28-11-2002 06:10									#931
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Could I ask for a few things?

	28-11-2002 06:30									#932
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EL: No one's stopping you, we agreed to allow you input on this, it's just that we have veto power at this point, but so long as it's reasonable, I wouldn't arbitrarily say no to something.

	28-11-2002 07:28									#933
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The whole point of the Rhine frontier is that it works because river squares give an added defense bonus. So Anzac, I'm not going to move my forts off the river tiles.

As said before, France is standing firm by the proposed frontier at this point. We will of course be more than happy to consider amendments, should there be evidence after the restoration that the defense network hinders the operation of Germany as an independent nation. Should any alterations to the frontier then be necessary, they will be discussed by Germany and France, and at that later date. Theres no point discussing it further now, when there is no evidence that it is a bad thing at all.

El: like Kirk said, you should feel free to ask for anything you like... we can only attack and argue over proposals that are actually out in the open But if your requests are reasonable, France doesn't see why they shouldn't be fulfilled, thus promoting goodwill between Germany and the Allies.

Last edited by winterfritz on 28-11-2002 at 07:36

	28-11-2002 08:00									#934
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So what's going on with setting everything up at this point, is fritz supposed to play his turn, or are we waiting for something?

	28-11-2002 08:07									#935
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Case needs to play his turn first. Then I'll play mine, and then I'll set up Germany and post the save, allowing El to play his first turn.

	28-11-2002 08:23									#936
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Well, perhaps Germany can be given full fortifications and such to prevent another quick cluster****, as well as a formidable number of defensive units.

Regarding the Rhine, I'd like no more than one fortress every three squares and exclusive economic use of all the squares on the Rhine. Those with French fortresses can be compensated by using squares falling officially under French jurisdiction to be made usable to Germany.

	28-11-2002 08:52									#937
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El: you don't need to worry about Germany's safety. I know I'm not going to the trouble of bringing Germany back just to see it get gobbled up all over again.

About the Rhine: if its the frontier, then we should get half of the river squares each, as well as exclusive rights to the squares on our respective sides of the river. Your scheme would see Germany owning close to the entire river in addition to squares on the French side, and is both unfair and unacceptable to France.

Also, AFAIK the forts are distributed about 2-3 squares away from each other along the river, so the spacing should be roughly within your request.

	28-11-2002 09:24									#938
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Well, France is still keeping areas with lots of German nationals, it's only fair that Germany gets to exploit the river.

	28-11-2002 19:20									#939
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How about the Russian proposal of having forts on either side of the Rhine, but have the Rhine as a demilitarized zone?

	29-11-2002 03:05									#940
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The Italian government is willing to establish a mandate over the Rhine cities in order to create a DMZ between France and Germany

	29-11-2002 04:38									#941
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Fortresses on either side of the Rhine are fine by me.

	29-11-2002 04:46									#942
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France will not move her forts off the Rhine, where they will lose their river square defensive bonuses. There will be no DMZ. As stated previously, France will review the fortification system once there is actual evidence that it hinders the very existence of Germany as a viable nation state, but only then.

As for the German nationals... its an established precedent in this thread (see somewhere in the 50 odd pages ) that minorities within democratic governments (such as France) are more than adequately represented and not persecuted in any way. The ethnic Germans on the French side of the Rhine are very happy (latest poll: 91% very happy, 6% happy, 3% undecided) and couldn't give a damn whether they are administered from Paris or Berlin. Germany thus needs no 'compensation' for having lost German cities to France, Britain, Italy and Russia (meaning the cities which are not going to be given back in the restoration). So France stands by her earlier proposal, that France and Germany each get half of the Rhine squares and exclusive administration of the tiles on their respective sides of the river.

Last edited by winterfritz on 29-11-2002 at 04:56

	29-11-2002 06:51									#943
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Russia stands by the DMZ proposal. Any movement of combat units into that zone would result in war. It would serve as a buffer and would not block development.

Also France should give back the rights to the squares as control of those squares come and go with the cities. Also we are trying to reconcile, not incite here

Herr Awrence: when this game gets up to speed, where should we contact you at? An email might help.

	29-11-2002 06:56									#944
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*points to sig*

	04-12-2002 08:37									#945
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So.............................Case

	04-12-2002 14:46									#946
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Sorry, for some dumb reason I was waiting for Fritz to restore Germany before playing my turn. In fact, I was about to bump him!

----------

The Italian people grow more productive, with factories and dockyards opening across the nation.

Attachment: italy1907jan.net
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	05-12-2002 08:25									#947
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Ok, I have played my turn and returned Rostock, Magdeburg, Erfurt, Berlin, Dresden and Leipzig to Germany using CivTweak and CivCity.

One snag. I did all this by simply changing the file extension from .net to .sav, so that the utilities would recognise the file. But the .sav file still remembers the passwords, so I can't turn on cheat mode and get rid of the English/Russian conscripts still in the cities, or gift Germany techs, or destroy all France's enemies using ctrl-shift-D

Should we just give the techs to Germany the usual way during our turns? And have Britain and Russia hand over their conscripts too? And in that case, how will we give Germany her unique tech?

	05-12-2002 08:30									#948
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I am pretty sure I removed all my conscripts and left only the German-style ones there.

I guess if the passwords need to go, we should do that then. And yes, they should have the same techs as before they were anihilated

These Christmas smilies are great: I forgot about them

	05-12-2002 08:34									#949
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The conscripts are the German style; its just that you still own them, rather than Germany

	05-12-2002 08:35									#950
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Well, when the cities are handed over, they'll get them back.

	05-12-2002 09:35									#951
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You can turn on cheat mode when there are passwords, it's really, really simple. You should be able to do those changes without any external programs.

	06-12-2002 04:13									#952
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Yeah, I think he knows that, but was just asking permission first.

	06-12-2002 05:18									#953
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quote: Originally posted by The ANZAC Yeah, I think he knows that, but was just asking permission first.

Actually, I don't

So unless someone would care to enlighten me with the forbidden knowledge (like Prometheus ) I guess I'll just post the save and let someone else add techs etc.

	06-12-2002 05:38									#954
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Oops, forgot the file.

Attachment: fj1907.net
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	06-12-2002 05:54									#955
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Yeah Choke figured it out a few days ago, all it takes is a little intuition, no programs. What do you need done to it? I only need the French password and I can do it if you want.

As far as I can read:

1) As Germany, capture the indicated cities and cheat-build any improvements destroyed by their being captured.

2) Create an alliance between each nation and Germany.

3) Give the techless new Germany all the techs it had before being destroyed, plus a few more.*

* - What are the extra techs you guys think they should have?

Edits: added tasks as I read through the thread.

Last edited by Darius871 on 06-12-2002 at 06:13

	06-12-2002 06:08									#956
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Sure, that sounds fine, but we can just hand over the ciites diplomatically and that should work fine.

Also, no extra techs yet for Germany. Just the ones it had before

	06-12-2002 06:25									#957
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quote: Originally posted by The ANZAC Sure, that sounds fine, but we can just hand over the ciites diplomatically and that should work fine.

Fine either way, but if I just capture them and replace the destroyed improvements/units, you don't have to arrange meeting times.

	06-12-2002 06:30									#958
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Doesn't trading online destroy happines improvements anyway?

	06-12-2002 06:32									#959
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Nope, that's the advantage of doing it that way.

	06-12-2002 06:35									#960
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oh, well then I really don't care, if just taking them over and putting everything back's easier, then by all means do that though