18-12-2002 10:21									#211
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I suspect he was talking about exploits, not true cheats. A cheat would using a code or an editor, an exploit would be using the empty frigate refit. As long as all are using the same rules, there is no problem. I would think that players that try to get an advatange by using an exploit would find no one willing to play them soon as is the case in some games on some boards. By now most at Moo2 sites are familar with each other, I would expect.

Are you talking about refitting an empty frigate for the money cheat or as a runner in a missile battle?

If you are talking about doing it for money it is a cheat because it gives you production toward taxes and then let's you reuse the production basically doubling your production. It has been considered a cheat since the players on Kali identified it. It also drastically slows play because players must adjust every planet every turn.

If you are talking about a frigate runner that is just a combat technique for early mid game.

	18-12-2002 13:12									#212
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The money thing. Using frigates as runner is part of the game.

	18-12-2002 13:58									#213
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I am sorry if I have insulted anyone. I had in mind the money cheat, and the other one for changing a product after buying ... I learned about these recently from a player who plays a lot of MP games and the logical conclusion was that they are well known in MP communities (such things cannot stay hidden for long). It is good to know that you find out that you are trying to forbid the usage of these flaws on Kali , because they only ruin the good game.
If you say you are honorable, I believe that you indeed are :-) But there is always a doubt that there are others that are not so honorable .... I believe that if any flaws or exploits are detected in a game, then it should be fixed by the game developer in a patch. No other way. You can say that I am too suspicious, but life have taught me to be so.

I actually play MP at hotseat (good that there can not be cheating this way, and bad that there can not be any surprise in the game) or at LAN because I have access to I-net only at work :-(( I dont want complain about the conditions here again ... It would be very interesting for me to play with any of you but I simply don't have the opportunity :-(( I am playing usually with friends and we dont go for powerplay (the powerplay is for kids - I like to say that), we are just playing for fun and experimenting with different races - for example palying MP with the worst race possible - like the one that I posted in the Real Challenge thread ... Or powerful ground fighting races, or Max Spying races, or only original (no custom) races ....

	23-03-2003 03:12									#214
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 The Dem give +50 to sci and prod,

I think Dem give +50 to sci and tax, and uni gives +50 to prod and food

	23-03-2003 04:21									#215
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by mufa I think Dem give +50 to sci and tax, and uni gives +50 to prod and food

True, I misspoke.

	25-03-2003 18:43									#216
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Here's my recommendation for using missiles in a task force:

"Archer" ship:
NO COMPUTER
best shields
Battle Pods
Shield Capacitor
Multi-Phased Shields (later)
Hard Shields (later)
Fast Missile Racks (later)
MIRV missiles of best type, TWO rounds each launcher
Modify with Fast, ECCM, and Heavy when feasible
NO other weapons, JUST missiles
NOTE: you might want to have a mix of both Fast and
non-Fast, or both best and lesser types

"Lancer" ship:
Your choice, but basically an energy-weapons ship, along with bombs, etc. You might think of this as the "everything else" platform. These ships should be VERY heavily armored. Heavy anti-missile and anti-fighter defenses are a good idea also.

Tactics:
The basic premise is to fire all missiles ASAP and then Retreat them, leaving the Lancer-class ships to absorb return fire and mop up after the missiles hit home.

It's best of course if Fast Missile Racks are installed, otherwise it takes an extra round to empty your magazines. The Archers' shields should absorb energy-weapons fire until they can make their exit; they won't be around long enough to be threatened by missiles. Before I achieve FMR, I usually fire the first volley and then turn to run, and fire the final volley just before retreating.

Either fire ALL missiles at the same target, or if different targets then move a bit and stagger launches so that missiles don't all travel together. This is critical because the AI's favorite anti-missile trick is to explode its ships and blast all nearby missiles. If you've used a mix of fast and slower missiles, that can help.

Once the Archers have retreated, the Lancers will have to bear the brunt of whatever missiles and fighters were initially targetting the Archers, so make those the first priority, then follow the missiles in and finish the job!

If you design your missile ships as I've suggested, they should adopt the fire-and-retreat strategy even in Auto mode (I've seen it happen more than once).

	25-03-2003 22:41									#217
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Not sure why I would be making missile ships if I already have Multi Phased and Hard Shields.
I never use bombs on any ships.
If fact if I get fast racks, by that time I has stopped making missile ships. I may refit existing ones with the racks.
The shelf life of missile ships is not all that long. They are very good when they are good and very bad after that.

	26-03-2003 04:17									#218
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Macraig: You're wasting space on your missile boats with the Multi Phased and Hard Sheilds. Your missile boats shouldn't stick around long enough to take fire. The space you're spending on extra protection is much better used for extra firepower.

vmxa1: Fast racks are marginally usefull if you beeline for them. They're a lower priority than missile tech, but I think it's a worthwhile 900 rp if you're planning on going with missile boats for any length of time.

If you've taken warlord as a pick, "Missile Pod" DDs make excelent boosters to system defences.

Best computer (for the initiative boost), Battle Pods, Fast Racks, and the rest missiles (exact configuration of missiles dependant on tech levels).

	26-03-2003 10:32									#219
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quote: Originally posted by Thoth vmxa1: Fast racks are marginally usefull if you beeline for them. They're a lower priority than missile tech, but I think it's a worthwhile 900 rp if you're planning on going with missile boats for any length of time.

I do not disagree with that statement. I just do no have any strategies that call for fast racks.
I will either take down the whole universe with just DD and cruiser with nukes or play a longer game and go to beams fairly soon.