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Caligastia
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Recently a proposal to build a national slavery museum has been resurrected. http://www.starbanner.com/articles/news/403.shtml
Do you think this is a bad idea?
I am against this museum for the following reasons:
"Constant reminders of slavery suggest to Blacks that if they are more likely than Whites to be poor, in jail, on welfare, on drugs, have illegitimate children, or to drop out of school, it is not really their fault. It is, instead, the legacy of slavery and of the continuing racism that slavery is said to have burned into the minds of Whites.
The message for Whites is even more blunt: Whites are guilty of terrible crimes, from which all Blacks suffer to this day. The implication is that Whites should therefore agree to the demands of Blacks, whether for racial preferences, reparations for slavery, or calls for "sensitivity."
All this is extremely damaging. It helps no Black person to tell him that White wickedness, past and present -- and not his own abilities --determines whether he will succeed. Likewise, Whites are increasingly annoyed at being blamed for things they did not do.
At the same time, because one of the purposes of a slavery museum is to make Whites feel guilty, it would be likely to ignore or downplay certain facts: Slavery has been widespread in virtually every period of history, and was hardly unique to
America. Slavery was widely practiced in Africa long before the trans-Atlantic slave trade, and virtually every Black slave who came to North America was first enslaved by other Blacks and then sold to Whites. Slavery in Africa was abolished by Whites -- not by Blacks -- and in Sudan and Mauritania it continues to this day.
In the United States, the 1830 census found that more than 3,000 free Blacks owned slaves, and there were Black owners in every state in which slavery was legal. In 1830, free Blacks owned more than 10,000 slaves in just the four states of Louisiana, Maryland, Virginia and South Carolina:
Andrew Durnford of Louisiana owned more than 100 slaves. Madame Ciprien Ricard, also of Louisiana, owned 168 black slaves. Black masters bought and sold their property and offered rewards for runaways, just as White masters did.
At the same time, only a small minority of Whites were slave-holders. In the states of the Confederacy, only one in five White households owned slaves. Needless to say, the millions of Whites who are today descended from post-emancipation European immigrants had no ancestral involvement in slavery at all. Finally, slavery was ended by the efforts of Whites, not Blacks, and came at the end of a war that cost the lives of 600,000 White soldiers.
For all these reasons, slavery is hardly the simple tale of bad Whites and good Blacks many make it out to be. Any museum that slants the past, and that pits one race against another through excuse-making and guilt-mongering, will harm our society rather than help it."
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:17
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It also helps white revisionists avoid the less-than-pleasant realities of the past.
I have several (actually, quite a few, the more collateral you go) ancestors by marriage who owned slaves, and some indications of direct ancestors who may have, though no hard records have survived within our family.
But hell, my family was among the first settlers of Virginia and Kentucky, and were all free men with reasonable prosperity, so it's almost beyond doubt that some of them had at least house slaves.
Do I feel guilty for that or that I owe anybody anything for it? Hell no! Do I have a problem with a museum that focuses on an area of American history (and anthropology) that we know relatively little about? Not only hell no, but I'd like to go see it.
The article you're quoting from Cal, is already presupposing an agenda on the part of the museum, and you're suggesting we bury history, rather than address it accurately.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:17
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You mean a slavery museum doesn't exist already? How odd.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia
Any museum that slants the past, and that pits one race against another through excuse-making and guilt-mongering, will harm our society rather than help it." |
That seems to be stating the obvious, but it doesn't mean that a slavery museum would automatically be slanted. Is there some reason why this quote was used? Are there any indications that the proposed museum would be slanted. Where did this quote originate?
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Caligastia
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Why does it have to be dedicated to slavery? Whats wrong with an american museum of history where slavery is addressed appropriately?
quote:
no single institution did more to shape the US than slavery |
The constitution? The bill of rights?
quote:
The article you're quoting from Cal, is already presupposing an agenda on the part of the museum, and you're suggesting we bury history, rather than address it accurately. |
I dont mind if it is addressed accurately, but is it really worthy of having a whole museum dedicated to it? Also, if its going to be an objective museum of slavery in the US then part of it should explain how the slaves were taken from africa. Do you think this museum would have any mention of the fact that the slaves that were brought over were already enslaved by black people? Personally I doubt it.
quote:
Are there any indications that the proposed museum would be slanted. Where did this quote originate? |
This museum would be slanted if it didnt include the story of the black slave owners in africa, and I honestly dont think that would be mentioned.
This is where I got the quote from:
http://www.bet.com/articles/0,,p97gb1420-2077,00.html
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by BeBro
Well, what is your point here? Others can ask: Whats wrong with an american museum of slavery where slavery is addressed appropriately?
Do you think facts about slavery only have a place in a general history museum? Why are there museums for old automobiles then? Shouldnīt all these old cars be in a museum of history?
I agree with you that a museum of slavery should cover the different aspects of the whole topic objectively. But how can you know that this would not be the case before youīve seen the result? |
Fine, have a slavery museum, but as you say it should cover the different aspects of the whole topic objectively. The reason I have my doubts that this would happen is for the reason I stated above. Do you really think they would mention the black slavers in africa and their culpability?
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
And i stand by what I said, Caligastia: no institution, not even the Constitution, has had more effect on US history. It's worth remembering that the Constitution did nothing about slavery, but slavery provoked a Constitutional crisis and a civil war. |
The US government is an institution, do you really think it had less influence on the US than slavery? Im no historical scholar, but I doubt it. I would be interested to see what Chris 62 has to say about this.
As far as I know it was trade that sparked the civil war. Slavery was just used as a moral excuse for the north to attack.
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Rufus T. Firefly
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is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia
The US government is an institution, do you really think it had less influence on the US than slavery? Im no historical scholar, but I doubt it. I would be interested to see what Chris 62 has to say about this.
As far as I know it was trade that sparked the civil war. Slavery was just used as a moral excuse for the north to attack. |
Yes, I suppose all of the actions of the government, taken as a whole over the last 225 years, has had more of an impact. I stand corrected. 
But as for slavery palying no role in the Civil War -- where are you getting that?! It was not the sole cause, to be sure, but the Missouri Compromise was not about trade; the Dred Scott decision was not about trade; nobody was bleeding in Bleeding Kansas over trade. Such misconceptions are, perhaps, exactly why we need a slavery museum.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by BeBro Mhm, I donīt know that. It all depends on how the museum is finally realized. |
From my experience of the political atmosphere in the US I would be VERY suprised if there was any mention of the black slavers.
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:17
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Well, since Cal wants to drag me into another argument, I guess i can add a few comments.
quote:
Some advocates of slavery reparations are suspicious of a proposal that comes from the conservative side of the aisle. The debate about reparations, which has become more visible in recent months, won't necessarily boost the bill's chances. |
This line shows me this is a political football, the chances of it being a fair and accurate museum is almost nil
quote:
''This might tend to defuse the urgency of the reparations movement,'' said Kalonji Olusegun, treasurer the National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America. ''Some folks might think a museum would satisfy the historical tragedy of enslavement and discrimination.'' |
This movement only exsists among blacks and far left whites, basically, they are reinforceing the feeling of blacks today that they are "owed" something because of past events.
Bullsh1t.
quote:
Olusegun is among blacks that want a congressional commission to study the effects of slavery on present-day blacks before specifics of how to make amends are decided. A bill to create the commission has received little consideration after being introduced every session for 12 years. |
Not only can't he prove his claim, he wants us to pay to prove it.
quote:
For decades, blacks have been divided about the chances that anything would ever happen, and if it did, what that should be. Some say an apology might be enough; many blacks disagree. Some say the government should pay trillions of dollars; others wonder if a museum would be more appropriate and realistic |
From the few I have spoken too, many by into the "we are owed" camp, but only want money for urban development and housing improvement, not museums.
Trying to convince them that something that happened to thier great-great grandfathers doesn't entitle them to anything is an excercise in futility. They are brought up in a culture that feeds this, it's the number one plank of most "activists" like Sharpton and Jackson, and so, they also believe.
My opinion is that yes, there was slavery, yes, it was wrong, no, your not owned a damn thing for it, unless you can produce a single living victim of it, OR one who practised it.
The chances it will show how slaves were captured in Africa (by other blacks) or that there were black slave owners is almost nil, more than likely it will try to support the ludicrous claim that slaves built the USA.
As for slavery shaping America, only insofar as it concerned slave owners in the south, and nation politics on state's admitions.
Most people didn't think overmuch about it.
One thing Sloww, I hate to say it, but Firefly is right, State's rights was a smoke screen, they left the union because an abolishonist president (Lincoln) was elected, and they knew that public sentiment in the majority of the USA (ie the north) was running heavily in favor of ending slavery throughout the USA.
It's a shame people didn't listen to Ben Franklin in 1787, he formed an abolishonist group, but couldn't draw the support needed to have slaery ended by the US Constitution.
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21-01-2002 10:23
I'm part Irish, I would go see it. I really dont care what kind of musuem anyone has. America has thousands of museums dedicated to everthing from cars to fetish. If they want a museum, let them build it. But if one cent of it comes from federal dollars, they should at least try to be fair.
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