30-06-2002 08:48									#121
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Well I have made 3 passes and can not make contact before turn 1xx. Last one was 109. With only std fuel you can only reach Vhe (scout killed), Borea (colony soon), Shih, Gazelle, and Musator. Without a research treaty and maybe even with one and no Sci leader, the milestone are out of reach. That is not a problem except to still be on the timeline in any fashion. Must be bad Karma or something.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 30-06-2002 at 08:57

	30-06-2002 09:13									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader 10 got tech, reinforced hull 22 got tech, auto factories 35 got tech, hydro farms 46 got tech, research lab 58 meet Mrrshans, got a trade deal

well with one pop only on Industry and the min on food, I could never get AF before turn 32. On t11 I started the research for it. I am generating 9rp at that time. AF is a 150 rp tech, so I need about 14 turn appx. This is not exact as I may get more pop during this run. I could get a lucky roll and get the tech with a low %. So I could expect to hit it as early as say 2 more turns. I am not that lucky. It in fact as taken me to turn 32 every time.
At t31 I am at 26%, which is about as low a percent chance as you could normally expect. None of that matters for contact, it just never occurs for me.
Ran one more pass from t11 and in fact no more pop and rp is still 9, it never varies and I never see any leaders this early. This is why I provide data if any event occurs that has imact. In the first 150 turns or so, getting a leader is an impact. Steals and trades are an impact. I will load up and edit in a sci leader and see if that makes it work.

	30-06-2002 10:19									#123
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If I ive myself EMO, I can move to get AF around turn 28. I am generating 10rp at that time. At t38 I am ableto now get farms. This allow move pop from farms to sci and gen 17rp. T52 get labs and buy them (37 rp.
Ran one more pass from t11 and in fact no more pop and rp is still 9, it never varies and I never see any leaders this early. Made earlest contact at t73. Looks like I would need a second Sci leader to cut it.
Gv what is meltpot editor?

	30-06-2002 10:39									#124
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Ok with Urro and Emo I hit Hulls on turn 10. Without moving pop (IOW, just clicking till researched) I hit AF on T25, it could have been 22 with movement or luck.

	30-06-2002 21:14									#125
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Crap, I can't get the saves today. Had no problem on Fri at work. I hope I didn't delete them there. I'll let you know tomorrow if I need a repost.

Moom,

What kind of fun would that game be? Seems more of a bug, or at least a flaw in the logic of the game engine.

Garth,

Wow, so you pretty much just roll through everyone with a power fleet? Not even that interested in taking planets.

	30-06-2002 21:39									#126
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quote: Originally posted by RPMisCOOL Moom, What kind of fun would that game be? Seems more of a bug, or at least a flaw in the logic of the game engine.

Well, you can consider diplomatic victory as such a bug in the game, I guess - but I can't see why going after it aggresively would make it more of a flaw than it is.

And it is strategy. Rsky, for sure - you will be uncomfortable indeed if you lose that first election, because race relations eventually break down no matter what. But I like risky, on the edge strategies - I have more fun this way than slow build up with a safe early war and a safe eventual clean-up.

Different strokes for differnt folks.

	30-06-2002 22:11									#127
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Gv what is meltpot editor?

It's a race editor. You can make super races, rename things, even change the race graphics.

well with one pop only on Industry and the min on food,

I spent a few turns working on a freighter fleet, bought the rest of it and took the guy off industry. I wish I had made note of when I got the +5 research leader.

Wow, so you pretty much just roll through everyone with a power fleet? Not even that interested in taking planets.

The key here is that 3 close races to me had no planetary defences. This means that a cruiser could take just about any planet. So I could split my fleet up and take everything quickly with telepathic.

In a more typical game when I am boxed in by races with good defence early I usually win in the 320-350 turn range.

	30-06-2002 22:27									#128
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Understand that what a tele does is to mind control. It is better to grab a partially built planet and then you can get it up quickly (fully assimilated instantly). If you start a planet from other than Home systems and very early, they are vulnerable. Teles need only a cruiser that can defeat a star base in the early game. If you are tele and creative you have a lower production race and are open to a bruiser race that is close by. In Garths game, if the Klacs were his neighbor instead of Mrrs, you could be in trouble. They could drop on you before you can get enough power to stop them. For instance, if the Mrrs had refused to make trades and went to war. They could drop a blockade on your butt and you would have big problems before T100. They could have easily done that. In fact that is what they did to me the first time I ran the early part. Creative races are not easy to play at impossible levels, unless they leave you alone for awhile, hence Garth starts in a corner. You would be toast if you where in the middle of the universe (most of the time).

	30-06-2002 22:44									#129
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GV thanks for the post. When you list built cruiser around T118 was that a start build or a complete build? The CB was that a start around 134 or complete? Were you moving pop around, buying? I went to a short hand to denote some events to allow reproducting the run. 0,3,0 for pop allocation (#on food, # on ind, #on sci). 8,0,40,0 where it is income,food,ind,sci. Reporting all start builts or start research. The latter I only use in trials to see what effect a given build order has.

	30-06-2002 22:56									#130
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Starting with the second save file.
T107 spy done, srt cruiser, (Battle Pods Heavy Arm Class I 11 nucs ARM/FST
T110 got drive, R- pollution (146 RP) 21-B, 94-C, 11-T,10 Giz, 10 Urro
T113 starbase done on B, srt bio
T116 srt spy on B
T117 R-spce port
T121 R-robo, spy done, srt PP on B, switch PP on HW
T122 srt port on HW, redesign CA to have mirv
T125 Space Flux (happen 4/5 times
T127 R-space Acad switch from ship to robo on HW
T128 srt cruiser again
T129 R-renewer, srt robo on B
T134 missile base on B

	30-06-2002 23:23									#131
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T136 flux gone
T137 hire Grogg
T139 R-amc, Mrrs stole pow arm
T140 srt renewer on B
T143 srt spy on B, srt renwer on HW
T144 R- blaster, srt acad on HW
T145 srt spy on B, redesign CA add Pulson
(5 nucs 2 mercs 7 pulson)
sorry got sloppy and failed to note I bought the second CA after a few turns
T151 declare war took Shih got telepathic training, anties
T152 drve off 1 BB (here is where I asked why no Fast racks? If I had them I would have been able to kill BB
T153 killed a attacking BB
T155 redesign scoutfor merc, aug engines HA refit it and then srt battle station on B
T159 srt CA on HW
T162 capture Musatorgot autolab, R-micro
T163 srt autolab on B, redesign CA to have fast rack
T167 refit a CA, srt autolab on HW
R-terraform (some more sloppy note taking, it was late
T176 R-subt
T187 captured can't read the name got Grav Gen
T188 got Gazelle (undefended now have 4 CA 1 scout
-10 BC (466 saved) 0 CP 0 food 2(10) Fr 278 RP
T191 R-stock
T198 Antie show up with 4 ships. I had MB and was doing Fighter Garrison. The garrison was done in time and I sent 1 CA to add to 1 CA already there. Stomped them no lose. R-anti grav
T200 captured one planet on Minbar, klac then demand it and I gave it to them.
T201 captured the other planet on Minbar and gave it Klacs without prompting as it was poor or ultrapoor and they had a huge fleet. I proceed to give them some junk tech. R-rad shields
T202 capture got the name wrong got Z armor yahoo
T203 captured Hap Mrrs have one system left.
I have refit all CA to have fast racks and have my scout to stay behind. I have terraformed most of the early planets and now only have to see if any monster fleets can hit me before I am ready.

	01-07-2002 05:34									#132
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By T356 I had enough of chasing their fleets around and occassionally catching one, so I went to Anties and whacked their HW. I has 13 systems. All tech done, was going to kill everyone, but decided I would like to run the third save GV gave us to see how much work it would be to get out the defict. I know it will be just a few turns and I will not have any treaties and no one will be voting for me. I just do not like to leave any planets in a vulnerable spot, so I am slow about grabbing the next victum. Should be fun.

	01-07-2002 19:03									#133
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GV,

Got the saves at work and emailed them home to myself. No need to repost. Thanks.

	01-07-2002 19:06									#134
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quote: Originally posted by moominparatrooper Well, you can consider diplomatic victory as such a bug in the game, I guess - but I can't see why going after it aggresively would make it more of a flaw than it is. And it is strategy. Rsky, for sure - you will be uncomfortable indeed if you lose that first election, because race relations eventually break down no matter what. But I like risky, on the edge strategies - I have more fun this way than slow build up with a safe early war and a safe eventual clean-up. Different strokes for differnt folks.

I do not consider a diplomatic victory a bug in the game. I consider it a bug that in the advanced set-up, that there is not more of a waiting period before the first vote, say 50+ turns. How can it be fun to play a 7 turn game of Moo2?

R:PM

	01-07-2002 22:11									#135
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quote: Originally posted by moominparatrooper Well, you can consider diplomatic victory as such a bug in the game, I guess - but I can't see why going after it aggresively would make it more of a flaw than it is. Different strokes for differnt folks.

I do not view it as a cheat perse, it is just not for me.

	01-07-2002 22:17									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader The key here is that 3 close races to me had no planetary defences. This means that a cruiser could take just about any planet. So I could split my fleet up and take everything quickly with telepathic. In a more typical game when I am boxed in by races with good defence early I usually win in the 320-350 turn range.

That is what I see, about in the 300 range.

	01-07-2002 22:28									#137
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Not sure how it is in Moo2, but in Moo you had to have 2/3 of the planets colonized before a vote came up. The manual does not say. In an advance tech game for a small universe and 8 players, you will have a large portion of the universe colonized. I can't say I ever had a vote anyway near that early, but I am not sure. I find the vote to be an annoyance and wish I could turn it off.

	01-07-2002 22:29									#138
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GV thanks for the post. When you list built cruiser around T118 was that a start build or a complete build?

I am not sure what you mean by that, I bought the last few turns of the first cruiser, and started the next one right after (I think).

Were you moving pop around, buying?

Yes, and yes. On a new colony I buy the Auto Fac right away if I can afford it, and I send one extra unit of population. I also send one pop unit to alien colonies that aren't subterranean.

If I have cash I will try and buy production improvements on colonies, and sometimes will finish ship builds. Once I am strong I usually let things like that lapse.

	01-07-2002 22:31									#139
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Man, this is wierd. I did not see Garths post from 6/30 until this morning? I guess I will have to be sure to exit the site each time. I thought the refresh would do the job???

	01-07-2002 22:41									#140
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That is what I tend to do, buy some items if I can afford to, but not spend my self into the poor house unless it is to hold the planet. I was just not sure if the entry meant you have the cruiser or were starting to build it. Just trying to follow along and see if Iwas hitting the marks. It was hard to do, if pop was move, but not noted. Anyway it was fun.
Does meltpopt do anything that corion2 does not? Does it provide for adding ships to the game by use csh files? I have some ships that someone created and are in csh files and I do not know what to do to add them into the game to see what they look like and what they do.

	01-07-2002 22:54									#141
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Man, this is wierd. I did not see Garths post from 6/30 until this morning? I guess I will have to be sure to exit the site each time. I thought the refresh would do the job???

I've never had that problem. I usually go to the forum top and go back in though.

	01-07-2002 23:19									#142
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It has been the last few days. I have had 4 trips where I did not see a given post and came back later and it was there before my own post. I will keep an eye on it.

	02-07-2002 00:39									#143
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perhaps cuz I bounce from forum to forum?

Hey guys, can't thank you enough for the walk throughs of the masters (well except for Moom's).

And GV, I'll keep asking questions as long as the answer is not:

Bo and Luke, I am your father!

R:PM

	02-07-2002 03:26									#144
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Does meltpopt do anything that corion2 does not? Does it provide for adding ships to the game by use csh files?

To answer that question I would need to know what corion2 does

You can create races using however many points you want. You can take techs off the tree, which you have to do if you have created a super race (evolutionary mutation). You can change the default names (leaders, ships, homeworld). You can change the race graphics (a small and a medium bitmap). I think that's about it.

	02-07-2002 04:24									#145
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Google search gives you Corion2 pages. I just figured out that it will in fact let me load those saved ships I was talking about (csh files). I was able to load them into the game as either replacements for existing ships or as templates for any new ones to build. I have not tried to drop tech from the tree, but I would think it could. I know that if ou want to make a race with more than the 10 picks, you can select mutation as a "learned" tech to avoid the problem of get to add 4 picks and already being past the limit.

	09-07-2002 21:02									#146
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I've never had much luck with missle boats. I tend to push toward beam tech superiority as soon as possible. I also like having the best armor and shields I can get through tech trading. A Titan armored/reinforced hull loaded to the max with shield piercing/auto-fire phasers is a terror to behold for a good part of the game. Missle boats are useful for cracking planet defenses or to tie up enemy fire power though.

]

	09-07-2002 21:23									#147
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I like to get beamers as well, but in the first 100 turns at impossible you will have a tough time, especially if not creative. A telepath can use a missile boat for some time to bust starbases and mind control. SB are not much until they get heavy armor and maybe even some shields. If you have fast racks with Mirv you can launch and leave. You take no loses to the capitol ships and just leave a scout behind. Phasors can work all the way to the end. I have loaded up doom stars with them and slaughtered whole fleets with one packed with specials. Autofire and shield perice mods are mean. I often have a few missile boats left at the end and they are pumped up with arm/shields and Pulsons. They slam into battlestations and SF and retreat with no loses. Opening round fire does not hurt them as they are quite strong by the end of the game, especially if I get X-arm. I keep them around if not tele so they can sit on planets while I assimilate them.

	02-11-2002 06:16									#148
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Bump for xoham

	06-11-2002 10:15									#149
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This thread was a big help. I use MIRV nuclear missles as soon as I get them to take down space monsters. Speaking of space monsters, I had a game where the giant space amoeba came right for my home planet of Mentar, decimated the defenses then ATE THE PLANET. It was a cool animation that I have not seen in the many many years I've been playing the game. Something about my new playstyle seems to invite space monster attacks.

	06-11-2002 13:39									#150
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No fleet to defend? Nasty business.