from language differences, I felt less a foreigner in England than in Texas. English popular culture (music, movies, sitcom television, tabloids, celebrity worship, cynicism of government, petty nationalism) feels quite at home in America, while it is met derisively on the continent. They don't like you over there.
quote:
Britain is PART OF the EU. |
This is 'kind-of' my point. For the most part, you guys don't see yourselves as 'part of' the EU. You will not enjoy deferring to Germany (recent history has shown British foreign policy to be more in-tune with American), and your population will probably never really give up the pound (petty nationalism).
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Rogan Josh
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Spin
This is 'kind-of' my point. For the most part, you guys don't see yourselves as 'part of' the EU. You will not enjoy deferring to Germany (recent history has shown British foreign policy to be more in-tune with American), and your population will probably never really give up the pound (petty nationalism). |
Dr Spin - you do realise that Roland is Austrian don't you?
Besides, you are completely wrong. I don't know where you have been on the European continent but it is fairly indistinguishable from the UK in many ways. Obviously there is regional variation (which is a good thing) but I find myself much more 'at home' in Continental Europe than in the US. For one thing, the people of Britian and the rest of Europe have much more in common with each pollitically and morally other than the US has in common with either.
It is just a myth that the British like to perpetuate to Americans that we are 'just like you'. Thank God we are not!
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Roland
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Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:16
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Dr Spin:
"Can you be more specific?"
Watch your TV news. I get CNN, NBC and Fox. For annoying jingoism and endorsing reporting of displays of annoying jingoism, Fox is not that much worse than the others.
It will not look that way to you, but try to see it as it is percieved by non-amerians. Replace every time they refer to "America" with "China", "Russia" or "San Marino".
"It's not quite that simple. GW was elected because the US primary system has a habit of weeding out the best candidates."
Indeed. So you got to pick between pathetic little daddy boys from both parties as the result of a hopelessly corrupt political process.
"Can you explain 'importance', please? Are german and french citizens 'important'? That's who I've heard it from. I didn't know it originated with Napoleon."
Napoleon derided the Brits as a nation of small shopkeepers/traders, I'd assume the picture is older and goes back to Britain's vast trade interests. I haven't heard that stereotype from anyone wrt to the Brits (or Americans either) - and I am a "continental" as RJ points out. Rundown public services is a much more prominent sterotype.
"English popular culture (music, movies, sitcom television, tabloids, celebrity worship, cynicism of government, petty nationalism) feels quite at home in America, while it is met derisively on the continent. They don't like you over there."
There are many anglophiles on the continent. As for "popular culture":
"music" - pretty much international
"movies" - dito
"sitcom television" - I have the impression that one of the sharpest devides between Americans and Brits is humour... I mean, humor.
"tabloids" - read Bild, Krone, etc
"celebrity worship" - same crap here
"cynicism of government" - aren't we all cynical there ? The difference is that europeans are focussing more on politics. Where do the Brits fall there ? Hmm... I think a majority still believes the NHS is a good idea if it only revieved sufficient government funding. This is quite un-american (it's no large corporation after all), and is quite leftist from a continental POV.
Or Brits trust their government with outlawing virtually all private gun ownership. Rather extreme, even from a continental perspective.
"petty nationalism" - not even close to the US. Nowhere near.
" You will not enjoy deferring to Germany (recent history has shown British foreign policy to be more in-tune with American)"
Because the government policy is tied into the US "political-military-industrial complex". If we take war in Afghanistan, popular sentiment seems more in line with other european countries (ie ~50-70 % approval, rather than 90 %).
Last edited by Roland on 06-12-2001 at 15:38
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03-12-2001 03:56
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