06-12-2002 07:10									#961
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Sure fine, replace what gets destroyed and taek them

	06-12-2002 07:13									#962
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Nevermind actually, now that I'm looking at it I realize WF already gifted them to Germany with CivTweak. The only problem (like he said) was that somehow there are British, Russian, and French-owned German conscripts are inside the German cities. So I just have to fix that, give them the techs, and give them the monarchy government.

	06-12-2002 08:03									#963
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Could I please be set up with a democratic government?

	06-12-2002 08:05									#964
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I think a Republic would be realistic considering that's what Germany had after WW 1.

	06-12-2002 08:07									#965
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Jim told me to make it a monarchy without the republic tech and that they have to earn it, so I did. If one of the Allied players has an objection let him speak now...

	06-12-2002 10:00									#966
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Ok gentlemen, I think this it.

In this turn I:

1) Disbanded all the British and Russian units inside the German cities, and then created identical units just along the British and Russian borders so they didn't have to lose them.

2) Gave Germany all the techs that it had before being destroyed.

3) Gave Germany a Monarchy government, and set their research to Republic.

4) Built a few courthouses and a cathedral to bring their happiness and corruption to reasonable levels. Without them, even on 70% taxes they would have been in a deficit.

5) Allied Germany to every nation.

6) Created manned German fortresses on the border, with rail bypasses next to them so that they don't impede trade. I don't know if you guys are ok with this but I just felt so bad for those poor Krauts.

7) Created the following units:

Attachment: units.jpg
This has been downloaded 51 time(s).

	06-12-2002 10:05									#967
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Their techs:

Attachment: techs.jpg
This has been downloaded 70 time(s).

Last edited by Darius871 on 06-12-2002 at 10:33

	06-12-2002 10:12									#968
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And the beautiful new fatherland:

Attachment: germany.jpg
This has been downloaded 54 time(s).

	06-12-2002 10:22									#969
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And here's the file. I tested it and you can start as Germany from it without any AI crossover. Anyone who wants to can open it up and take a look, and let me know whatever you want to change.

If you play on as-is, everybody remember to replace their passwords on their turn, as they all have been stripped like usual.

Attachment: germany done.net
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

Last edited by Darius871 on 06-12-2002 at 10:37

	06-12-2002 11:15									#970
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Whoa, where did they get that Navy in Rostock? And all those units in Berlin? I think they should just have a conscript or two per city. I don't like the idea of the forts either.

Last edited by JamesJKirk on 06-12-2002 at 11:22

	06-12-2002 11:18									#971
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Well like I said I was a bit too sympathetic. But the ships are crap and they can't make offensive operations, so it seemed reasonable. Conquering them for whatever reason will still be a rollover.

However, if this is the opinion of everybody I guess I'll turn them back into an agrarian sh*thole.

	06-12-2002 11:29									#972
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm all for the sh*thole option . You're right that they need to be viable, and we all agreed on that here. I would say the should have a couple of conscripts per city, even 3 in Berlin, a couple of transports, a few Engineers and not much else to start off with. You yourself made it economically viable, and I've no problem with that, and I don't want their cities to be revolting either.

El: The plan is for once you discover Democracy, become a democracy, and build your Palace in Berlin, then we can move onto the next wave of cities to transfer to you.

ALL: We still need to decide on what exactly the limits of Germany's military will be

	06-12-2002 11:34									#973
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All I know is that someone wrote 'no armored cruisers or battleships', so I gave them a couple of rowboats in Rostock.

	07-12-2002 00:23									#974
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I don't even have a capital?

	07-12-2002 00:28									#975
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Oh shyte sorry, I knew I forgot something.

Anyway it looks like I'm going to have to make changes anyway, so I'll just add it to the list.

	07-12-2002 00:34									#976
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This is like the Treaty of Versailles all over again.

	07-12-2002 06:41									#977
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No, no capital, it'll just take him a few turns to make the capitol, that was one of the conditions for moving to the second phase.

EDIT: After giving it some more thought, I'm fine w/ the Navy you gave Germany, though I'd prefer those artillery were left out. I wasn't trying to be unreasonable or anything, I'd've just liked to have been informed about that stuff first, but no harm done

	07-12-2002 06:55									#978
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This Germany isn't even worth the trouble.

	07-12-2002 07:42									#979
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Dude it's just provisional; you'll get more cities soon and of course your six cities are very developed. If you really don't want it say so, Choke seemed to express an interest.

Last edited by Darius871 on 07-12-2002 at 07:59

	07-12-2002 07:48									#980
	Remove this text

I'll happily cede the privilige to Choke then.

	07-12-2002 09:28									#981
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Whoa, el no need to over react. This is a wokring process. HAve you seen how much you will get back? we're rebuilding Germany not punishing it. It's already been punished enough with occupation.

	07-12-2002 10:14									#982
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Just to add my $0.02, I'm all for increasing the size of Germany now and not later.

	07-12-2002 20:51									#983
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It took what, four months to recreate Germany?

	07-12-2002 22:04									#984
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, setting up Germany itself is the hardest part. Afterwards, it's much easier to add territory. Also we set the begining of 1906 as the date for the recreation so now it's rolled around and we did it, not that we dragged our feet for 4 months.

	07-12-2002 23:48									#985
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I don't want to seem so unreasonable that you can't work with us. Maybe we've been too rigid, just float an offer by, and we'll accept or counter, or argue amongst ourselves

Actually, here's an offer: Two conscripts in every city, except Berlin, which has three, a Palace in Berlin, start in Republic, researching Democracy, and the same navy that Darius gave you. How's that sound to everyone?

	08-12-2002 09:10									#986
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Yes that sounds fine. Though I am not willing to budge completely on cities.

	08-12-2002 14:24									#987
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think an argument for having Germany get all its cities now and not later is that it won't have to burn improvements conquering them, and also that it wouldn't have to break off the alliances that were arranged in cheat mode in order to conquer them. It would be a ***** for everyone to have to recreate all of them with the AI, so it seems better to just give them the cities now since it can be done easily with the editors.

	08-12-2002 14:36									#988
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Just my 2 swiss "centimes" (or "Rappen"...) , as a "neutral witness":

I think that the progressive return to "independance" from Germany was an excellent idea, in a diplomatic way, but the fact that it would be really restraining for the new player has been neglected!

BUT, as this PBEM has taken a quite diplomatic turn in the last years, maybe a Germany re-creation in steps could still be acceptable for you, El Awrence?? The feel of it in the "story" of the game would be great!

Of course, I wouldn't be the one hindered by the limitations, and neither one of those having to work twice to give you back some cities ! So it's really easy for me to say so!!

It's up to you all, in conclusion, I would be glad anyway (what a good lad I am ... )

	08-12-2002 14:54									#989
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Cyrion's right, it has to be remembered that a human being will be taking this country, and it has to be worth a damn.

	08-12-2002 20:23									#990
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But Darius you seem to miss the point, that up until you conquered the cities for Germany, we were going to hand over all the cities at the proper stages vis a vis diplomacy where German and the other nation would be online and make the trade.