23-01-2002 18:27									#91
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quote: Originally posted by El Awrence I beseech thee to explain this view.

Can you provide me with greater political figures in the 20th century than Churchill?

I can only think of 2-3 more person of his political might.

	23-01-2002 18:53									#92
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Stalin,
Mao,
Charles De Gaulle (for french only ...)
Me.

(quoted by ascending order of importance)

	23-01-2002 19:00									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen Can you provide me with greater political figures in the 20th century than Churchill? I can only think of 2-3 more person of his political might.

Well, Bismarck was not even in the XX century, I'd still like an explanation about how Churchill was better than Bismarck.

	23-01-2002 19:18									#94
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here in germany: the guys claiming german race is superior - those are exactly the proove why it can`t be true. just take a look at them

i suppose, this is true for other countries also
*pearing at USA*

but i don`t no what to do with an american claiming german race superior?

	23-01-2002 19:25									#95
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quote: Jewish is a religeon, not a nationality.

Just for the record.... it is Both a religion and a race.
Do some research.

	23-01-2002 19:27									#96
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quote: Originally posted by OldWarrior_42 Just for the record.... it is Both a religion and a race. Do some research.

Semitic is the race. Israelite is the nation. Jewish is the religion.

	23-01-2002 19:41									#97
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You knew what I ment though... :-P~~~~~~~~~~~ Didn't you.

	23-01-2002 19:46									#98
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior Stalin, Mao, Charles De Gaulle (for french only ...) Me. (quoted by ascending order of importance)

I will agree on Stalin, though Churchill might have been more insightful than him. Besides Stalin ruled by fear and not many things are well known about him so I can't be sure whether he was accually a better politician.

But the rest you mentioned I wouldn't include them in the top political figures of the 20th century.

I could add Veniamin Rousevelt and perhaps Wilson on the list...

But still none of them is German

quote: Originally posted by El Awrence Well, Bismarck was not even in the XX century, I'd still like an explanation about how Churchill was better than Bismarck.

I said probably. Probably means he might he might not.
Several historians consider Churchill one of the greatest politicians of 20th century.

Well, I guess you can't accually compare political figures from different ages successfully.

quote: Originally posted by El Awrence Semitic is the race. Israelite is the nation. Jewish is the religion.

Accually in the ancient times under the rule of David I think there were two states, Israel and Juday (not sure for the spelling). The first were called Israelis and the second Jewish. So Jewish are nationality but religion too.
I would better call them Hebrews though...

	23-01-2002 19:56									#99
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quote: Originally posted by OldWarrior_42 You knew what I ment though... :-P~~~~~~~~~~~ Didn't you.

No, honest, I didn!

	23-01-2002 19:57									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen I would better call them Hebrews though...

To be honest, I agree.

	23-01-2002 19:57									#101
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quote: Originally posted by El Awrence Semitic is the race. Israelite is the nation. Jewish is the religion.

Not according to the Jews and the Judaism.

	23-01-2002 20:01									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Not according to the Jews and the Judaism.

Explain.

	23-01-2002 20:05									#103
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quote: Originally posted by El Awrence Explain.

1) "Race" is a meaningless concept - it exists only as a social construct. Yes, Jews have certain genetic similarities to other middle eastern peoples, and they also have differences. It's a completely subjective category.

2) It's impossible to have Judaism as your religion but not be a member of the Jewish people. And I'm not sure whether you're using "Israelite" to refer to the State of Israel or to the Jewish people.

	23-01-2002 20:06									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen I will agree on Stalin

Of course most of the guy I quoted was for fun (except me )
And yes, imprtant guy aren't all (sadly) good guys.

	23-01-2002 20:12									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Natan 1) "Race" is a meaningless concept - it exists only as a social construct.

Not always true, especially when you have to deal with major races like White (caucasian), Black (negroid) or Yellow (sinitic) or even regarding the major white races like the Semitic, Scadinavia, Baltic etc.

Of cource we all are humans and equal to each other but in anthropologic terms races differs.

	23-01-2002 20:23									#106
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It's difficult to class those race. Because geneticals differences are nearly unobservable. And we are nearly all 'bastard' of two or three of those races.

	23-01-2002 20:25									#107
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Keygen, he is simply imply that all jews can trace there existance back to holy land.


Which is true, since Judiasm doesnt convert and is passed down through generations. If you are a muslim, and want to become a jew, you can't do it.

You have to prove semetic origin (which is difficult)

	23-01-2002 20:29									#108
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Which is true, since Judiasm doesnt convert and is passed down through generations. If you are a muslim, and want to become a jew, you can't do it.

Wrong.
If you accept Judaism as your religion you will be considered Jew for all purposes.

	23-01-2002 20:56									#109
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Just thought Id post before deletion.

Being of German (or Ferman ) descent I like being called superior but I certainly dont believe it.Besides Im an American and proud of it!
I think the only thing the Germans truly excelled at throughout history is the art of war.
Yeah they lost WW1 @ 2 but lets face it -They were fighting the entire world(almost) which brings me to their main failing throughout history-Bad political decision making.
Who Brought down the greatest Civ of all time -Rome-well-western Roman empire anyway?
Even today I would not want to pit an American Abrams Division against a Leopard Div. I think the German Div. would chew them up and spit them out.
Why You ask? Well the Germans are in the same position that they were in 1934.A limited sized army stocked full of an experianced cadre of lifelong servicemen.God I hope that they never decide to flesh out their army cause they would be every bit as awsome as they were in 1939 - 1943.Yikes.

Oh and concerning Bismark -If he were truly a great politition he would have secured an alliance with England.

And BTW Hitler was right about very few things IMHO he was a D***HEAD.

	23-01-2002 21:01									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen Not always true, especially when you have to deal with major races like White (caucasian), Black (negroid) or Yellow (sinitic) or even regarding the major white races like the Semitic, Scadinavia, Baltic etc. Of cource we all are humans and equal to each other but in anthropologic terms races differs.

Of course there are certain genes which are clustered in certain parts of the world, but how we turn that into a "racial" system isn't dictated by reality - for example, a person who in America would be considered black would be considered white in Brazil. These things can even change in one place over time, Jews, Italians, and even Irishmen were at one time considered separate races in America, but no more.

Eli: Right, but you have to convert before a rabbinic tribunal and jump through the ritual hoops, like circumcision and immersion in the Mikvah.

	23-01-2002 21:23									#111
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior It's difficult to class those race. Because geneticals differences are nearly unobservable. And we are nearly all 'bastard' of two or three of those races.

The basic races are easily recognizable in their majority. Just go for a trip in Chine or Nigeria and then back to France

But regarding subdivisions I will agree with you. Although there are still some differences the major merges have put differences in their greatest part out of the picture
Modern Greeks, Germans, English, Spanish and French are a great example.

quote: Originally posted by Evil_Eric_4 I think the only thing the Germans truly excelled at throughout history is the art of war. Yeah they lost WW1 @ 2 but lets face it -They were fighting the entire world(almost) which brings me to their main failing throughout history-Bad political decision making. Who Brought down the greatest Civ of all time -Rome-well-western Roman empire anyway? Even today I would not want to pit an American Abrams Division against a Leopard Div. I think the German Div. would chew them up and spit them out. Why You ask? Well the Germans are in the same position that they were in 1934.A limited sized army stocked full of an experianced cadre of lifelong servicemen.God I hope that they never decide to flesh out their army cause they would be every bit as awsome as they were in 1939 - 1943.Yikes.

On the military aspect I will agree with you.
I find no match for the German army in world war 2.
One of the greatest and most fearsome armies of all times!

However the modern German army is not trustworthy in my opinion.

quote: Originally posted by Natan Of course there are certain genes which are clustered in certain parts of the world, but how we turn that into a "racial" system isn't dictated by reality - for example, a person who in America would be considered black would be considered white in Brazil. These things can even change in one place over time, Jews, Italians, and even Irishmen were at one time considered separate races in America, but no more.

It's very unlikely a black or yellow person be considered as white unless you mean the social treatment which was not what I meant by the racial differences. For me they all got the same rights.
And yes, in the United States minorities are starting to be considered as Americans and only Americans and not Italians or Irish or Jews.
At list I think so

	23-01-2002 22:46									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Wrong. If you accept Judaism as your religion you will be considered Jew for all purposes.

Wow really? When did they start doing that? I thought in the books of Judges and Exodus it strictly prohibited integration/conversion.

	23-01-2002 22:50									#113
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Wow really? When did they start doing that? I thought in the books of Judges and Exodus it strictly prohibited integration/conversion.

Since intermarriage is portrayed not at all negatively in Exodus (Moses marries Jethro's daughter) and Ruth, and since there seem to be references to conversion in the bible, conversion must have existed in some form. The exact procedure is laid out in the Talmud.

	23-01-2002 22:53									#114
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Hmmpf...thats a damn good point



Also, since Abraham had a mistresses who was of non-semitic orgin


I guess I need to pay more attentoin to the sermons on sundays

	23-01-2002 23:02									#115
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Why are people debating with a debilitated individual who is unable to TYPE, let alone string together two coherent ideas?



You are casting pearls after swine.

	23-01-2002 23:06									#116
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Viking Why are people debating with a debilitated individual who is unable to TYPE, let alone string together two coherent ideas?

Ya ooookkkkk there loser

	23-01-2002 23:08									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen It's very unlikely a black or yellow person be considered as white unless you mean the social treatment which was not what I meant by the racial differences. For me they all got the same rights.

No, I mean that if you have a person of mixed ancestry, they'd be considered Black in America, but White in Brazil.

quote: And yes, in the United States minorities are starting to be considered as Americans and only Americans and not Italians or Irish or Jews. At list I think so

Right, but before they were considered separate "races" - I'm sure there are certain genes they share, but the change in how we view them did not occur because of scientists or anthropologists making new discoveries, it changed because society decided they were just white.

	24-01-2002 00:47									#118
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Anyone here ever heard of Sammy Davis Jr, the black member of Sinatra's "rat pack"? He converted to Judaism, but I'm pretty sure that he had no direct Jewish ancestors.

I don't understand why anyone would consider Bismark a great statesman of the 20th century. The Kaiser fired him well before 1900!

IMHO the greatest diplomat of the 29th century would have to be FDR, Harry Truman or Dwight Eisenhower. FDR assembled the Atlantic Charter and laid the groundwork for the essentials of postwar diplomacy. Truman put together the Trumand doctrine, a series of international alliances that contained the Comintern without triggering WW3. Dwight Eisenhower kept the military forces of the western alliance working together despite major personality conflicts. Woodrow Wilson should belong in this group because of his vision of co-operative diplomacy, but he was tragically undermined by his inability to gain the approval of his own legislature.

	24-01-2002 01:04									#119
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The average Ferman is NOT superior to ME!!!!!!

	24-01-2002 01:29									#120
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the chiurchill thing seems to have got ppl, here is my reasoning for saying he sucked:


He was an extreme imperialist (grew up in the late 19th C, fought in many African colonial wars), extremely conservative and right winged and many times needlessly brutal (rumours he deliberatly sent the lucitania into german waters to get the US in WW1, similar things have bin said bout pearl habour to).

Churchill beleived in keeping the British empire at ALL costs, was very anti-Indian (called Ghandi a half naked faqir), refused to consider that ther empire had run its course and was supressing its peoples.

He spent most of his time drunk, and the only purpose he served in WW2 was to give Britain a John Bullish figure to look up to.

IMO, Churchill represented EVERYthing that was bad about the British empire from the start of the New Imperialism till 1945.