14-01-2002 16:17									#1
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http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/12/re...atue/index.html

However where is the asian FF in all this? If they want to represent everyone I can bet there are asians in NY 11500 FF force. And who cares if there were three FF in the picture make four of them.

	14-01-2002 16:22									#2
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I so totally agree

And while they are at it, why not construct an airplane model so everyone knows who is the enemy

	14-01-2002 16:24									#3
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I am wandering if there is any arabs in the 11500?

Put them in the frame too. Don't discriminate.

	14-01-2002 16:29									#4
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they should rebuild WTC in different colours just to remind everyone aboutr what happened and how they must all stick together

	14-01-2002 17:33									#5
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Its ridiculous that something like this has to become politicized.

	14-01-2002 17:34									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Usually Insane they should rebuild WTC in different colours just to remind everyone aboutr what happened and how they must all stick together

Yeah, the old one was racist anyway because it was white...

	14-01-2002 17:36									#7
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I thought it was a nice idea that they're different colours.

	14-01-2002 17:40									#8
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon I thought it was a nice idea that they're different colours.

But why bother? Would we be less unified if all the men were white? It just seems silly to me.

	14-01-2002 17:57									#9
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I think one should be a firefighter, one a police officer (they died too) and the third a businessman (to represent the capitalist victims), ofcourse with different ethnic background. Just imagine the discussions about what colour what profession should be.

	14-01-2002 18:11									#10
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New York does have a high ethnic population though, doesn't it?

	14-01-2002 18:15									#11
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Good grief, the pc crowd likes to get their fingers on everything dont they.
Well, if were gonna be "PC" then me might as well go all out.

All 3 statures were men, where are the women?
Where are the american Indian firefighters?
What about all the passengers that died on the plane, where are they shown?
What about the pilots of those 2 planes, where are the pilots?
Looks to me like all 3 were straight, where are the gay firefighters?
That flag looks like an American flag, where are the flags of other countries that had people die Sept11th.

I could go on and on.
Being PC sucks!!!

	14-01-2002 18:21									#12
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Yes but the statue is being built according to a photo taken of three fireman lifting the flag. It happened that they were white.

If they did not like it why didn't they choose some other symbol or idea to make a statue? This will just remind everyone how sleazy the society has become.

	14-01-2002 18:29									#13
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They shouldn't forget to include the firefighter with the hearing problem.

'MR. PRESIDENT, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!'

	15-01-2002 09:58									#14
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The statue is supposed to honor the firefighters who died, including 12 who were black. It would be insulting to suggest that only white firefighters died.

I'm getting tired of the "PC" attitude that attacks any effort to honour those who are not white.

The statue is a work of art and that means the artist is allowed to exercise artistic licence. A sculpture is not supposed to be a perfect representation of life. What's next? People complaining that Picasso's paintings are not realistic?

As for the other victims: other statues can be made. This statue is being produced by the NYFD to honour NY firefighters.

	15-01-2002 10:09									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai The statue is supposed to honor the firefighters who died, including 12 who were black. It would be insulting to suggest that only white firefighters died.

The Iwo Jima memorial in Washington, D.C. features only white men. Is that somehow insulting to the rest of the men who died in that battle even though represents all of the Americans lost?

If the makers of the statue want to be politically correct, they shouldn't base their statue on a real photograph. Changing the photo, a small part of history, is unethical and just plain wrong.

	15-01-2002 10:16									#16
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what about a firefighter in a wheelchair?

	15-01-2002 10:16									#17
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I thought that one of the men depicted by the Iwo Jima Memorial was supposed to be a native American.

Why not put together a photomural of all the FF and police who died at the WTC. With digital editing they could be made to be seen as standing together for a group photograph.

	15-01-2002 10:24									#18
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The Iwo Jima memorial in Washington, D.C. features only white men. Is that somehow insulting to the rest of the men who died in that battle even though represents all of the Americans lost? If the makers of the statue want to be politically correct, they shouldn't base their statue on a real photograph. Changing the photo, a small part of history, is unethical and just plain wrong.

Actually, one of the men is a native Indian - Ira Hayes.

	15-01-2002 10:26									#19
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Edit: The point is that they didn't change the race of the men in the photograph to give a more representative sampling of the ethnicities of the men that died at the battle or even those that died in the Pacific War.

Last edited by DinoDoc on 15-01-2002 at 10:36

	15-01-2002 10:47									#20
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Tingkai -

quote: I'm getting tired of the "PC" attitude that attacks any effort to honour those who are not white. The statue is a work of art and that means the artist is allowed to exercise artistic licence. A sculpture is not supposed to be a perfect representation of life. What's next? People complaining that Picasso's paintings are not realistic?

Then let the artist and the person paying for it decide. They did, they chose to portray the event as it happened - with 3 white guys. That's why some in the PC crowd is up in arms.

I have no problem with a statue portraying ethnic diversity, I just don't care if the guys are white, black, brown, or green...

	15-01-2002 11:01									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Tingkai - Then let the artist and the person paying for it decide. They did, they chose to portray the event as it happened - with 3 white guys. That's why some in the PC crowd is up in arms. I have no problem with a statue portraying ethnic diversity, I just don't care if the guys are white, black, brown, or green...

You have things backwards.
From CNN: "The decision to represent different races was made by the Fire Department, the makers of the statue, and the property-management company that owns the department headquarters building and commissioned the work."

"Given that those who died were of all races and all ethnicities and that the statue was to be symbolic of those sacrifices, ultimately a decision was made to honor no one in particular, but everyone who made the supreme sacrifice," Fire Department spokesman Frank Gribbon said.

The "really PC" crowd is up in arms because the statue portrays people of different colour. What they want is the all-white version.

But we are talking about Americans so this isn't the end. The three firefighters in the photograph have hired a lawyer to demand that their faces be used for the sculpture. Talk about grandstanding.

	15-01-2002 11:09									#22
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This is disgusting utterly repulsive. that they would alter the statue for political correctness! Ya,ya, we know 5.5% of the FD was not white.....we know a handful died... and rightfully they will be honored. but if the picture was.....what it was. then thats what it was. the firefighters who raised that flag on the smoldering rubble dont deserve this crap.


But honest to god...this is nothing short of vandalism. The picture, was fine the way it was.



now its just a big lie.



it does not seem to matter cause the copyrights to the photo arent owned by the FD. So.....nice clay mock-up, but we want the real thing! Next!!

	15-01-2002 11:16									#23
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Ya,ya, we know 5.5% of the FD was not white.....we know a handful died... and rightfully they will be honored.

But not in the statue honouring those who died? That makes no sense.

	15-01-2002 11:58									#24
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Okay, everyone knows that the statue is based on the photo--right down to the folds in the flag and the looks on the mens' faces. Everyone knows who those men are. Now, imagine years from now, when these men take their grandchildren to see the statue:

"There it is"

"That statue is of you, Grandpa?"

"Yep, the three of us"

(long pause)

"Grandpa, are you the black one, or the hispanic one?"

	15-01-2002 12:08									#25
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If they put a Pole, a Jew and an Irishman on there people could make up jokes easier.

	15-01-2002 14:39									#26
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this is bullsh!t

yet people try to justify this bullsh!t.

Yes I know about "artistic liscence"

But as far as I know everything else is supposed to be the same. Except the races. What about the child of the firefighter who is in the picture. how can he go up to the statue and say that is my dad. His friends will laugh at him and kick his a$$.

And I heard (don't know if it is true) that the artist was influenced by certain people to make the statue have different races.

And what about the gay firefighters? this is an insult to them. I want to see a gay firefighter statue dammit!!!

	15-01-2002 14:44									#27
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Is it some kind of coincidence that the Apolytoners who are upset over this are white?

So the statue is based on a photograph doesn't mean the statue is the photograph. Not that it is physically possible.

	15-01-2002 14:46									#28
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Tingkai -

quote: You have things backwards. From CNN: "The decision to represent different races was made by the Fire Department, the makers of the statue, and the property-management company that owns the department headquarters building and commissioned the work."

Not true, the man - Ratner - who was paying for it didn't want it changed. These other groups only asked for the change after pressure from others.

quote: The "really PC" crowd is up in arms because the statue portrays people of different colour. What they want is the all-white version.

Not true, if 3 black men, or ethnically diverse men, had been photographed raising the flag, then they should have been depicted raising the flag. Their skin color is irrelevant...

quote: But we are talking about Americans so this isn't the end. The three firefighters in the photograph have hired a lawyer to demand that their faces be used for the sculpture. Talk about grandstanding.

They were the ones raising the flag, should they/we ignore the fact the statue won't reflect what they did?

	15-01-2002 14:47									#29
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so are you calling me a racist?

because I am white, I can't have a problem with the artwork?

I suppose if I was black, it would be OK for me to critisize the artist changing of the historical account.

It is people like you that are the problem.

and I am native american as well, but I suppose that doesn't matter to you because my skin is white.

	15-01-2002 14:57									#30
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UR -

quote: Is it some kind of coincidence that the Apolytoners who are upset over this are white?

Given the fact virtually all apolytoners are "white", this "coincidence" is problematic. I find it interesting that the PC leftists seem to care more about skin color than the truth though.

quote: So the statue is based on a photograph doesn't mean the statue is the photograph.

Yeah, the fact the statue just happens to look like the photograph is just another coincidence