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Pfanner
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For Germany:
Karl Martell(totally underrated) He stoped the invasion of the Arabs in 700
Friedrich II. (the great) Prussian King 1740.
Erwin Rommel (WW2) War in Africa
Guderian or Manstein 2 generals in ww2(but u wouldn't say heros)
Karl the Great, the first German Kaiser at 800
Some Siencetist or great Artist:
Johann Wofgang Goethe, Friedrich Schiller, Einstein, ludwig van Beethoven, Wehner von Braun, Oppenheimer , etc
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Manstein3
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well, for Germany, if only warriors to be named:
- 7 p.CHR. Arminius, or Hermann the Cherusker, who destroyed three Roman Legions in the Battle of the 'Teutoburger Forest'. The Romans gave up all land east of the Rhine because of that and never came over the loss of their legions.
- ~800 Karl the Great, or Charlemagne, as the French call him. (At that time, France and Germany were united in Karls Franconian Empire. France is named after it, as well as Franken, a German province.
Karl conquered Saxon, Friesen, a part of Spain, the kingdom of the German tribe Langobarden in the later Lombardy (in Northern Italy). The Pope declared him follower of the Roman Caesars, he made a peace treaty with Konstantinople, ...
- ~1200 Friedrich I 'Barbarossa', lived in Sicily, conquered and owned an Empire between the Northern Sea and Sicily
- Friedrich II the Great ~ 1770 made the Prussian army the best in the World, fought a successful war (though much luck) allied to Britain against Russia, Austria, France, who were twenty times superior in numbers.
- 1810 Gneisenau, first who was equal to Napoleon in strategic mastership
- 1940 Guderian: Creator of the tank weapon as a decisive strategic tool (maybe his luck was being the first one of an elite club of generals going to war: de Gaulle had the same ideas in France, but could not get over First-World-War-concepts of the French Marshalls, Zhukov had same ideas, but the Sovjet army also used tanks as tactical, not strategical weapon, Patton had the same ideas, but was sitting on his back somewhere in Arizona waitin to be needed...)
- Manstein 1940: great strategist, made the plan of the France-Offensive and several masterly handled battles in Russia against a 10 times superior enemy.
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Manstein3
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about Karl Martell and Karl the Great: I agree in the important role of the first. I hesitated though to put him on a list of German warriors because despite of the fact that he was of Franconian, Germanic blood, the centre of his kingdom lay in the later France:in Reims, Soissons, Paris, Orleans and Tours.
He somehow created the split between France and Germany because he gave the West ('France': Neustrien, Burgund, Provence) to his son Pippin, and the East ('Germany`: Austrien, Schwaben, Thüringen) to his son Karlmann. Bavaria and Aquitania they shared, Saxon they conquered...
Karlmann resigned later. Pippins son Karl the Great had the united kingdom again. But now the centre was far more east, at the Rhine, in Aachen, Trier, Köln, Mainz. Therefore he is with better arguments to be named a German than a French king. The definite split cam after Karls death: a West-Franconian kingdom was declared and an east-Franconian kingdom...
Rommel was a great tactical troop commander with individual bravery.
Guderian was almost the same bold panzer-Raider, but he had the idea of panzer-Raids. so somehow he's superior, I think.
France had Vercingetorix, a brave, but unsuccessful leader against the Roman conquerors. They have Karl Martell and Charlemagne. (some of them may claim them, I think).
Cardinal Richelieu, quite unique, was a (un)famous diplomat and got provinces without battles, for example paid the Swedish to wage war (30 years war) against the German Kaiser, then got the land west of the Rhine easily because of the weakness of the Holy Roman Empire, vulgo Germany.
Napoleon.
Well, after that, the French weren't so lucky in battles...
de Gaulle
The British: Albin, who defeatet the Danish-Viking invasion around 500, I think. William the Conqueror, a Viking who finally succeeded... at 1066.
1588 Admiral Francis Drake defeated teh spanish Armada: Beginn of British naval power and Empire, beginning of the end of Spanish Empire...
Cromwell, who defeatet the Scots 1648, but was generally a civil war hero.
1805 Admiral Nelson (at Trafalgar) defeats Napoleons Navy, prevents an invasion of England.
1815 Wellington (along with the Prussian Generals Gneisenau and Blücher) defeats Napoleon at Waterloo.
The British Generals of the First World War are all infamous because of their habit to expose thousands and thousands of pathetic infantry men without shelter the machin guns of the enemy. No military genius in the First World War, on no side of the trenches...
Second World War. Despite Montgomery and the fact that Churchill was never leader in command I would vote for him, because of his crucial decisions to spare the British fighters, not use them in the Battle of France and the German Bombing Offensive. This prevented the invasion of Britain!
Romans?
Caesar, who conquered Gallia and was a genius in warfare and a charismatic leader.
many many others. difficult to decide who s most important
have to think about it...
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Manstein3
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Arminius' 'victory in the Teutoburger Forest was 7 post Christum, in the year seven after Christs birth, not in the VII. century BC
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:17
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Great British/English heroes?
As reflects the U.U., a naval list should come first- starting with Alfred the Great. Then we could skip forward to Elizabethan times, and Sir Francis Drake, Lord Howard of Effingham, Martin Frobisher and John Hawkins.
Then the Parliamentary/Restoration forces, with George Monck, Duke of Albemarle, Admiral Robert Blake, Prince Rupert of the Rhine, and Admiral Sir William Penn.
As for WWI commanders, I do think T.E. Lawrence deserves at least a mention for the daring attack on Aqaba, and for inspiring the revolt in the Hejaz. Similarly, Field Marshal Sir Edmund Allenby, for his campaign against the Ottomans in the Middle East.
Field Marshal Slim and Major-General Orde Wingate are also notable for the Burmese/Indian campaigns in WWII.
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hetairoi22
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In an apartment with my Norwegian family
Jun 2001
time: 06:17
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Roman - Scipio Africanus. Won famous victory versus the Carthaginian leader Hannibal in the battle of Zama (202 BC) and thus ended the Second Punic War.
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Roman - Laelius, Gaius "d. after 160, BC
Roman general and politician who contributed to Roman victory during the Second Punic War (218-201) between Rome and Carthage.
Owing his political advancement to his friend, the renowned commander Scipio Africanus, Laelius accompanied Scipio on his Spanish campaign (210-206). While in Africa with Scipio from 204 to 202, Laelius defeated the Numidian prince Syphax, an ally of the Carthaginians, and commanded the cavalry in Scipio's decisive victory over Hannibal at Zama (now in Tunisia; 202). After the war Laelius advanced from aedile (197) to praetor (196) to consul (190). In 160 he met Polybius and supplied the historian with a great deal of information about the life of Scipio Africanus.
quote from "Encyclopedia Britannica".
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Roman - Corbulo, Gnaeus Domitius Roman general who restored Roman control over Armenia in 47 AD.
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Roman - Arbogast "d. Sept. 8, 394
barbarian general of the Roman Empire, the first to establish a Roman nominee of his own as a puppet emperor.
Probably of Frankish descent, he rose to the rank of magister equitum ("master of the cavalry") in the Western Roman army and was sent by the emperor Gratian, in 380, to assist the Eastern ruler Theodosius against the Goths in Thrace. He remained in the service of Theodosius. In 388, after the defeat in Italy of the usurper Magnus Maximus by Theodosius, Arbogast recovered Gaul for the Western emperor Valentinian II from Maximus' son, Flavius Victor. The following year Arbogast pacified the Rhine frontier, imposing a treaty on the Frankish leaders Marcomer and Sunne, who had invaded Gaul in 384.
By 391 the general had become all-powerful in Gaul as comes ("count") and regent. When Valentinian attempted to dismiss him, Arbogast declared that only Theodosius possessed the power to do so. On May 15, 392, Valentinian died at Vienna (modern Vienne, Fr.) in circumstances suggestive of murder instigated by Arbogast. Proclaiming Eugenius, a professor of rhetoric, as emperor in the West, Arbogast--who admired the Roman Republic and despised the quarrels between Roman Catholic and Arian Christians--set about restoring paganism. In the winter of 393-394, he conducted a successful campaign against the Ripuarian Franks, the Chamavi, and along the Rhine, but the following May, Theodosius marched west to suppress the pagan revolution. A two-day battle ended in victory for Theodosius. Eugenius was beheaded; Arbogast committed suicide. " -quote from "Encuclopedia Britannica"
SOme Ideas for Roman generals.
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Rosacrux
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In a Galaxy far, far away...
Oct 2001
time: 05:17
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Some Greek heroes:
- Achilleas (the legendary warlord mentioned in Homers Iliad, great warrior and greater lover... the Greek way of course  )
- Leonidas (the King of Sparta, the one who led 300 Spartans and 700 Thespians against an army of 500.000 and died in full glory among his men).
- Pericles (the head of the Athenian state, the "Golden Age" of the Athenian Democracy named after him. Not a warmonger, but in his times the Peloponesian war started)
- Themistokles (the man who invented the Greek navy - the same man who managed to lead a fleet of 300 triremes that exterminated the might of the great Persian warfleet)
- Belisarius (a great military leader, Greek by no doubt, fought for Justinian and reclaimed the Italian peninsula and north Africa for the Byzantine empire)
- Basil Bulgaroctonos (the great leader of Byzantium, who managed to defeat all the enemies of the empire and restore it's former glory)
- Kolokotronis (the greatest hero of the Greek revolution after 1821, led the struggle for Greek independance)
- Pavlos Melas (the greatest hero of the Macedonian Wars in the early 20th century. Led the Greek troops who defended the Greek province of Macedonia against the Bulgarian invaders).
If you need more, just ask...
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Plan Austral
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Poster Formerly known as Kublai-Khan. Buenos Aires - Argentina.
Oct 2001
time: 05:17
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I hope this is useful, if you want i can ask in civfanatics to same people about chinese leaders.
And excuse me, i know my english sucks.
Persian Leaders.
Cyrus the great-
he unified the different persian tribes to form the persian empire, he conquered Lydia and Babylon.
Cambyses II-
Son of Cyrus the great, for a while he was the satrap of Babylon, but when his father died he became the ruler.
His biggest achieve was the conquest of Egypt.
Darius the great-
He was the successor of Cambyses II,he conquered the Indus Valley (half of India), Thracia and the greek cities in the turkish coast.
Itaphrenes-He killed the Magi Gaumata and helped Darius to became king,(It is a large story), after Darius accession, many satrapies revolted, including Babylon, Itaphrenes suppressed the revolt. After that he became the second most important man of the kingdom, Darius later killed him becouse Itaphrenes was just to powerful.
Datis- One of the most important Persian generals of Darius, he was the one who participated in the Battle of Marathon.
Mithrades- Parthian king (something like the secon persian empire), he conquered media, elam and babylon.
Shapur- sassanid(sp?) king,It would be like the third persian empire after the parthians.During his wars against Roman emperor Gordian III was killed, and emperor Valerian was captured! completely humiliating Rome.
Megabazus, another persian general of Darius, he fought against the scythians, he conquered some cities in Thrace and conluded a treaty with Macedonia wich became a vassal kingdom.
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:17
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1. Albin - VI century
2. William the Conqueror - XI century
3. Richard "Lion Heart" - XIII century
4. other crusade period heroes if be mentioned (Howard of Effingham or someone else)
5. Martin Frobisher - but I would like to hear more about his records
6. William Wallace - XIV century
7. Wellington - XIX century
8. Montgomery - XX century
Sorry, but who is Albin in the 6th Century in English/British history?
Although I have reservations about listing William the Conqueror as an English/British hero, I feel that Richard the Lionheart would be better replaced by a more successful king and commander- such as Edward I, Edward III, Henry V. Richard was rarely at home during his reign, and also present/responsible for some decidedly unchivalrous behaviour in the campaigns in the Holy Land.
Now as to the maritime heroes, my reasoning went along the lines that after the Hundred Years' War, and more especially after the loss of Calais during the reign of Mary Tudor, English disengagement from the continent meant that success/expansion had to be sought overseas, whether through a policy of (im)plausible deniability under Elizabeth I, or through aggressive expansion as part of government policy, under the Republic/Commonwealth and later under William and Mary, and Queen Anne and the Hanoverians. This being the case, the naval heroes tying in with the English U.U., seemed a reasonably good choice.
Thus:
George Monck
http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/people/A0833687.html
As much a survivor and politician as Talleyrand in France, and an able commander, both at sea and on land.
See also http://members.tripod.com/~Strathbo...ar_article.html
his part in the victory at Dunbar over the Covenanters, and his formation of the Coldstream Guards.
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:17
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4. other crusade period heroes if be mentioned (Howard of Effingham or someone else)
5. Martin Frobisher - but I would like to hear more about his records
6. William Wallace - XIV century
Lord Admiral Howard was commander of the English Fleet that defeated the Armada:
Nottingham, Charles Howard, 1st earl of,
1536-1624, English nobleman. A member of one of the branches of the Howard family, he succeeded his father as Baron Howard of Effingham in 1573. He was first cousin to Queen Elizabeth I, to whom he rendered distinguished service-military, naval, and civil. Appointed (1585) lord high admiral, he commanded the English fleet that defeated the Spanish Armada (1588) and shared command (with the 2d earl of Essex) of the expedition against Cádiz (1596). He was created (1597) earl of Nottingham and in 1599 was given command of both land and sea forces. Nottingham continued his service under James I, remaining lord high admiral until 1619.
Martin Frobisher, explorer, sometime privateer, and naval commander during the Armada:
http://www.pbs.org/empireofthebay/p.../frobisher.html
Frobisher, Sir Martin , 1535?–1594, English mariner. He went to sea as a boy, and spent much of his youth in the African trade. He later gained the friendship of Sir Humphrey Gilbert, through whom he became interested in the Northwest Passage. Licensed by Queen Elizabeth I and backed by a group of merchant adventurers, Frobisher made three voyages (1576, 1577, and 1578) to the arctic regions in search of the passage. On his first voyage he sailed into Frobisher Bay to S Baffin Island, and from its shores brought back some black ore thought to contain gold and an Eskimo to prove his belief that he had actually reached fabled Cathay. Returning to Baffin Island on his next two journeys, he explored Frobisher Bay to its head and penetrated a short distance up Hudson Strait. Since his geographical discovery was slight and no gold was revealed in his cargoes of ore, Frobisher's name was discredited for a time. However, he won new glory in 1585 as commander of a ship in Sir Francis Drake's expedition to the West Indies and was knighted for his services with Drake and Sir John Hawkins in the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588. He died as the result of wounds received at Brest during an English campaign against the Spanish. The narratives of his voyages, first published in 1578, have passed through several editions. The Three Voyages of Martin Frobisher by George Best was edited from the original 1578 text by Vilhjalmur Stefansson (1937).
Out of respect to the Scots posters, I should point out that William Wallace is not an English hero....
'With the phenomenal success of Stirling Bridge under his belt, Sir William Wallace, Guardian of the Realm of Scotland, continued his campaign of guerilla warfare upon the Northern English counties.'
from http://members.aol.com/skyewrites/menu8.html
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EarnhardtFan
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For My games, I fill the list of German heroes with Generals from World War II.
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Deity Montezuma
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Oxnard, Ca.
Jan 2002
time: 21:17
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For Aztec
1.Cuauhtemoc
2.Cuitlahuac
3.Moctezuma not Montezuma
4.Tizoc
5.Itzcoatl
6.Huitzilihuitli
Or if you are like me i traded the Aztec's for the Mexican's.
The leader's names are
1.Agustin De Iturbe (1st pres. of Mexico)
2.Miguel Hidalgo (father of the independence)
3.Benito Juarez (the battle against the invading french on the 5th of may ocurred)
4.Pancho Villa (Revolutionary hero)
5.Emiliano Zapata (Revolutionary hero)
6.General Santa Anna
7.Maria Morelos
This is a quick list..
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Sir Ralph
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Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by El Awrence
Germans- I don't see why you can't use successful generals of the Wermacht during the 3rd Reich period. They were generals, they were successful and many of them were war heroes. What about Schlieffen? von Tirpitz or von Spee could be an idea (pity he as an Admiral so he doesn't really count). |
Although I don't like it much, I'd agree with Manstein, Rommel and may be Guderian, they were great generals, but would vehemently complain if anybody would call Reichsmarschall Goering (Chief of Luftwaffe and one of Hitler's inner circle), Sepp Dietrich (Leader of the SS division Leibstandarte "Adolf Hitler") or others alike "German heroes". About Schlieffen: If you need a leader from the German imperial period, rather take Helmuth Graf von Moltke, he at least won his campaigns. Schlieffen was not very successful with his WWI strategies. Von Tirpitz and von Spee were naval leaders and IMHO are out.
OT (edit): Heck, did anybody have 8 leaders in his games? I often play with militaristic trait and had at most 3 or 4 in a game (don't remember exactly, as they don't have a long life expectancy in my games).
Last edited by Sir Ralph on 17-01-2002 at 16:03
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Rosacrux
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In a Galaxy far, far away...
Oct 2001
time: 05:17
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Well, yes of course there are more great leaders or heroes in the ancient Greek world, but by giving you those 8 names I just wanted to make sure that a)the whole span of Greek history (and not only ancient Greece) would be represented and b)that you get the most outstanding guys.
About Achileas... well, yes, there is this little question about the accuracy of the Iliad (the ransack of Troy IS a historical fact, see Sleemans work) and the names it contains.
Problem is, if you take him out, you leave a large portion of Greek military history (the Achean era) without representation.
Viables alternatives for the ancient era (instead of Achilles and Themistokles) :
Dionysios of Syracusae, the man who leaded the great city-state of Syracusae at it's peak, created a little empire, defeated Karthago etc. etc.
As a viable alternative, for the ancient times, you can use Pyrrhos, the King of Hepirus who invaded the Italian peninsula, beated the Romans, but had to return due to the lack of adequate forces before ransacking Rome (hence "Pyrrheus victory" - the victory you have to pay for with great losses).
He was also the first to use war elephants in the "West"
Or you could try Andiochos the Great, a leader of the hellenistic kingdom of the Seleukides, famous for his many military feats.
...the list is really endless.
But, please, keep the proportion 4 ancient - 2 Byzantine - 2 modern Greek. It's representative to the whole span of the Greek history.
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15-01-2002 02:10
)
)? You could also even add William of Orange to the list of English heroes, as he lead the "Glorious Revolution" if I'm not mistaken. We could even add whoever commanded the troops that burnt Washington in the war of 1812. 
but I repeat - I completely out of politic and have only one criteria - military records, mostly victorious)
) and thus I decided that 8 will be quite enough for all civs (even military)
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