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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:17
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Now do that shuffle, and fetch me a glass of lemonade while your at it.
"You know, funny thing about those black jelly beans. No matter how you shake 'em, they always end up on the bottom of the bag" - Texaco exec at senior level executive meeting, to a roomful of white males who laughed at the joke til they found out in court that they were recorded, and their lawyers couldn't suppress the recording. 1990's
"Send this one the 'C letter' - we've already got enough nigger managers" - post-it note by Hewlett-Packard HR manager to his secretary, who dutifully sent the "C letter" (we'll keep your resume in our files blah blah) to a management applicant who had the "misfortune" of graduating from a black university. She also sent the post it note. HP's lawyers sent a check. 1980's
I've personally known two black friends who had "KKK" and "nigger" spraypainted on their homes as a "prank"
I've heard more white folk toss around the term "nigger" than I can count, but they be careful not to do it in front of the colored chilluns, less'n they get in trouble for it. 
Another guy I used to know is a senior paralegal, was office manager of a 140 lawyer law firm, and a professor. When he goes to downtown San Diego to his old law firm (in an expensive suit, silk tie, and looking like any other mid-level professional in his forties except for his white teeth in his black face, people act weird about getting in an elevator with him, stare straight ahead and don't respond if he simply greets someone with a "hello" or "good morning"
Don't tell me that there's no ongoing need for civil rights, from your white cracker ass view up there in Hogwallow, Wisconsin.
There is still plenty of racism and race discrimination against blacks and other minorities, and from what I've seen, more whites whining without basis about alleged reverse discrimination than minorities whining without basis about direct discrimination. The people of whatever color milking the situation to mask their inadequacies are probably not that out of proportion from one race to another.
There are always losers looking for someone else to blame for their problems - those come in all colors. That doesn't mean that their ain't a hell of a lot of real discrimination that goes on all the time.
Now git me that lemonade, boy, don't just stand there.
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faded glory
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This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:17
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That there lemonade is very bitter, almost like the truth. Too bitter to taste...
In case you havent noticed, this thing called affirmitive. It rapidly promotes african americans within corporations. Regardless of there productivity. They are promoted simply because the big-wigs at the top, know they will recieve blessing from lawmakers for doing it. Wether or not you call that legal discrimination..or whatever. I dont care. The fact is white people/asians/etc could work a hell of a lot harder and not be promoted...because the black guy got it, why? cause he was black. That is not discrimination you say?
quote:
"You know, funny thing about those black jelly beans. No matter how you shake 'em, they always end up on the bottom of the bag" - Texaco exec at senior level executive meeting, to a roomful of white males who laughed at the joke til they found out in court that they were recorded, and their lawyers couldn't suppress the recording. 1990's |
Many blacks call themelves "Niggers" So now, when a white says it...its suddenly offensive? Whats this? A Double-Standerd of oppurtunism I smell!
quote:
Another guy I used to know is a senior paralegal, was office manager of a 140 lawyer law firm, and a professor. When he goes to downtown San Diego to his old law firm (in an expensive suit, silk tie, and looking like any other mid-level professional in his forties except for his white teeth in his black face, people act weird about getting in an elevator with him, stare straight ahead and don't respond if he simply greets someone with a "hello" or "good morning" |
Oh yes.....and this has what to do with AA now? Im not denying people dont discriminate. But lets get one thing straight, that is not the root of all injustice.
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I've personally known two black friends who had "KKK" and "nigger" spraypainted on their homes as a "prank" |
Ya and if you have ever driven through the Bronx (south in particular) you will see the graffiti all over...Know what it says? "Die White boy! Die Jew boy!" Really......if you dont believe take a trip down there.... I havent been in awhile. But in the 80's it was everywhere.
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I've personally known two black friends who had "KKK" and "nigger" spraypainted on their homes as a "prank" |
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Don't tell me that there's no ongoing need for civil rights, from your white cracker ass view up there in Hogwallow, Wisconsin. |
Oh ya, white cracker my ass Oh look! Your ignorance is showing.....Better zip it up!
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There is still plenty of racism and race discrimination against blacks and other minorities, and from what I've seen, more whites whining without basis about alleged reverse discrimination than minorities whining without basis about direct discrimination. The people of whatever color milking the situation to mask their inadequacies are probably not that out of proportion from one race to another. |
Ya.......and having the government santion it is ok, right? Thats what affirmitive action is? Its denying the person more qualified...for a person of color. Hell...go talk to Sandy Wienburg of Coca-Cola. Poor lady waited 20 years to get a promotion. But the management: Ooops...theres this diversity law we have to abide bye. Sorry...ask again in 20 years!
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I've heard more white folk toss around the term "nigger" than I can count, but they be careful not to do it in front of the colored chilluns, less'n they get in trouble for it. |
Ya and there are more black people who say it then you can shake a stick at.....so its kind ofabsurd to say we cannot say it. When they say it...In fact, its bullshit. I say what I want. (Not that I say it anyway
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
To return to the topic at hand, why would anyone assume an anti-slavery museum would make whites feel bad? Whites didn't have slaves; for the most part, Southern middle- and upper-class whites had slaves. I'm white, but long about the time the Civil War started my own people were being emancipated -- from serfdom in Mother Russia. And given how the Irish were treated both by the Brits and when they came over, I would expect their descendents to identify with the slaves, not the masters. So what's the problem? Is it that such a museum would dump on what Southerners like to call (especially when defending the display of the stars and bars) their "culture and heritage"?  |
Well, if you haven't figured it out, I'm a southern boy. Most of the whites here (Cal's a Kiwi) who have an issue with the idea of this museum are not southern. Slavery IS part of southern (and not just southern) "culture and heritage" and the truth about it needs to be acknowledged.
Indentured and bonded servitude should also be covered in it as well, because the whole reason that we had African slaves here at all is because the white people scraped out of debtor's prison and lured with promises of passage from the mother country simply died off too fast when they were worked in the fields. African slaves survived much better, so they became the human "commodity" in demand moreso than white indentureds, who generally died so quickly the owner couldn't recover the cost of the voyage.
As far as the Stars and Bars, that needn't be defended, it is a First Amendment right, but I think good sense and simple courtesy should constrain where it is shown and in what circumstance.
I think there is room for concern in that many of the proponents of this museum are also prominent proponents of the perenniel reparation whine-fest, so no doubt many of them have their own agendas. IMO, the idea of the museum should be supported, but with a strict emphasis on historical accuracy and comprehensive treatment of the entirety of the issue.
If anyone is actually interested in slavery in the US, I highly recommend "Slaves in the Family" by Edward Ball.
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If nothing else, it would be a useful counter-balance to the South's innumerable plantation tours, already mentioned by Che. Plantations were forced labor sites, the equivalent of Nazi camps like Plaszow or Soviet gulags. Can you imagine touring a Nazi camp today and hearing only about the splendid parties the commandant threw?  |
Nice cheap shot, but there's a hell of a lot of archaeology going on in the south currently (by southern and southern educated archaeologists) looking at the ordinary lives of slaves and their roles in the plantation economy.
There's plenty of people who believe in or want to believe in a sanitary, whitewashed view of the past, but plenty of others trying to figuratively and literally dig up as much as we can learn about the way things were.
While you're on the subject of Nazi camps and gulags, let's not just concentrate on southern plantations and slaves - textile mills, coal mines, painting radium on watch dials, company towns, payment in scrip, etc. - there is a very broad scope for the most brutal and callous forms of exploitation of the laboring class in the US and western Europe.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by faded glory
That there lemonade is very bitter, almost like the truth. Too bitter to taste... |
Maybe you reached for the wrong glass. Where'd you get that "lemonade" from, anyways?
quote:
In case you havent noticed, this thing called affirmitive. It rapidly promotes african americans within corporations. Regardless of there productivity. They are promoted simply because the big-wigs at the top, know they will recieve blessing from lawmakers for doing it. Wether or not you call that legal discrimination..or whatever. I dont care. The fact is white people/asians/etc could work a hell of a lot harder and not be promoted...because the black guy got it, why? cause he was black. That is not discrimination you say? |
I've worked for two fortune 100 companies, each with over 25,000 employees on the site where I've worked, and worked at/been a consultant to several dozen other companies ranging from a few to a few thousand employees. Those type of quotas and quota based promotions are rare. There is a hell of a lot of verbage about every case where it happens, and lots of times, the people *****ing the loudest would never have got the job anyway.
You're so semi-literate I can't see you ever getting past being a gas-pumper, Steverino.
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Many blacks call themelves "Niggers" So now, when a white says it...its suddenly offensive? Whats this? A Double-Standerd of oppurtunism I smell! |
Many do not ever use the term. Perhaps your knowledge of black people is limited to watching MTV videos?
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Oh yes.....and this has what to do with AA now? Im not denying people dont discriminate. But lets get one thing straight, that is not the root of all injustice. |
We weren't talking AA, boy, I was talking about endemic and routine racism in people's daily lives.
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Ya and if you have ever driven through the Bronx (south in particular) you will see the graffiti all over...Know what it says? "Die White boy! Die Jew boy!" Really......if you dont believe take a trip down there.... I havent been in awhile. But in the 80's it was everywhere. |
So one fairly recent phenomenon excuses a legacy going back to "keeping 'em out of our neighborhoods?" Good job, boy. I don't remember many white people in south Bronx, but it's been a while since I was there. Were these messages of brotherly love put on white people's and jewish people's homes? Or just the routine chickenshit grafitti in the neighborhood? And sorry, o clueless cracker, but spraypainting "KKK" on the door of a black family's home in the middle of the night in a "white neighborhood" sends one hell of a different message than random tagging in a shithole like the south Bronx.
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Oh ya, white cracker my ass Oh look! Your ignorance is showing.....Better zip it up! |
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and it's duck season, then it's a duck. Or a gas-pumper. 
quote:
Ya.......and having the government santion it is ok, right? Thats what affirmitive action is? Its denying the person more qualified...for a person of color. Hell...go talk to Sandy Wienburg of Coca-Cola. Poor lady waited 20 years to get a promotion. But the management: Ooops...theres this diversity law we have to abide bye. Sorry...ask again in 20 years! |
Well, if it took her 20 years to get to someone's promotion list, she couldn't have had much on the ball. People fasttrack to CEO and CFO in not much more time than 20 years, and sometimes less. And the only reason for a racial preference in promotion in current law is because the company got nailed for past acts of discrimination in it's hiring and promotion practices. Most companies don't have that problem.
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Ya and there are more black people who say it then you can shake a stick at.....so its kind ofabsurd to say we cannot say it. When they say it...In fact, its bullshit. I say what I want. (Not that I say it anyway |
There is a slight difference. It takes more than a two-digit IQ to figure out though, so I won't hold your lack of understanding of such subtleties against you.
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Rufus T. Firefly
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is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:17
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Well, if you haven't figured it out, I'm a southern boy. Most of the whites here (Cal's a Kiwi) who have an issue with the idea of this museum are not southern. Slavery IS part of southern (and not just southern) "culture and heritage" and the truth about it needs to be acknowledged. |
Didn't know you were from the South, but that's just my point: most people here who are afraid that a slavery museum would somehow insult them seem to think they have more in common with Southern slaveholders than with slaves. I doubt that's true, unless you use skin color as your primary determinant of who you resemble.
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Indentured and bonded servitude should also be covered in it as well, because the whole reason that we had African slaves here at all is because the white people scraped out of debtor's prison and lured with promises of passage from the mother country simply died off too fast when they were worked in the fields. African slaves survived much better, so they became the human "commodity" in demand moreso than white indentureds, who generally died so quickly the owner couldn't recover the cost of the voyage.
As far as the Stars and Bars, that needn't be defended, it is a First Amendment right, but I think good sense and simple courtesy should constrain where it is shown and in what circumstance.
I think there is room for concern in that many of the proponents of this museum are also prominent proponents of the perenniel reparation whine-fest, so no doubt many of them have their own agendas. IMO, the idea of the museum should be supported, but with a strict emphasis on historical accuracy and comprehensive treatment of the entirety of the issue.
If anyone is actually interested in slavery in the US, I highly recommend "Slaves in the Family" by Edward Ball. |
Agreed on all points, especially the reading recommendation; I read it last year at my wife's urging (she uses it in one of her courses). It's terrific
quote:
Nice cheap shot, but there's a hell of a lot of archaeology going on in the south currently (by southern and southern educated archaeologists) looking at the ordinary lives of slaves and their roles in the plantation economy.
There's plenty of people who believe in or want to believe in a sanitary, whitewashed view of the past, but plenty of others trying to figuratively and literally dig up as much as we can learn about the way things were.
While you're on the subject of Nazi camps and gulags, let's not just concentrate on southern plantations and slaves - textile mills, coal mines, painting radium on watch dials, company towns, payment in scrip, etc. - there is a very broad scope for the most brutal and callous forms of exploitation of the laboring class in the US and western Europe. |
Didn't mean it as a cheap shot; maybe I went too far. But the fact is that I've been on several plantation tours, and slavery is always white-washed (pardon the pun). Even at the plantation that's run by the Williamsburg people, where the whole point is to show slave life, the darker truths are supressed (or so I learned from a William and Mary grad student I befriended there, who was immensely frustrated by what facts she was not allowed to tell the public). Plantations are important historical sites, but what's recovered there doesn't seem to make it into the presentations to the public. This is why the living history museum at Lowell, Mass., which doesn't sugar-coat the horrors of mill town life, is a great museum.
We're largely in agreementt, though, and I respect your positions in this thread. Hope I didn't step on your toes.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
Maybe he is just tired of the new American saying "look at me, I'm a victim". |
And a prime example are white people complaining about how they are victims of reverse discrimination. It is far easier to say "I didn't get into university because of I'm a victim of affirmative action" then to take responsibility for not studying hard enough. It is easier to say "I didn't get promoted because I'm not a black lesbian" rather than working harder for the next promotion.
Affirmative action covers a small percentage of the available jobs at any given moment. To sit there and complain about reverse discrimination is just a cop-out.
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Guynemer
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
And a prime example are white people complaining about how they are victims of reverse discrimination. It is far easier to say "I didn't get into university because of I'm a victim of affirmative action" then to take responsibility for not studying hard enough. It is easier to say "I didn't get promoted because I'm not a black lesbian" rather than working harder for the next promotion.
Affirmative action covers a small percentage of the available jobs at any given moment. To sit there and complain about reverse discrimination is just a cop-out. |
Exactly. White Americans are born with every opportunity in the world; outside of royalty, no other people have ever been so privledged. If you are unhappy with your station in life, it is not the fault of blacks, or the civil rights movement, or affirmative action. The fault is your own.
Do you honestly believe that more blacks get hired/promoted "because of" affirmative action than blacks who don't get hired at all/left behind because they are black? Forget the lemonade, Saddam. Try to find a clue instead.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:17
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Aside from me, how many true communists do you know?  (There are quite a few in Milwaukee, and if you're a metal worker or a printer, you might actually know some.)
As for what real commies think about AA, you are incorrect. Communists are supportive of attempts to end racial oppression of minorities, though we may disagree with specifics. For example, I support AA, just not it's current implementation. I defend it, however, because, as flawed as it is, it is better than nothing.
Whites have no inherent right to white skin privelege. Look at it this way. Everyone has a right to x. However, due to racism in 1970, white males got x+2, while white women and Black males got x-1. Affirmative Actions is attempted to take that +2 from us white guys and give it to women and Black men. Because we are used to getting x+2, we say "Hey, that's mine! That's not fair," but we never should have recieved nor did we earn that +2. Now, AA has managed to help one group of people, white women. Now the formula looks like white men: x+1, white women; x, and Black men; x-1.
I could probably explain this better, but I actually have some work to do today, so I can't spend all day at Poly.
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Sprayber
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Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Guynemer
Exactly. White Americans are born with every opportunity in the world; outside of royalty, no other people have ever been so privledged. If you are unhappy with your station in life, it is not the fault of blacks, or the civil rights movement, or affirmative action. The fault is your own.
Do you honestly believe that more blacks get hired/promoted "because of" affirmative action than blacks who don't get hired at all/left behind because they are black? Forget the lemonade, Saddam. Try to find a clue instead. |
As long as blacks are lead to believe that their condition is helpless and is depended upon "programs" then they will be stuck in the victim meantality. To be fair most african americans probably don't feel this way. But this is the mentality that the black "leaders" need to push. What use would an Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson whos defining features are that they are black. Ethnic background will always be apart of who anyone is. Racism is a human condition. Those that say that white people invented racism are talking out their ass. Black people are just as capable of it as anyone.
Getting back to the topic. Build a museum. Then we will see what it is used for. If it is used to educate people about the evils of slavery, every last bit of it, then it would have been worth the effort. But if it is used as a political tool, what Cal is afraid of, then hopefully there will be people around to present another side. That's the beauty of America. There is always someone willing to express a counter view. But if someone does present an alternative view, don't automaticall assume they are racists or ignorant. If they are, then they will present ample opportunity to prove it themselves. But this holier than thou attitude that all differring opinions are somehow bad and racists only goes to show that some are not willing to give the other side an opportunity to exist. Which is just as bad.
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Sprayber
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Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:17
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Aside from me, how many true communists do you know? (There are quite a few in Milwaukee, and if you're a metal worker or a printer, you might actually know some.)
As for what real commies think about AA, you are incorrect. Communists are supportive of attempts to end racial oppression of minorities, though we may disagree with specifics. For example, I support AA, just not it's current implementation. I defend it, however, because, as flawed as it is, it is better than nothing.
Whites have no inherent right to white skin privelege. Look at it this way. Everyone has a right to x. However, due to racism in 1970, white males got x+2, while white women and Black males got x-1. Affirmative Actions is attempted to take that +2 from us white guys and give it to women and Black men. Because we are used to getting x+2, we say "Hey, that's mine! That's not fair," but we never should have recieved nor did we earn that +2. Now, AA has managed to help one group of people, white women. Now the formula looks like white men: x+1, white women; x, and Black men; x-1.
I could probably explain this better, but I actually have some work to do today, so I can't spend all day at Poly. |
When does it end?
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:17
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Lots of interesting stuff, but just a few comments.
Reb, the USA's economy wasn't as heavily cotton driven as your making oiut, this is the same mistake the Southern traitors made when they tried to sekdaddle and were spanked for their troubles.
America's economy in the early 19th century was centered on Northern manufactures, Yankee whaling, Yankee merchant marine based out of New England, as well as the cotton trade, but cotton made up about 30% of US GNP, even though, as you say, it was 75% of USA exports, so Slavery isn't the driving factor in the USA's economy, as the South found out when they tried to lit out of their country.
In actual fact, slavery was nearly finished in the USA by 1800, it was the invention of the cotton gin that made the cotton trade profitable, and caused the resumption of the vile trade of humans to be resumed.
As for who started the war of Southern traitors, those who turned their backs on our nation and our flag called themselves Butternuts and Johhny Rebs, and they paid a price for thier betrayal of the country of their birth.
The "States rights" issue at the birth of the USA was a vile attempt to leave a back-door for slavery should the country ever turn against Slavery (as Franklin wanted), and we can all be thankful that this was stopped, as horible cost to both sides in that conflict.
Early America looked to the South for it's Army and it's politicians, what a horrible betrayal they attempted.
As for other stuff, the gass-pumper is being silly, but in his idocy, he does bring up a valid point about college and credits and such.
Everyone should be held to the same standard, if you lower it, your hurting the people your lowering it for, for you are telling them that they are inferior, and need help, which is bull.
The statement that being white gives you first class status by someone (to lazy to find out who) is to vile to contemplate, and is an insult beyound measure to asians, blacks, all the people of this earth. We are all the same.
I was born white, and never recieved any special treatment, all I have I earned, nobody helped me or made it easy, nobody (not even my family, which was at borderline middle class, just above poverty, really) paid for my college, or got me work, or anything else. Those kind of statements feed the exact opposite of what is needed, that kind of statement tries to make a white man feel guilty for being born, pure bull.
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22-01-2002 10:51
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