14-02-2002 04:56									#61
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I'm a Canadian and biased but

1. as a layperson it was obvious the Canadians were flawless in a program they have done before in international competition and garnered top marks. Why would the same program done BETTER garner lower marks ?

2. The professional commentators were certain of the Canadian victory before the marks were announced. These are professional skaters who should have a clue about what is going on. I have never seen them be this emphatic about a result and be wrong and Canadians have come close to gold many times in the past in skating events with no outcry.

3. The reactions of Sale and pelltier themselves made it obvious they knew they had nailed the program and the look of suprise and shock on their faces at the marks was obvious and genuine. They KNEW they had won. They are experienced skaters that have competed for many years. Are we saying that the skaters themselves are wrong?? Did not everyone see the dejected demeanour of the Russians after they skated . . . they KNEW they had not skated well.

4. As I understand figure skating scoring, it is all about rankings. If the 2nd place in the short program wins the long program, they win the competition. They do not aggregate the marks so if the Canadians won the long program the gold was theirs.

5. Arguments about the greater difficulty just don't cut it . Doing slightly harder things badly does not qualify for higher marks. Consider the mens program where skaters who attempted and failed on a quad were marked much lower than skaters that cleanly completed a triple. To get credit for the harder element, you have to complete it successfully.


This is ice dance all over again.

	14-02-2002 07:24									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber 5. Arguments about the greater difficulty just don't cut it . Doing slightly harder things badly does not qualify for higher marks.

True, but doing easy things flawlessly doesn't cut it either. Apparently what killed the Canadians was their presentation. Boring, lackluster, killing time performance doesn't get you points. Also, they had ugly grey uniforms (and believe, that's part of presentation). They just weren't very interesting to watch, even if they did it well.

	14-02-2002 07:32									#63
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara True, but doing easy things flawlessly doesn't cut it either. Apparently what killed the Canadians was their presentation. Boring, lackluster, killing time performance doesn't get you points. Also, they had ugly grey uniforms (and believe, that's part of presentation). They just weren't very interesting to watch, even if they did it well.

I watched both pairs skate (when your daughter competes in the same sport, you can't avoid watching it) and I had the exact opposite reaction that you did. The Russian pair didn't even look graceful most of the time... it was almost painful to watch... and when they finished, the looks on their faces said it all. They knew they hadn't done their best.
On the other hand, the Canadians looked so good, and it surely wasn't boring, lackluster, or a killing time performance. Their confidence and perfection matched with their emotion made for a powerful performance....

But again... just one person's opinion (well... two, my daughter agrees with me)

	14-02-2002 07:50									#64
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Like I said, I can't say anything about the Russians (except that they had a harder routine). I'm comparing the Canadians with the Chinese, who, despite a fall, had an amazing performance.

I have the misfortune of having a GF who simply adores figure skating, and thus I am forced to watch large quantities of this sport. Along the way, I've picked up on some of things judges consider.

I forget the name of the French skater several years ago, who was doing back and front flips on the ice. I was floored, I'd never seen this before, and despite her flawless performace, she failed to win the gold. Why, she wasn't skating as fast or as low as the other skaters, thus reducing her level of difficulty. Of course, it didn't help that she's Black in a sport that dislikes working class and minority (with the exception of Asians, now) skaters.

	14-02-2002 07:52									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Ming I watched both pairs skate (when your daughter competes in the same sport, you can't avoid watching it) and I had the exact opposite reaction that you did. The Russian pair didn't even look graceful most of the time... it was almost painful to watch... and when they finished, the looks on their faces said it all. They knew they hadn't done their best. On the other hand, the Canadians looked so good, and it surely wasn't boring, lackluster, or a killing time performance. Their confidence and perfection matched with their emotion made for a powerful performance.... But again... just one person's opinion (well... two, my daughter agrees with me)

Just a wild guess but I would say from what I have read, seen, heard we are the majority of percentage world wide by far of the people who agree with THEY WERE SCREWED. The minority, by a mile seem to have chegitz guevara's opinion, a very small percentage.

I heard tonight on the news that the French judge said she was ordered by her government to vote Russian in exchange for the russians to vote France in the dance competition.

	14-02-2002 07:59									#66
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Well... it is a matter of opinion... and therefore, the need for judges. I just find it so interesting that two people could watch the exact same thing, and walk away with totally difference experiences...

	14-02-2002 08:10									#67
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Reaction was instantaneous. A poll put up on www.NBCOlympics.com and www.Olympics.com asking users who should have won the gold medal grew by the thousands as the minutes passed. By Wednesday at 2 p.m. MT, more than 307,000 users had voted with the Canadians holding a commanding 92 percent to 8 percent margin.

True it would appear in this case and in ALL polls etc. That the reality is 92 out of 100 saw the same thing a mere 8 saw something else...they could account for the eight toilets flushing when they were skating?

	14-02-2002 08:11									#68
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Results just in: 8% of people just like being contrary

	14-02-2002 08:16									#69
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Come on what's the big fuc**** deal this is just fgure skating.

Let's put the Ruskies and the Canadians on the ice at the same time and let them fight it out in an all out out steel cage fight to the death. We need to teach these fags the true meaning of compition.

Ice skating won't be a real sport until they put defense into the game.

	14-02-2002 08:18									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Peacemaker Let's put the Ruskies and the Canadians on the ice at the same time and let them fight it out in an all out out steel cage fight to the death. We need to teach these fags the true meaning of compition.

	14-02-2002 08:22									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Peacemaker We need to teach these fags the true meaning of compition.

One more comment like that one, and you will get a restriction!

	14-02-2002 08:30									#72
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Seems Peacemaker you simply do not understand the enormous amount of time, dedication, finesse and physical fitness involved in the sport...

	14-02-2002 08:33									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Ming One more comment like that one, and you will get a restriction!

I sorry. Can you tell me the name of one male skater who is not a homosexual.

	14-02-2002 08:34									#74
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The results of the poll are not surprising. There are much less Internet users in Russia than in North America. Besides, I doubt that Russian users use to frequent those particular sites.

As for the French judge, it looks very suspicious. Why would she ever confess to anything like that? Isn't it simply a canard?

	14-02-2002 08:36									#75
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond The results of the poll are not surprising. There are much less Internet users in Russia than in North America. Besides, I doubt that Russian users use to frequent those particular sites. As for the French judge, it looks very suspicious. Why would she ever confess to anything like that? Isn't it simply a canard?

Certainly, all those Canadians voting on NBC's website made it so lopsided...

Your arguments are getting more and more lame.

And Peacemaker: Bend over, *****.

	14-02-2002 08:40									#76
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Seems Peacemaker you simply do not understand the enormous amount of time, dedication, finesse and physical fitness involved in the sport...

I understand the talant involved in skating but anything that involves the winner being "chosen" is not a true sport.

	14-02-2002 08:42									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Peacemaker I sorry. Can you tell me the name of one male skater who is not a homosexual.

The majority of NBA players are black... but if you call them the "N" word... you would get restricted too.

Leave out the bigoted attitude... or find some place else to post.

	14-02-2002 08:45									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Ming The majority of NBA players are black... but if you call them the "N" word... you would get restricted too. Leave out the bigoted attitude... or find some place else to post.

But a black preson is normal.

	14-02-2002 08:46									#79
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I don't even think most figure skaters are gay.

A lot of them aren't even very effeminate.

Get a clue.

	14-02-2002 08:47									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Peacemaker But a black preson is normal.

See you in three days...

	14-02-2002 09:23									#81
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vagabound

Ihave seen a lot of Canadian figure skaters lose out in close competition to Russian/ soviet skaters over the years. It is a tribute to the strength of the Russian/Soviet program. In a couple of those years the natural bias I hold led me to think that perhaps the canadians had deserved to win but each time i could accept the result because it WAS close and i could see how the other skater(s) could be seen as the winner -- I have a bias but am aware of it and in those competitions I could accept the result and cheer wholeheartedly for the winners.

Not this time. The canadians performed close to perfect while there were several errors in the Russian program. The winner was obvious and we celebrated as the Canadians had skated the best on that night.

So you cannot put this off to national bias or sour grapes. yes i am a proud Canadian but I have accepted close losses before with equanimity. This time it stinks, the decision was obviously political and harkens back to the ice dance competition of 4 years ago when prior to the competition a person predicted with perfect accuracy the top 5 placings of 5 of the judges (and named which judges would form the voting bloc). The other 4 judges had variation among themselves and some downright disagreement with the 5 judge majority but the majority was perfectly aligned as predicted and corruption was widely acknowledged after the fact.

	14-02-2002 09:36									#82
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Latest report...
The Head of the French Olympic team has just told the AP that the French judge was a "fragile person" who had been manipulated...
It just keeps getting better with each report

	14-02-2002 09:45									#83
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Che: "Of course, it didn't help that she's Black in a sport that dislikes working class and minority (with the exception of Asians, now) skaters."



You know, not everything is the result of injustice/prejudice.

Anyway, how can you get any more working-class than Tonya Harding, who got a pass to redo her routine back in '94?

	14-02-2002 09:54									#84
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Very true, but they really hated her and loved Nancy Kerrigan. I remember constantly seeing stories talking about what a horrible person Harding was, and how wonderful Kerrigan was. The irony, of course, is from thos people who knew them, Tanya was a very nice and sweet person while Nancy earned the title Ice Queen. The reality of their personalities didn't matter. The press and judges loved the middle class woman and hated the working class girl with the termerity to rise above her station.

Now, Kerrigan was a much better skater than Harding, I'm not denying this. Nor did I deny that the French skater wasn't as good as I originally thought she was. What looked amazing to my untrained eye (at the time) was infact, not all that hard, which is the main reason she didn't score well (which I stated previously).

	14-02-2002 10:01									#85
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These new revelations are down right disgusting!

Hell, I knew the Oscars were fixed because of " The color purple " but the Olympics?

Sorta turns my stomach

	14-02-2002 10:03									#86
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Harding was a Socio-path Che. (look at what she did in the name of Jealousy?)


I think "Inside Edition" Made that point many.....many times

	14-02-2002 10:05									#87
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She didn't do anything. Her husband and bodyguard cooked it up and did it. She was always tarred with guilt by association.

And thank you for illustrating my point, FG.

	14-02-2002 10:06									#88
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She does not make good porn either

	14-02-2002 10:06									#89
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You actually buy that?

	14-02-2002 10:08									#90
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You actually believe that story that she knew nothing?