06-11-2002 16:43									#151
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by xoham This thread was a big help. I use MIRV nuclear missles as soon as I get them to take down space monsters. Speaking of space monsters, I had a game where the giant space amoeba came right for my home planet of Mentar, decimated the defenses then ATE THE PLANET. It was a cool animation that I have not seen in the many many years I've been playing the game. Something about my new playstyle seems to invite space monster attacks.

Hehe that also happened to me once, around 1-2 years ago.

Toxic planet, brrrr.

	06-11-2002 16:48									#152
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

About beating monsters, the best way is to build 7 Frigates with Battle Pods and 2x2 Mirv fast nuclear missiles and the remaining with 1x2 fast nuclear missile.

You could also use 1 Battleship full of Mirv fast missiles x2, but it will be really tough to beat a dragon that way (not impossible, just really tough) and absolutely impossible to beat an amoeba. The amoebas plasma web will destroy your Battleship before you can say Antares.


WARNING: This tactic is NOT valid for the Guardion!

	06-11-2002 23:11									#153
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

vxma,

Yeah there was insufficient fleet to defend that time. It was pretty darn early in the game and I had not built my mirv ships yet.

Still having a lot of trouble beating impossible. Sometimes, really bad random events happen. Like somebody discovers the ancient ship remains and get a good shield and beam. That somebody is never me.

But I keep trying.

	06-11-2002 23:30									#154
	Get a bigger avatar today!

sorry repeat post.

Last edited by xoham on 07-11-2002 at 06:23

	06-11-2002 23:48									#155
	Remove this text

I often turn off the events as they are so predictable. You will never get the ancient ship. Like I said, that is why they call it impossible. Once you get the hang of it you will be fine. Until you stay away for ahile and then forget how you did it.

	06-11-2002 23:50									#156
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whats the problems with the monsters?
just build 2 or 3 battleships with missiles and blow them away.

	07-11-2002 00:05									#157
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That works when you are in position to make 3 BB, before that you have todo something else. Actually, I rarely put missiles in BB. Cruisers and below normally.

	07-11-2002 00:11									#158
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

i hate small ships like cuisers and so on, because later in the game you can refit your BB many times, but to rerfit a small ship does not make very much sense, because it has not enough space to for special systems or good weapons.

	07-11-2002 05:00									#159
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I do not build small ships either as a norm, but it is forced on me at times. I will build a cruiser or two as a tele, if it menas grabbing a system early. I tend to build all BB and a few titans and 1 DS. Sometimes I can not build titans or DS as I do not have the tech as a non creative race. It depends on if I can steal it or beat it out of them.

	07-11-2002 06:28									#160
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

In answer to bazi's question about "what's the big deal with monsters":

Sometimes I get hemmed in by monster planets in the very early game. Thus, knowing how to use improved nuclear missles to get a monster planet early, is a big help. Going after them with battleships is too costly in the early game. Especially if I only have one or two systems at the time.

	07-11-2002 18:37									#161
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

ok this is way to handle it, but i expand to other systems and wait until i got my bbs, because i dont want to have ships which are not worth to be refitted later in the game. The question is, what way is the more effective?
Hard to find out.

	07-11-2002 23:59									#162
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well there two view. One is the command point view, where you look at the amount you get for the command points. A whole study has been done on it. The others is the preferential. Within this view, you can fit all strategies. I go with expediency. That is I will wait for battleships if I can and if I am under thread and can not make a BB in a reasonable amount of time, I make something else. That normally would be a cruiser, but I may have to go with frigates in a pinch. All of these ships can become very powerful late in the game. Different hulls have different command point values and as such can have an impact. Others factors can come into play, such as am I a tele? Do I have a super system close guarded by some monster and what will it take to kill that monster?

	08-11-2002 01:19									#163
	Inflate your Upload Space

i think if build bbs you get under threat, because the other races are afraid of them. and if you get you will be a able to blow them away with the bbs. I allways úse diplomacy to decide on my own when a war starts and build bbs to make repulsive races afraid.
If im near to a super star system i expand first to other star systems and wait for my bbs(because of the refitting and fearing other races with my fleet) to blow the monsters away.

	08-11-2002 02:39									#164
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

That sounds nice, but is not always practical, that is my point. Depending on any nmber of factors, at say turn 80 or 90, you may not be able to build a BB (that is the usn designation for a battleship) for maybe 50 turns. If my neighbor shows up at turn 110, where the heck am I? If the AI does show up it will likely be with more than 1 ship and I will have only a star base (prewarp) and no other planetary defenses.
So if we are talking about a game at less than impossible forget every thing I have said. If it is at impossible, do me a favor and post a save for the first day and one for say turn 100 and one for 200. If you are willing to slap a bit of a log, that would be great. Then I could see how i is done. Thanks

Last edited by vmxa1 on 13-11-2002 at 12:35

	08-11-2002 20:16									#165
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

i dont look so much at the number of turns, so i dont know when i get my first bb. but if another race shows up just offer a research treaty as often as necessary and they will not attack you. at least for while.
when i play next time i will save after 100 and 200 rounds and attach the saves here.

	08-11-2002 23:15									#166
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Thanks.

	13-11-2002 10:49									#167
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

So what's the verdict?

	13-11-2002 12:41									#168
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You tell me. What is you perspective? In a prewarp game at impossible, I can not bank on waiting to get a battleship, can you? I have seen the AI show up with 4-6 ships by the time I can get a single cruiser up with races like the Klacs next door. If they have a whack job for a leader you may be starting a new game real quick. If I am non creative, I will not have any missile bases, maybe no fighter garrisons and not much for a computer. Some times, I can win that battle with a cruiser and a frigate with missiles and my star base, sometimes not.

	13-11-2002 17:57									#169
	Remove this text

I usually must have a BB around turn 100. Make that before turn 100. In medium maps in multiplayer everybody usually launches a fierce attack by that turn, so only 1 BB usually isn't enough, but it's better than nothing. On simgle mode... I'm going to make an experience. Me vs 3 AIs, large map, average tech, organic rich, no rands, no ants, Impossible.
I'll let you know what I'll get around t100.
But I bet I'll probably use modded lasers than MIRV missiles, since they're quite more expensive to research than to build 2-3 modded laser BBs.

	13-11-2002 20:44									#170
	Put an end to popups!

Ok guys, her's what I got:
I went for MIRV nukes because I had a sweet Hydra system begging me to colonize it, so I went for it.
I met the Trilarians, and since I'm amost finishing building 2 fully modded laser BBs, they won't have much time left to live.

Check it out, and try to get the same I got by turn 100 in your own games.


Edit: Ohh I forgot to build the Space Academy in the colony Gontzol II. Build it before building the BB, because a laser BB with green crew is just an expensive suicide.

Attachment: zealot uniaqua +1prod +1pop t100.zip
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

Last edited by Zealot on 13-11-2002 at 20:51

	13-11-2002 22:51									#171
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I will try to get a look at it before the weekend. I am midway into a PTW game now. Note that the times I was using are for prewarp games.

	14-11-2002 13:03									#172
	Put an end to popups!

vmxa1, I promise that I will make some saves (duh! I used to play always without save :P) and complete log for you ....

I will try moomin's strategy for early diplomatic victory :-) with some modifications of myself and even try to beat the 7 turn time :-)
If I am successful I will tell you guys how I did it ....

	14-11-2002 13:19									#173
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Ok , I never tried the vote, just not for me. I use the vote in Moo to end the game once in awhile if I am bored.

	15-11-2002 14:17									#174
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

vxma1, I usually use the vote for the same reazon :-))) I like to kill them all (except 1) and go for Antares .....

I tried that strategy but I don't understand something - no matter how I play the first vote occurs for me always exactly after stardate 2.5 ..... No matter the race, or alliances, or colonies, or anything .... Does anyone know why this could be? May be beacuse I am playing 1.31? I don't remember how it was before the patch ......

	15-11-2002 14:22									#175
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

And here are the promised saves & logs:

With X/Y/Z I will notify that I changed my pop assigment that turn and X is for farmers, Y for Workers, Z for scientists; The first number in the row is the stardate when that happened :-)

Log for game 1:

0.0 3/0/5
0.2 3/1/4
0.3 3/3/2
0.4 Finished Research: Electronic Computer 3/0/5
0.7 Pilot Hawk appeared, I don't like him and dismissed him w/o hiring
1.1 Finished Research: Research Labs & Started building it 3/2/4
1.3 Pilot V'larr appeared 180 BC (has Megawealth)
1.4 Bought the Research Labs
1.6 Finished Research: Construction lvl.1
1.9 3/2/4
2.3 Finished Research: Automated Factories, Bought them
2.4 Started building trade goods, 50% tax
2.7 Finished Research: Hydroponics Farms
3.1 Hired V'larr (at last!) 0% tax Started building Hydroponics 4/2/5
3.4 Bought Hydroponics 4/0/7
3.7 3/2/6
4.0 Finished Research: Cloning center & bought it
4.1 Started Building Soil enrichment
4.6 Bought Soil enrichment 4/0/9 Started building Biospheres
5.1 Finished Research: Neural Scanners, Bought Biospheres
5.3 Leader Appeared: Rash-Iki
6.2 4/2/10
6.9 Researched Supercomputer & Bought it
7.0 Started building Holo Sim.
7.3 Finished Research: Battle Pods. Bought Holo Sim. 4/1/13
7.7 Finished Research: SpacePort & Bought it
7.8 Hired Rash Iki & Assigned to Sol 4/1/14
8.4 4/12/4 (Because of research going to 100%)
8.5 Finished Research: Robo Miners & Bought it 4/8/8
8.6 Finished Research: Freighters
8.7 Finished Research: Fuel cells
8.8 Finished Research: Lasers 4/3/13
8.9 Finished Research: Colony Ships
9.0 Leader appeared: Chug, Hired him & Assigned to Sol
9.1 Finished Research: Class I Shields
9.3 Finished Research: Deuterium
9.7 Finished Research: Force Fields lvl. 2
10.4 Finished Research: Class III Shields 4/0/18
10.5 Finished Research: Fusion 4/2/16
10.7 4/13/5
10.8 Finished Research: Battle Scanner 4/0/18
10.9 Finished Research: Space Academy & Started Building it 4/18/0
11.0 Built Space Academy, Started Building BB
11.3 Pilot Jarred appeared, Bought BB (save here)

Log for game 2:

0.0 3/0/5
0.2 3/1/4
0.3 3/3/2
0.4 Finished Research: Electronic Computer 3/0/5 (Again bad luck :-( )
0.9 3/2/3
1.1 3/2/4
1.3 Finished Research: Research Labs & Bought it 3/0/6
1.6 Finished Research: Biospheres (I don't know why I started this first, my mistake)
1.9 Finished Research: Constrction lvl.1
2.0 Pilot V'larr appeared (again :-) )
2.5 Finished Research: Automated Factories & Started Building it
3.0 Built Automated Factories. Started Building Hydroponics.
3.1 Hired V'larr 4/2/5
3.4 Bought Hydroponics
3.6 3/2/6 (should have done it at 3.5)
3.9 Appeared Pilot Jarred
4.0 Finished Research: Clonning Center & Bought it
4.1 Started building Soil Enrichment
4.5 Bought Soil Enrichment & Dismissed Jarred w/o hiring - decided that I cannot afford him
4.6 3/2/8
4.8 Bought Biospheres 3/0/10
5.0 Finished Research: Neural Scanner
5.7 Jarred Appeared again (this time he's better and for 300BC)
6.1 4/2/10
6.3 Finished Research: Supercomputer & Bought it
6.4 Started building holo simulator
6.6 Finished Research: Battle Pods
6.8 Bought Holo Sim.
7.1 Finished Research: Spaceport & Bought it
7.7 Finished Research: Robo Miners & Bought it 4/7/8
7.8 Finished Research: Freighters
7.9 Finished Research: Fuel Cells
8.0 Finished Research: Lasers 4/2/13
8.1 Finished Research: Colony Ship 4/0/15
(this game I am doing it a bit faster :-))
8.3 4/10/6
8.4 Finished Research: Class I Shield
8.6 Hired Jarred (on the last turn possible)
9.0 Finished Research: Force Fields lvl.2
9.4 Gnolams contacted me. Made trade & Research with them
9.6 Leader Khunagg appeared & Hired him & assigned to Sol
Somewhere here my planet became Ultra rich :-) Did someone say that a player cannot get lucky :-) I was sooooo happy that I forgot to log the exact star date of this event :-)
9.8 Sakkra contacted me (they are repulsive, duh ....)
9.9 Finished Research: Class III Shield
10.1 4/15/3
10.2 Finished Research: Deuterium Fuel Cells 4/0/18
10.3 Finished Research: Fusion
10.4 Finished Research: Space Academy & Started building it 10/0/18
10.5 Built Space Academy
10.6 4/16/2
10.7 Finished Research: Battle Scanner, Started Building BB
10.8 Bought BB, Made Non Agression with Gnolam (save here)
Now Jarred will go to hunt some Sakkras :-) Many colonies with large pops ...
They are tolerant too and I will make them excellent workers.
--------------
I played it a bit further: Jarred first killed an eel (not even a treat :-) & by 14.5 there was Sakkra Empire no more ....

	15-11-2002 14:31									#176
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Ah, here are the saves for my previous post - I forgot to attach them, sorry :-)

Attachment: saves.zip
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	15-11-2002 23:14									#177
	Got spare money?

bakalov, I can't help with the vote stuff. I got the save and will check it out right after Zelots, which is up today. I finished the PTW game last night.

	16-11-2002 03:54									#178
	Support Apolyton

Ok Zealot, I ran a game with those specs. I am at turn 72 and have a BB in the queue with something like 22 turns. The pop is set 3 farmers, 7 ind and 7 sci. IOW I could make it sooner if need be. I will come back to this game later as bakalov has a run I want to look at.

Attachment: save2.sav
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	16-11-2002 03:56									#179
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Just in case anyone what tocheck out the start. I have a log if needed, I can post it.

Attachment: save1.sav
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	16-11-2002 06:45									#180
	Increase Your PM Length

bakalov, I rn the first game out to T114 with my normal mode. I see the Sakkra are neighbors and will be calling when they get the range. I have no clue how big they are, but knowing them it will be large. I am going to try to run the second game exactly as you did and see what I get. I am not sure if the first game is in trouble or not. The second game may be ok, if you can get very aggressive. Did you play either of them out farther? If so what happened? Here is the t114 form my first run so ou can see and tell me if there is any real difference or not. I have three colonies and an outpost.

Attachment: save9.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).