20-02-2002 17:55									#121
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Alright, maybe so..err..you're propably right. But how about Israeli Defence forces? 10 schoolchildren injured in a air-raid? Oh, they were terrorists, right? And those 12 policeman killed today? Again, we must stop those damn terrorists , not. The Israeli army has killed more civilians, more security officials and now Sharon wants Arafat killed? Very humane and a true warrior for the good of the people!
I bet he has "egalite, fraternite, liberte" tattooed up in hes ass

	20-02-2002 17:57									#122
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Alright, maybe so..err..you're propably right. But how about Israeli Defence forces? 10 schoolchildren injured in a air-raid? Oh, they were terrorists, right? And those 12 policeman killed today? Again, we must stop those damn terrorists , not. The Israeli army has killed more civilians, more security officials and now Sharon wants Arafat killed? Very humane and a true warrior for the good of the people! I bet he has "egalite, fraternite, liberte" tattooed up in hes ass

"policemen" of a terrorist organization. And there are accidental civilian casualties; however, if you were a terrorist, wouldn't you hang out with schoolchildren where if you doe, so do they?

	20-02-2002 18:04									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Goingonit "policemen" of a terrorist organization. And there are accidental civilian casualties; however, if you were a terrorist, wouldn't you hang out with schoolchildren where if you doe, so do they?

Since when has Police Dep. been a terrorist org?

Seriously, you can't approve civilian casualties in any situation. Otherwise you start to sound like our friend Mr. bin Laden...

	20-02-2002 18:28									#124
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"Would you care to compare the level of censorship in Austria with the level of censorship in the U.S. during any period in the last 100 years?"

Define "censorship".

	20-02-2002 18:34									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Roland "Would you care to compare the level of censorship in Austria with the level of censorship in the U.S. during any period in the last 100 years?" Define "censorship".

I would, but it's been cut out of my U.S. Department of Reeducation approved dictionary!

	20-02-2002 18:38									#126
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Censureship isn't enough efficient. Brain washing is far better !

	20-02-2002 18:44									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander I would, but it's been cut out of my U.S. Department of Reeducation approved dictionary!

Then... why do you know the word at all ? Seems you need at least one more Republican Convention...

	20-02-2002 18:51									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Roland Then... why do you know the word at all ? Seems you need at least one more Republican Convention...

Actually there is perhaps something even more sinister afoot. I notice that Social Security is going to run dry about the time I, and many other people who know the 'C' word are set to retire. Perhaps the budget balances and we don't know it. Bush said he would never touch the Social Security trust fund, but he never said anything about not touching Social Security recipients.

	20-02-2002 19:49									#129
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I read that Sharon has approved a "new response" in reaction to the recent attacks. What could it be? Short of a full scale military response, it seems like Israel is already responding pretty strongly to the attacks.

	20-02-2002 20:32									#130
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Alright, maybe so..err..you're propably right. But how about Israeli Defence forces? 10 schoolchildren injured in a air-raid? Oh, they were terrorists, right? And those 12 policeman killed today? Again, we must stop those damn terrorists , not.

That not nice, indeed, but it will happen as long as the idiot-terrorists keep bombing pizzerias and shoot random cars. Terrorism just cannot be accepted ever, and sometimes force must be used.

	20-02-2002 21:32									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui [q]IAnd yes, I respect Arafat more. He's a freedom fighter. It is easy to just cast off those in positions of weakness to be terrorists. That is what the British did with the Founding Fathers of the US. Arafat has been fighting for the freedom of an oppressed people, which makes him much better in my book that a General that slaughtered people that were in no way as strong as the country the general comes from.

Do you honestly believe that Imran? Arafat's people are the one's who killed the Israeli athletes in Munich, the ones who hijacked a cruise ship (singled out an American for execution and dumped him overboard), and now I just heard that a former (Romanian, I think it was) General accussed him of ordering the assasination of a US Ambassador.


If he kept his actions against Israeli military and politicians, then maybe he could be considered a "freedom fighter." He doesn't, thus he's a terrorist.

	20-02-2002 23:35									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Would you care to compare the level of censorship in Austria with the level of censorship in the U.S. during any period in the last 100 years?

I would: Over the past 50 years, we had no censorship. Whatsoever.

quote: Mark Twain has never been banned in the U.S., ...

Oh, yes. Some of his political writings have been banned. That´s why you have never heard of them, I guess. They are more strongly anti-US than anything Chomsky.

	20-02-2002 23:42									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune Oh, yes. Some of his political writings have been banned.

Name one piece, with the requisite evidence of course.

	21-02-2002 01:38									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Yes. I want to see the whole truth and strive to reach it, regardless of whether i fail objectively or not. You want to see a certain truth, and strive to reach it, regardless of the wholer truth.

Bullsh!t, you´re just as biased as I am. You just don´t want to admit it...

	23-02-2002 07:59									#135
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Name one piece, with the requisite evidence of course.

Banned: Huckleberry Finn, TomSawyer, Eve´s Diary.
http://www.boondocksnet.com/twainwww/twain_banned.html

Even worse: He was unscrupulously censored by his literary executor:
http://www.boondocksnet.com/ai/twain/contested.html

"In the volumes of Twain's letters, essays and stories, notebooks, and autobiographical dictations published under Paine's tenure as literary executor, many references to the Philippine-American War and unflattering characterizations of American presidents and soldiers were stricken from the texts, often leaving no indication that the writings were inspired by the war. Paine's judgement and the interests of the "Harper Mark Twain property" did not require consistent removal of all references to the war, however, and the editorial choices Paine made at different times give us a glimpse of the changing attitudes about imperialism from the publication of Mark Twain: A Biography in 1912 to his edition of the notebooks in 1935.

Paine's official biography did not mention that Mark Twain was an officer of the Anti-Imperialist League but it did include several discussions of his anti-imperialist writings, including a short chapter on the Philippine-American War. Excerpts from a number of previously unpublished essays, stories, letters, and sketches were also included within the main text or appendices. Of all of Paine's work on Twain, the biography is the most forthright about the latter's anti-imperialist writings and activities. There are some glaring misinterpretations but no obvious signs of censorship.

Paine's two-volume edition of Mark Twain's Letters was published in 1917 and it provides the earliest clear example of censorship aimed at preserving the "traditional Mark Twain." Paine silently edited a letter Twain wrote on 24 January 1901, to his Hartford friend and pastor, Rev. Joseph H. Twichell. Fortunately, this letter survives intact in the Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library at Yale University. "I am going to stick close to my desk for a month, now," Twain wrote, "hoping to write a small book, full of playful and good-natured contempt for the lousy McKinley." Twichell knew what to expect from such a book. In a widely reported speech delivered earlier in the month, Twain described President McKinley as the man who sent U.S. troops to the Philippines "to fight with a disgraced musket under a polluted flag." After Paine's editing, the published version of this letter ends with Twain "hoping to write a small book."(23) Period. It seems safe to assume that readers of Mark Twain Letters, like readers of any renowned author's letters, would want to know what that "small book" was about, but "contempt for the lousy McKinley" did not fit Paine's image of "the traditional Mark Twain" that he was in the business of preserving."

If Twain was still among us, he would certainly voice his contempt for the lousy George Bush as well.

	23-02-2002 08:12									#136
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Btw, this sounds quite like Afghanistan today (or, of course, Phillippines today):

Warfare continued in the northern provinces of the Philippines, but in November of 1902 the U.S. Philippine Commission passed the "Bandolerismo Statute" or "Brigandage Act" which defined all further armed resistance to U.S. rule as banditry.(4) Warfare continued but the war was essentially defined away, and the last holdouts among the Filipino officers on the northern front were hanged as bandits in 1907. Their deaths provided the U.S. with the opportunity to establish the Philippine Assembly that year; its creation was delayed until "pacification" was complete in the northern islands. While those events were taking place in the north, the United States opened the war's second front against the Muslim Filipinos of the southern Philippines. The Bates Agreement negotiated in 1899 had forestalled warfare with the Muslim Filipinos by promising them autonomy. In early 1903 U.S. troops were ordered to occupy the southern islands. Moro Province was formed under U.S. military rule in September and in March of 1904 the U.S. unilaterally abrogated the Bates Agreement. Two of the worst massacres of the war occurred in the south in 1906 and 1913, and the U.S. military government of Moro Province was not lifted until December 1913.(5) Mark Twain continued to write about the war until shortly before his death because the war was still going on.

http://www.boondocksnet.com/ai/twain/contested.html

	23-02-2002 08:15									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune Banned: Huckleberry Finn, TomSawyer, Eve´s Diary.

You do know that it would help your case immensly if you had chosen books that I wasn't able to go right to my library or the neighbohood bookstore and pick up those books as we speak.

	23-02-2002 08:25									#138
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Mark Twain also made a great suggestion for changing the US flag: (Have) "the white stripes painted black and the stars replaced by the skull and cross-bones."

He really must have foreseen the New World Order.

	23-02-2002 08:28									#139
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc You do know that it would help your case immensly if you had chosen books that I wasn't able to go right to my library or the neighbohood bookstore and pick up those books as we speak.

Weak. I said they have been banned; I didn´t say they are still being banned. But most Americans have no idea what Mark Twain really thought and said about US foreign policy. US education is quite 'selective' here.

	23-02-2002 08:32									#140
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Or, in the words of Mark Twain himself:

"None but the dead have free speech.

None but the dead are permitted to speak truth.

In America -- as elsewhere -- free speech is confined to the dead."

	24-02-2002 09:56									#141
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Since when has Police Dep. been a terrorist org?

Since policemen didn't prevent a lynch of soldiers.
Since policemen began ambushing Israeli cars and shooting into them.
Since policemen began helping terrorists and supplying arms to them.
Since policemen began making shooting terracts in Israeli cities.

quote: Seriously, you can't approve civilian casualties in any situation. Otherwise you start to sound like our friend Mr. bin Laden...

Tsk tsk tsk.

The difference is on the intention.

quote: Originally posted by laurentius Alright, maybe so..err..you're propably right. But how about Israeli Defence forces? 10 schoolchildren injured in a air-raid? Oh, they were terrorists, right?

No, they were innocent by standers.

But IDF didn't target them and didn't intend to kill them.

quote: And those 12 policeman killed today? Again, we must stop those damn terrorists , not.

I understand that you don't know that many of the last shooting terracts in israeli cities and on israeli cars were comitted by policemen.

Now you know.

quote: The Israeli army has killed more civilians, more security officials and now Sharon wants Arafat killed? Very humane and a true warrior for the good of the people!

1) The intention matters, not the result. Not that it doesn't count. But while IDF is perhaps guilty of recklesness, Arafat and his forces and the terrorist groups supported by him are guilty of murder.

2) Security Officials of the palestinian police participate in terror. Even openly. Several of the last terrorists in Isralei towns were PA cops.

3) Arafat released, willingly and not under pressure, the terrorists from Hamas and Islamic Jihad a month into the intifada, when it was weak.

THen, until we twisted his arm he has done nothing to contain them.

Now, when we are twisting his arm, he says that twisting his arm prevents him from acting.

Well, why didn't he act before we twisted his arm and when we asked nicely?

quote: I bet he has "egalite, fraternite, liberte" tattooed up in hes ass

He does actually

quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Bullsh!t, you´re just as biased as I am. You just don´t want to admit it...

No, I admit I'm biased because of the information sources open to me, and because I'm not god.

You are the one claiming absolute knowledge.

I only claim that I try to make the most objective judgement.

I also remind you I never claimed I argue my honest judgement here. I do try to, however.

	24-02-2002 10:31									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune Mark Twain also made a great suggestion for changing the US flag: (Have) "the white stripes painted black and the stars replaced by the skull and cross-bones." He really must have foreseen the New World Order.

That was with regards to the Philippines. Something I'm sure you didn't know, that a good deal of Americans were unconfortable with the imperialism of that time. The Philippines was set on the course to become independent almost from the get-go, with elected institutions and schools set up. That imperialistic political culture was an ugly time in US history, inspired by our friends in Europe. Luckily, the US did a bit of good after the war for the Philippines.