24-01-2002 01:17									#61
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I wonder if it dawned on any of these cheering Somalis that this movie may put more pressure on the Bush administration to move Somalia up higher on the list of "countries to crush".

I doubt many Somalis want to see us again.

	24-01-2002 02:50									#62
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 BTW I know this would sound harsh but it sounded like a badly planed operation.

If you think that's harsh, you probably don't want to hear my view of it.

quote: But in this instance and from the few things I have heard about it, it seems to me that this was an instance where the US really did try to help without having an agenda of its own... So I guess I'm sorry that these things happened. Maybe when the euro-army will be cemented you can just say "do it yourselves and see how it goes".

It started that way, but it's very hard to be in a situation like that without taking decisive action. The famine was a weapon for Aidid's people.

quote: I think that a very large part of the US military officials had very strong reservations about doing it. And that it was the Clinton administration (good intentions - wrong choices in that matter) who forced the military to go there no matter what.

Somalia is one of the major reasons why the US military has such an aversion to "peacekeeping" missions. Diplomats seem to have a total refusal to recognize that when you need "peacekeepers" it's because the two or more sides can't be trusted to adhere to the agreements negotiated by their leaders. That requires a lot more response than a token military presence with restrictive rules of engagement.

quote: Isn't it also true that in Somalia the Al Qaeda has a large following?

Southern Somalia is pretty lawless - anybody can find a place to hide and do their thing there, in return for a little cash or assistance to the locals, and there is a little bit of a hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism, but by themselves they don't have the wherewithal to do anything. So al Qaeda is a perfect fit.

quote: This whole region seems like a volcano that explodes from time to time and whoever happens to be there gets fried.

Yep, and the peaceful farmer tribes most of all. They have a fundamentally miserable existence.

BTW - Aidid is now dead (since 96, not soon enough), but his son, an ex-US Marine, now runs his little fiefdom. The Aidid's run Mogadishu, but once you get a little ways outside the city, they're nothing. A lot of the Mogadishu populace are just along for the ride - Aidid's people are the only power there, and there are no restraints on what they do, so it's hard to separate the dedicated followers from the rest, unless you know their clan and tribal ties.

	24-01-2002 03:15									#63
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I see.
Doesn't the Somali government try to enforce its laws everywhere in that country?

Is it pro-western? Does it have real power to do it?

Because if this is not the case and Al Qaeda is looking for refuge (although I think you have kicked the sh!t out of them) Somalia sounds ideal for that sort of thing.

	24-01-2002 03:20									#64
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Doesn't the Somali government try to enforce its laws everywhere in that country?

Somali government???

	24-01-2002 03:46									#65
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I see. Doesn't the Somali government try to enforce its laws everywhere in that country? Is it pro-western? Does it have real power to do it?

As far as I know Somalia is basically in a state of anarchy where he who has the most weapons/men decides what the people with less weapons/men do by virtue of implementation of brute force.

And it wouldn't surprise me if some of these warlords accepted large amounts of cash from Bin Laden to enable him to have his little training camps there.

	24-01-2002 03:50									#66
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Ok.

	24-01-2002 03:59									#67
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BTW wasn't it in Somalia that those bastard-sub-human-not worthy to live- Italian "soldiers" tortured young Somali women for fun and for "relieving their stress"?

With peacemaking worms like this no wonder Somalis are anti-western.

If there was a death penalty in Europe it should have been used for them and their like.

	24-01-2002 04:02									#68
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 BTW wasn't it in Somalia that those bastard-sub-human-not worthy to live- Italian "soldiers" tortured young women for fun and for "relieving their stress"? With peacemaking worms like this no wonder Somalis are anti-western. If there was a death penalty in Europe it should have been used for them and their like.

Yep, don't you just love those Italians... They must be just about the most inherently racist country in Europe. Case in point: Lazio fans.

	24-01-2002 04:02									#69
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And also I think it was in Somalia that some also bastard-sub-humans tortured american soldiers also? Or they dragged them by ropes from jeaps?

	24-01-2002 04:05									#70
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quote: Originally posted by lightblue Yep, don't you just love those Italians... They must be just about the most inherently racist country in Europe. Case in point: Lazio fans.

Some rotten apples cannot characterize a whole country.

	24-01-2002 04:08									#71
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And the Canadian Airborne Brigade had a little barbecue with a few Somali youth they held over a fire for a while.

And part of the reason for these atrocities were the constant sniping, mortaring, ambushing, spying, and the attacks on and mutilation of soldiers of the Pakistani battalion, etc.

Yes, the conduct of the soldiers in question was beyond any scale of acceptable military conduct. And no doubt, some of the troops involved were pure bastards to start. But Somalia (especially on peacekeeping and related duties) is a festering, soul-draining, brain-curdling shithole, that no living being deserves to have to go to or live in. Spend some time there before you judge them that harshly, but yes, they deserved punishment for those acts.

Also don't forget that women and kids are used as combatants there by their men.

	25-01-2002 01:41									#72
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quote: Go **** yourself repeatedly. It might eventually trickle in and mix with what little you've got for brains, and give you a second point of IQ to go with the one point you have, asswipe.

Oh please! What's wrong Mike? Can't take a little beating!? Did I insult your national pride!? After September 11th, you Americans certainly have an attitude problem. But didn't that moron Bush say, "If you're not with us, you're against us"? You are such hypocrits! I slam Americans and you all share the opinion that I'm stupid. Fine, but you guys constantly slam the Somalis and someone here even called them cockroaches! That's not much different from my posts slamming the Americans.

Don't take it too harshly my friend! If you ridicule the rest of the world, don't be surprised if someone ridicules and has some fun with you once in a while. Then again, I can't expect anything different from a group of American posters.

------------------
~Emperor Dominik~

	25-01-2002 02:00									#73
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Dom.....your slamming americans because we went into somalia with good intetions and wanted to do nothng but feed the people. That was it...we didnt give a damn about the Civil War. We escorted our food shipments and at first, everything was goi ng well.

Then they armed groups starte killing the UN escorts and stealing them. Aidaid was behind that. We tryed to stop him......so we are the bad guys I guess


You can go to hell Dominiko's.

	25-01-2002 02:16									#74
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quote: You can go to hell Dominiko's.

Wohoo! Let's see who can get there first!

quote: so we are the bad guys I guess

You're always the good guys! When was the last time the Americans did not see themselves as saviours!?!?

You even go so far as to claim that you won WWII! Oh no, I will probably get in trouble for this one!

You want everyone to agree with you. If you said something about Britain to a Brit, he would most likely laugh. If you did the same to an American, he would punch you in the face! Cool down! I prefer the British style, they certainly know how to laugh at themselves while you Americans just don't get it.

Spare me this!

------------------
~Emperor Dominik~

	25-01-2002 02:17									#75
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory You can go to hell Dominiko's.

Does he deliver?

	25-01-2002 03:08									#76
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quote: Originally posted by GP Does he deliver?

when did the sub ressurfaced?

	25-01-2002 04:13									#77
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I came up to persicope depth to send a radio message to Makeo. As soon as MTG acts on my "put me in the box" request, I'll be "running silent, running deep."

Anyway, how are you? Cool guys like you make me like the leftists a lot more.

	25-01-2002 04:21									#78
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Ok I guess. Much more tired than usual though.

I hope MtG doesn't get to it right away (executing the order of getting you back in the box I mean )

You know I also did a «GP»? (asked the Mods to lock my account?)

Yeah.. it lasted about 5 days

	25-01-2002 04:32									#79
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We are brothers in arms.

FYI: still want to show you a couple articles by a Greek journalist who got in trouble with the US for interviewing US Naval officers in the 60's. Thought it might interest you.

	25-01-2002 04:39									#80
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Sure. Can you send them by PM? Or here?

What was he/she intervieing them about? Why did he get into trouble?

	25-01-2002 04:56									#81
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Can't remember the whole thing. It was pretty interesting though, from perspective opf a journalist and what he reports, etc. More complex than the usual threads here though.

I'll look for it. Unfortunately it was in USNI Proceedings and i've lost my hard copy and don't have an on-line subscription.

	25-01-2002 05:04									#82
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quote: Originally posted by GP More complex than the usual threads here though.

That is not difficult


Trying to make a serious point here is like blasphemy

	25-01-2002 06:46									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Dominikos Oh please! What's wrong Mike? Can't take a little beating!?

Why don't you come down and let's set a time and place and you try to give me one, honey?

quote: Did I insult your national pride!?

No, you're a clueless goat****ing maggot. National pride isn't even on the radar screen on this one, as far as I'm concerned. The way good men were hung out to dry is a matter of national shame, but even that has nothing to do with my comments to you, asswipe. Try reading a little deeper.

quote: I slam Americans and you all share the opinion that I'm stupid.

Slamming Americans has nothing to do with it - your head is so far up and locked that all you can see is brown.

quote: Fine, but you guys constantly slam the Somalis and someone here even called them cockroaches!

Maybe you need some reading lessons - must be awful dark in there. And shove "you guys" up your ass where your head is. My comments stand on their own, and if you read them (two syllable words may be beyond you, but too bad) you'll see I distinguished rather precisely between the Somali people in general, and our specific enemies. Spend some time in Somalia.

quote: Don't take it too harshly my friend! If you ridicule the rest of the world,

I didn't.

quote: don't be surprised if someone ridicules and has some fun with you once in a while.

Go **** yourself and give yourself some brains.

	25-01-2002 06:58									#84
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Chegitz - so sorry, but you're full of ****. I'm surprised at you, too, because you had so much better of an opportunity to slam the US and you just frankly blew it.

Can't I just be flippant once in a while?

	25-01-2002 07:02									#85
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Yeah, but any true commie (or anyone else for that matter) had plenty of basis for ripping both superpowers in our 1970's to mid 1980's conduct in Somalia and elsewhere.

You just don't seem to have the zeal anymore - must be working too hard, making all that money as a member of the intelligentsia or something.

	25-01-2002 07:05									#86
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Slamming Americans has nothing to do with it - your head is so far up and locked that all you can see is brown.

Don't take this the wrong way, MtG, but given that his head is that far up his ass, all he can see is actually green. It doesn't become brown until it gets closer to the egress.

	25-01-2002 07:37									#87
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Yeah, but any true commie (or anyone else for that matter) had plenty of basis for ripping both superpowers in our 1970's to mid 1980's conduct in Somalia and elsewhere. You just don't seem to have the zeal anymore - must be working too hard, making all that money as a member of the intelligentsia or something.

Okay, honest answer is I don't have a lot of info on Somolia and don't have access to my old bookstore www.nwrc.net, since I'm 1,000 miles away now. Thought it was better to just be a smartass than act like I knew something I didn't. Plus, I've never seen a leftist analisys of the Somolia adventure that really satisified me.

I actually know a bit about the history of Somolia and the Horn of Africa as it relates to the Cold War (you left out the whole part of how Somolia was originally a Soviet client but switched when the USSR became chummy with Ethiopia - America was so happy to get the deep water port that the Soviets had built there). However, as it relates specifically to the US mission there, I don't know squat.

One of the things that I did hear from my comrades is that even during the height of the famine, Somolia still was producing enough food to feed itself (and exporting it to Europe) and one of the first jobs fo the marines was to guard the export warehouses (defending private property and all that). The cause of the famine wasn't so much war and drought as distribution. The poor farmers simply didn't have the resources to deal with the drought while the large landholders did.

Can't say for myself whether that's true or not. Maybe you could say.

	29-01-2002 00:39									#88
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quote: Why don't you come down and let's set a time and place and you try to give me one, honey?

That's a pretty bold statement!

quote: No, you're a clueless goat****ing maggot.

quote: your head is so far up and locked that all you can see is brown.

quote: Go **** yourself and give yourself some brains.

quote: Go **** yourself repeatedly. It might eventually trickle in and mix with what little you've got for brains, and give you a second point of IQ to go with the one point you have, asswipe.

MtG, you seem to be quite full of hate. It's amazing to see someone judge another person without even knowing them.
Every single one your statements has not been supported. You just pick offensive words out of a hat and throw them at me. Tell me MtG, why is it that you think I'm such an "asswipe"? You don't have to make such unwarranted comments. You aren't making an intelligent statement about yourself either, by casually throwing out such unreasonable words.

I came here to intentionally make a few silly comments (It's in my devious nature to do so) and I am confronted by someone who is quite confident in his personal physical force and throws out words without even thinking.

quote: Spend some time in Somalia.

Who knows, I might even be Somalian. I take it that you have been there. Please MtG, tell me (from your AMERICAN point of view, that is) what Somalia is like.

BTW, almost all who posted to this thread seem to be American. Gives me another insight into why they respond this way.

------------------
~Emperor Dominik~

	29-01-2002 00:42									#89
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Dominikos appears to be a more skilled version of Mark L/Spink.

	29-01-2002 01:06									#90
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No, MarkL/Spink aren't that tasteless.

I honestly feel sorry for Dom. Bringing popcorn and cheering at soldiers getting killed? He clearly lacks all humanity, and is nothing more than a pathetic, bitter, shell of a human. He has the same respect for life the Nazis do. He furthermore obviously lacks even basic analytical abillity, not being able to see the difference between insulting our Somali enemies and the Somali people. It must be hard to be as dumb as his posts show him to be. I honestly feel sorry for Dom, having to go through life as a pathetic, hateful, idiotic piece of human trash.