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Random Passerby
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I agree. The uneducated person might foolishly say that you volunteered that $50 entirely on your own and deserve to bear the consequences of that decision, but what they fail to realize is that Firaxis has ALIEN MIND CONTROL SATELLITES forcing people to buy CivIII against their will! That's what really makes the lack of PR so unethical.
Not that I'm trying to be a Firaxis apologist, I just disagree with people going off on consumer-power trips. It's bad business practice to make yourselves this inacessible (particularly after a reception like CivIII has had), but I fail to see how it's immoral.
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Libertarian
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Morality is a private matter, between a man and his God or conscience. We are talking here about ethics.
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Libertarian
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Does this mean I can take this tin foil and clothes hanger off my head?
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woody
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First of all, I enjoy Civ3 a lot. I also understand why Firaxis doesn't post here: there are far too many whiners and complainers. I think we'd all be better off if the forum moderators would ban the trolls and whiners (like Yin and Lib). If they were banned, maybe we'd read more from Firaxis. At the very least, we wouldn't have to read their drivel anymore.
That said, I'm not all that happy with the way Firaxis is keeping us informed (or not informed, to be more accurate). I understand them not wasting effort here, but their home page should have updates on future patches and a possible time-frame. There should be a list of bugs that Firaxis has acknowledged.
Firaxis needs to provide some information. As it stands now, I certainly won't pre-order another Firaxis game. From now on, I'll wait a few months until a mostly bug-free version is available.
The current version is okay for now, but I won't be happy if it's the final version. I'd like at least some confirmation that there will be another patch in the next 6 weeks or so. If they go the expansion pack route instead, they've just lost any hope of future sales to me.
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Libertarian
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Oh, stop whining.
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FrantzX
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I'm just wondering, how many gaming companies keep a constant dialogue with the fanbase?
Last edited by FrantzX on 23-01-2002 at 02:20
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Encomium
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quote:
Originally posted by Feephi
My post really wasn't about "showing" them anything. I just wanted Jeff to consider if he made an ethically sound decision to spend "poly time" (possibly with pizza and beer using the $50 I purchased Civ III with) while I have a Civ III game that in both its original and patched form is buggy, unbalanced, and unplayable. |
Indeed. And why do we the consumers have to spend hours tinkering with the Editor to make the game more playable?? Wasn't it ever playtested??
BTW, not only is their no Cheat Mode, we can't make Scenarios. Perhaps Firaxis is figuring on selling more Scenario CD's to suck up more of our cash. If so, this game won't have a fraction of the life of good old Civ II.
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Libertarian
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quote:
Don't worry, they sure up to something. Otherwise, why should they need 20 beta testers? Play SimGolf? |
Could be. They already have a bazillion beta testers for Civ3.
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woody
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quote:
Originally posted by Master2000
Firaxis isn't the only developer who can't figure out how to keep a dialoge with their customers. I wish they could look at the NewerWinter Nights forums, they surely rocks.
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I don't really care if they have a dialogue. A one-way information feed from them is enough. A simple web-page update, with what they are working on in terms of patches, is enough. I don't expect them to answer questions, as it just encourages the whiners like Lib and Yin.
quote:
Don't forget that some Firaxians comes from MicroProse and that was the worst company all times when it comes to customer care.
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And look where it got Microprose.
quote:
Don't worry, they sure up to something. Otherwise, why should they need 20 beta testers? Play SimGolf?
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Yes, the beta testers is not a good sign. God knows they need good testers, as was evident from things like the broken air superiority in the first release. However, beta testers are usually used before a product is released, not after. I smell an expan$ion pack.
If they expect me to pay for bug-fixes, they'll never get a future dime from me for any game. However, I don't expect they're that greedy. I think we'll eventually get a free patch, but it doesn't look like they're in any hurry to do it. My guess is sometime in March or April.
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woody
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quote:
Originally posted by OneInTen
It's unlikely that Firaxis will do this, for the same reason most companies don't do this - making public a list of things that are wrong with your product isn't sound marketting.
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I agree with you for the most part. However, making a bug-list available (perhaps on a site different from their main web-page), really shouldn't hurt sales at all.
Most people who buy commercial games don't go looking for bug lists on the Internet, first. People like us that do go looking for such lists, are probably very well aware of forums like this and Usenet, where complaints are prevalent. They're already seeing the bugs, but not seeing any feedback from Firaxis.
If anything, I think information from Firaxis would help sales, not hurt. At least the few people who see such information would know they're still supporting the game, and haven't abandoned it.
If I was thinking of buying Civ3 at this time, I'd wait to see if they come out with an expan$ion pack so I don't have to pay for the game twice. All that does is drop their current revenues, and there's no guarantee that buyers will decide to buy the game later.
In fact, from now on, I think I'll take my own advice. If a game is good, it will be just as good 6 months after it's released (and probably cheaper and much less buggy).
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Libertarian
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quote:
I don't expect them to answer questions, as it just encourages the whiners like Lib and Yin. |
It might be fair to refer to me as a "whiner" (although malcontent would be more precise) but Yin is a connoisseur, an expert on the Civ series who did precisely what the fanboys are doing now — he offered constructive, imaginative, and useful suggestions on how to make Civ a better game.
Of course, he offered his advice as the head of a group formed specifically for the purpose of making suggestions. Before the game was ever published. As is plainly obvious, Firaxis ignored most of them. That's what's so pathetic about the fanboys now. They keep making these futile suggestions after it's already too late.
Feh.
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Libertarian
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A man who wins at roulette is merely lucky. Nothing more.
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xpfusion
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Norway
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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I think people have to realize that civ3 is an extremely complex game. Much more complex than any other game so far. If we want to play games like civ3, games that truly bring the gaming experience to another level, then bugs is just something we have to live with. To expect such a game as civ3 to be bug-free, is completely unrealistic. Of course, Firaxis could have withheld the game and tested and improved it to get rid of the bugs, but then we would probably have to wait another year for the release. However, Firaxis made the choice to release the game early. This way they get valuable feedback from their customers, and hopefully, they will continue to improve the game and we'll see a bug-free game eventually. Until then, just enjoy your civ3. After all, no other game can even compare to it.
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Quokka
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Los Angeles
Dec 2001
time: 21:17
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Mum always told me "If you don't have anything to say, shut up".
Maybe they are just waiting until they have something of consequence to say instead of just filling the room (and boards) with hot air. I would hope they are working in silent diligence and will just tell us when they have something finished. I have seen responses to some questions about the game, the ones that they avoid are the ones about what is not in the game. There is a lot more not in it than there is in it so most questions are ignored.
How do you know exactly what a house will look like until its actually built? You have an idea but the reality is only final upon completion of construction.
The people here at my work that talk about whats going on and what they hope for in the future and how great everything is all work in Advertising, but they don't actually create anything while they are doing all that. We in the Programming and Product Development do that but we don't talk about it all day we just do it. It took one early release and ensuing hassle of our product to convince those in Distribution and Marketing to wait until we had it finished and not make bold promises. The new Distribution and Marketing people are much more attentive now and are keeping quiet until we tell them whats up.
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Libertarian
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quote:
How do you know exactly what a house will look like until its actually built?. |
[...blank stare...]
You mean to tell me that you would allow a contractor to do whatever he pleased with the house you bought, never even so much as giving you an update now and then? And you would console yourself that it will likely be what you want?
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Quokka
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Los Angeles
Dec 2001
time: 21:17
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They have given some updates. The patch is one. They are answering some questions and yes you have to trust the contractor and architect. Its their design you just like it. Modifications are constant in construction of anything be it a house or program. Do you want the contractor calling you every time they change something? 'Excuse me Mr Lib. we have to move a nail 3 inches higher to avoid the new wiring you ordered, can I get your permission?' Not practical. If you have ever designed and built anything, massive input from the buyer is the worst possibility, often what they want is not doable within the framework you have. They are there for general ideas not technical tweaks. The process is a series of rounds.
Round1: Initial Idea
Round2: Ver1
Round3: Response to Ver1
Round4: Ver2 etc, etc.
This were we are up to with Civ3. All the new ideas cannot be instantly incorporated into the game no matter what some people think. Basically people are being impatient. Rome was not built in a day.
When was the last time you bought a game that was perfect and required no further patches? Never I bet. Sure there are bugs in Civ3 I don't deny it, but the grander the vision the more difficult the realisation. If we just shut up and let them get on with it then results would come faster. It will become apparent shortly wether they are going to offer more support or not, if not then the decision becomes play with what you have or forget about it as more whinging is not going ot accomplish anything. Innocent until proven Guilty.
To carry the house/construction analogy further, what we got was a 5 Bed/2 Bath/ 2 Car Garage when what everyone wanted was the Playboy Mansion.
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Libertarian
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Good lord. Nobody is asking them where they're putting the nails. We don't even know if they're EVEN CONSIDERING adding the much needed kitchen that they left out of the original.
Criminey.
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22-01-2002 23:42
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