07-01-2002 22:23									#1
	Five best rulers of your country Get a bigger avatar today!

And I'm NOT talking about those measurement gadgets. What I'm talking about are leaders of country! For countries like US this means presidents, and for countries like Great Britain it could mean either five best kings or five best prime ministers.

For Finland:

1. Carl Gustav Emil Mannerheim - While this is more of lifetime achievement award, there was still one important thing about Mannerheim's two-year-long presidency - it allowed us to distance ourselves from Germany and make peace treaty with SU, thus saving our country from communist tyranny.

2. Juho Kusti Paasikivi - Governed during the Danger Years of late Fourties when it looked possible local Communists might take over, and set course for policy of neutrality that saved us from communist tyranny.

3. Kaarlo Juho Ståhlberg - the first president is responsible for much of Constitution, but we shan't forget his contribution to national unity - amnesty for Red soldiers shacked up in concentration camps after the Civil War. If Finland hadn't managed to mostly heal it's wounds by time of Winter War, we would have surely went under the heel of communist tyranny.

4. Pehr Evind Svinhufvud - During the thirties, Finland, like about every other country in Europe, had a fascist movement. Thirties were their heydays, and they actually attempted a coup in 1935?, converging in town of Mäntsälä and making various demands, believing conservative Svinhufvud to be receptive. Svinhufvud, however, told them to disperse in a radio speech, and his authority was enough to make all but most hard-core fanatics disperse. It's doubtful someone with less authority in righty circles would have managed to save us from fascist tyranny.

...which would have most likely led to eventual Soviet conquest and communist tyranny.

5. Urho Kaleva Kekkonen. Kekkonen ruled for 25 years and became almost synonymous with presidency. While his autocracy and want of power were rather uncouth, he still continued the foreign policy line of Paasikivi, thus saving us from communist tyranny. And he was one of the most interesting characters in Finnish history, that's for sure.

	07-01-2002 22:47									#2
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Well as the product of our fine Canadian educational system, I really can't remember to many of our PM's, and what they did.

But probably the best KNOWN one would have to be Trudeau. IMO I think he was one of the worst though.

	07-01-2002 22:50									#3
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The Dutch king William I was the best ruler of Belgium

	07-01-2002 22:54									#4
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Well, I'm going to go pretty much with the standard set for the US:

(in order)
1. George Washington
2. FDR
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Theodore Roosevelt
5. Thomas Jefferson

	07-01-2002 22:54									#5
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Stefu, there are a lot of jokes about Kekkonen.

	07-01-2002 23:16									#6
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Of course there are, Lars-E. Of course there are.

President Kekkonen was on a visit to countryside. Suddenly the care he was in stopped.

"What happened?" Kekkonen angrily demanded to know from chauffeur.

Chauffeur stepped outside, soon came back and said "Looks like I hit someone's pig."

"Well, you should go and apologize for it, then" said Kekkonen. Chauffeur left for a house nearby.

An hour went. Another hour went. Kekkonen got more and more annoyed. More hours went. It was past midnight when the chauffeur returned.

"What the hell took so long?" Kekkonen shouted.

"Well", chauffeur began, "I just went there and they all got very happy and the father came to shake my hand and gave me money and mother went to cook me a fine meal and father went to cellar to get some of his finest wines, and after I had eaten and drunk they heated up sauna for me, and after I had bathed and was resting the beautiful daughter of the house came and had sex with me, and it got kind of late so I left."

"Oh? What did you tell them?" asked Kekkonen.

Chauffeur answered "I don't know what got them so excited. All I did was go there and say "I'm a chauffeur for president Kekkonen and I just killed the pig.""

	07-01-2002 23:16									#7
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Good leaders of my country were Helmut Kohl, Otto v. Bismarck, Frederick I Barbarossa, Frederick (II) "the Great" of Prussia... and I can't think of a decent fifth one...

Frederick I "Barbarossa" was actually the first to re-unite the German empire. Regional lords had gained a lot of power and questioned the Emperor's authority, which he stopped. His greatest rival, Henry the Lion was defeated by him
Frederick II "Fiederico" was a paper tiger compared to him. Being the former's grandson, he dissolved the empire again, did nothing against the Tatars/Mongols (1247) and just lived for fun on Sicily

Frederick II of Prussia, "the Great" - made Prussia one of the most powerful states in Europe, in a time when Prussia was still Prussia. Later on, in the 19th century, Prussia was a symbol for militarism. Back into the 18th century, it was symbol for enlightened/reasoned absolutism, liberal politics and the like; Frederick the Great gained lots of territories for Prussia and gave proof to Europe that the French army was not unbeatable. A second Great Power on German territory meant more stability in the crumbled empire.

Otto v. Bismarck - he became Prussian MP in 1862. He reformed the army, made tactical war against Denmark, Austria and then France in order to gain political allies, finally founded the North German alliance and then made the 2nd German Empire possible. Many would consider him a militarist, imperialist and ultra conservatist... and that he most certainly was , nonetheless the re-unification of the empire was an important step for balance in economy and living standard for Central Europe. After 1871 (reunification), there were more than 40 yeras of peace. And WWII did not break out because of Bismarck's stupidity. German's share on war responsibility lies in Wilhelm II.

Helmut Kohl - "3rd reunificaiton" as I call it in 1990 is officially attributed to him, even thouhg it was an achievement of many people. Now considering how hard the social democrats were fighting the reunification back then it is odd how they can get so many votes in this part of the country nowadays

Can you help me with the 5th?

	07-01-2002 23:17									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Andrew1999 Well, I'm going to go pretty much with the standard set for the US: (in order) 1. George Washington 2. FDR 3. Abraham Lincoln 4. Theodore Roosevelt 5. Thomas Jefferson

Not sure what you mean by the "standard set" but here's mine in chronological order:

George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
Andrew Jackson
Theodore Roosevelt
Ronald Reagan

	07-01-2002 23:21									#9
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I'll leave our insight to Laz. I'm sure he will have a much more informative and hilarious one than I could compose

	07-01-2002 23:29									#10
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Then shut up Provost, I used to get banned regulalry because of bullsh!t answers like that

	07-01-2002 23:36									#11
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The best Prime Minister we ever had was a Conservative. In fact, he was recently voted "best British person ever".

	07-01-2002 23:37									#12
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Can you help me with the 5th?

Ecthelion,

Is Charlemange considered German? He lived and died in Aachen, so that would count I think.

	07-01-2002 23:40									#13
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David and Solomon... But it's hard to differentiate facts from myths about them. As for modern Israel, I'll go with Ben Gurion for getting the whole thing going.

	07-01-2002 23:42									#14
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Fairytales don't count, Eli...

	07-01-2002 23:45									#15
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They are far from being fairytales. After the Torah(or whatever the first five books are called in English) most of the stuff are a bit exaggerated facts. But still facts.

	07-01-2002 23:50									#16
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1. Thomas Jefferson
2. George Washington
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Theodore Roosevelt
5. Harry Truman

	07-01-2002 23:51									#17
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Old Testament = Storybook

	07-01-2002 23:55									#18
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quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* Old Testament = Storybook

Aha...
So why dont you tell me what were the Jews doing in the period between 1300BC and 500BC? What leaders did they have? Where were they living? In what wars they were participating?

	07-01-2002 23:55									#19
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Washington
Polk
TR
LBJ
Nixon

	07-01-2002 23:56									#20
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1) Tony Blair
2) Tony Blair
3) Tony Blair
4) Tony Blair
5) Tony Blair

	07-01-2002 23:56									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui 1. Thomas Jefferson 2. George Washington 3. Abraham Lincoln 4. Theodore Roosevelt 5. Harry Truman

You don't have the Gipper on your list Imran?!

:has heart attack:

	08-01-2002 00:01									#22
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quote: So why dont you tell me what were the Jews doing in the period between 1300BC and 500BC? What leaders did they have? Where were they living? In what wars they were participating?

I'll be honest... I've no idea.

However, if I wanted to know what went on, I'd look for real historical evidence rather than a book of fairytales (even if some of them are based on fact). The same way I'd try to find out what was happening in Britain in that time period, or what the Arabs were doing at the time... sensible huh?

	08-01-2002 00:01									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Drekkus Can you help me with the 5th? Ecthelion, Is Charlemange considered German? He lived and died in Aachen, so that would count I think.

that frog? geh mir fort!

	08-01-2002 00:03									#24
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now the prize question:

which were the 5 best Kings Numeor ever had? Stewards of Gondor? Edain kings in Beleriand?

	08-01-2002 00:10									#25
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quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* I'll be honest... I've no idea. However, if I wanted to know what went on, I'd look for real historical evidence rather than a book of fairytales (even if some of them are based on fact). The same way I'd try to find out what was happening in Britain in that time period, or what the Arabs were doing at the time... sensible huh?

AFAIK, there is no historical evidence that refutes the things told in the Old Testament(about the Jewish history, not the creation of the world, Noah, etc). Actually, all historical and archeological findings show that in general what's written there is correct.
For example, we dont know whether the story with Solomon and the trial with the two women who were fighting over a baby happened, or whether it's a myth. But we do know(from sources other than the bible) that Solomon was the king of Israel in that certain period, that he built the First Temple, conquered this and that, that in general he was thought of as a good king, etc.
We do not know whether the story of David&Goliath is true, false, or over-exaggerated, but we know that David was the King of Israel and that he conquered lots of lands and bla bla bla.

	08-01-2002 00:22									#26
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quote: *End Is Forever*: Old Testament = Storybook Eli: So why dont you tell me what were the Jews doing in the period between 1300BC and 500BC? What leaders did they have? Where were they living? In what wars they were participating? *End Is Forever*: I'll be honest... I've no idea.

And the prize for most arrogance in the 1st week of January of 2002 goes to...
*End Is Forever*! For his clear knowledge of not knowing anything about the Jewish history and still be sure that the Jews are wrong about their history registries! Bravo!

	08-01-2002 00:24									#27
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will someone comment on my posts

	08-01-2002 00:25									#28
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@ Zealot

Andy, no.

	08-01-2002 00:29									#29
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quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* @ Zealot

Just don't criticize things when you don't have enough knowledge to defend/attack a subject, ok? You probably know this, but it seems that you just forgot this "lesson" in your post.

	08-01-2002 00:31									#30
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Ecthelion, I don't remember, ok? It has been almost a year since I read the LOTR saga, and I made no effort in memorizing the Numenorian history.