22-02-2002 10:46									#1
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This really bothers me. Like, when the refer to something that has actually happened in the past, like an event. For example, in the movie hedwig and the angry inch, the berlin wall is said to have fallen on nov 9th, 1988, when everyone clearly KNOWS that it happened in 1989, NOT 1988. That was a rather important even, one which would have been incredibly easy to look up and verify, one which was somewhat important to the plotline of the movie, and yet, there it is, completely incorrectly.

What are some other things like this that you've noticed in movies?

	22-02-2002 10:47									#2
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I remember watching Star Trek and thinking. This is baloney. We didn't have ww3 in the 1990's. What the hell?

	22-02-2002 10:49									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I remember watching Star Trek and thinking. This is baloney. We didn't have ww3 in the 1990's. What the hell?

Record from that era are sketchy at best.

	22-02-2002 10:56									#4
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pocahontas
*sighes*

	22-02-2002 10:57									#5
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Ha-ha-ha
Congratulations connorkimbro
You've start to open your eyes. Majority of Hollywood movies have such bullshit. The twisting of facts is the favorit thing for an american's directors. Look "The Patriot" or any movie about WW2 for example. But the most silly film in my list is "Armaggedon" with Bruce Willis. What a bullshit, I wonder how he accepted this role? Wind on asteroid was realy funny thing.

	22-02-2002 11:04									#6
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Oh, not just started to open my eyes. . .

anyhow there are instances where this doesn't bother me. Armageddon, for example, didn't really bother me. It was enough sci-fi for me to suspend disbelief, even though there are LOTS of unbelievable, anti-factual things in there. What i mean is more historical facts, like, rather IMPORTANT historical facts, ya know?

If it's ww2, and the actors are using, say, the wrong kind of gun. . .no big deal . . . but if they say that ww2 ended in 1947? that'd be unacceptable.

	22-02-2002 11:15									#7
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On a related note, it's funny how bad Star Trek 3 got it wrong.

Their view of a nuclear aircraft carrier (one I served on even- although it was filmed on a conventional aircraft carrier) was preposterous. but most of that information is inside knowledge. So I don't hold it against them. But it is funny putting a thingamabob outside the secondary shield of the reactor compartment while the reactor is shut down, and getting enough energy to power a warp powered space craft.

But it's a sci-fi movie, so I can't complain.


I'll try to think of some modern day drama or action movies that fit this decription.

	22-02-2002 11:46									#8
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few examples made by jamorobo in "Stop the America bashing" forum:
Quote originaly posted by jamorobo:

" My quibble comes from American media portraying Britian badly especilly in WW2. Yep the big 1 where american takes all the credit

eg.

Saving private Rian = A fairy tale war where britian never existed and was never on the beaches. It portrays the americans valiently crusading on the beaches getting slaughted against overwelming enemys. where the truth was the omaha beach was so hard to takes as the US did not want to use any help from the british who offered:

armoured amphibious fighting vehicles, flamethrower tanks, flailing tanks ( used to destroy mines ) etc..to help them on the beach.

Not to mention the airstrikes from the american planes which were ment to destroy to fortifications but completly missed!





U-571

Complete load of crap, The Brits got the first Enigma of a Sub 4 months before the US entered the war. The us did get 1 in the end but in 1944.


Now on to the Patriot

The Gibson character was based on a US army genral who " Raped his own slaves, shot Indians for fun and married his own cousin!"

The red coats were shown to round up woman and children in a church and set it on fire. When is actually somthing that the Germans did in WW2.
A historian said " With their own record of killing 12 million American indians and surporting slavery 4 decades after britian abolished it, Americans wish to project their historical guilt on to someone else. "

Further complantes were drawn by south georgia's Black population being shown as either happy loyal slaves or Jovial freemen.

I could go on to say about Braveheart, Titanic but i can't be bothered.


Ps. Independance day- when the plan is formed and they start using morce code to transmit everying, Look where they place the british......... Iraq, 2 english blokes with stupid accents which only royaly have, AND in the middle of Iraq a place not normally acocated with england but to the script writer Iraq and the english are the same thing and are both at the top of the list to ridicule.


As you can see American just in its film industry has made alot of people unhappy. Esp the english by removing them and putting a large "Made in USA" it its place."

Last edited by Serb on 22-02-2002 at 12:41

	22-02-2002 11:56									#9
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I don't agree with Private Ryan. This movie wasn't about the English. If you want a movie about British experiences in Normandy- make one yourself.

The movie was long enough. Why include scenes with the British? That wasn't what the movie was about.

I agree about U-571. Really cheesy.
Same with the Patriot.

But the movies are just giving the public what it wants. People don't go to movies wanted to see good characters rape their slaves. That's not the way the general public works. The general public are morons. And I believe this is true throughout the world. And I'm getting tired of only americans being portrayed this way. There are stupid people throughout the world.

	22-02-2002 12:51									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident But the movies are just giving the public what it wants. People don't go to movies wanted to see good characters rape their slaves. That's not the way the general public works. The general public are morons. And I believe this is true throughout the world. And I'm getting tired of only americans being portrayed this way. There are stupid people throughout the world.

Yeah, there are many stupid people throughout the world. But even this stupid people do not proclaim bustards as heroes. This is what I call a twisting of facts, and this thing is what I'm hate most of all in american's movies. In other words this thing is called- a lies.
I can continue list started by jamorobo, but I'll do not want it, this list is too huge.

	22-02-2002 13:01									#11
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Hollywood movies aren't documentaries. They're there to entertain the target audience, and if that means bending the truth or outright lies they'll do it. It's really common.

It's particularly horrible with the World War histories and Computer movies. Anyone remember the 3D hacking in Hackers?
The entire basis of U-571?

I'm more annoyed at the people whining about the inaccuracies of these movies, because they aren't documentaries, they're pieces to entertain us.

That's why it's "based on a true story", not "true story".

	22-02-2002 13:25									#12
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Asher: I'm talking less about twisting of facts for the sake of plot, and more of just getting a simple fact wrong, just making a mistake. How easy is it to check a date and see that, no, it was 1989 that the berlin wall came down, not 1988?

	22-02-2002 13:27									#13
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I see your point with those. Most bigger budget flicks have people to catch things like that.

	22-02-2002 14:30									#14
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quote: Originally posted by connorkimbro Asher: I'm talking less about twisting of facts for the sake of plot, and more of just getting a simple fact wrong, just making a mistake. How easy is it to check a date and see that, no, it was 1989 that the berlin wall came down, not 1988?

Don’t you realize that is the biggest problem of Hollywood?
They to start the propaganda of their vision of those events, while their do not know nothing about those events. Their was unable to simply check the dates.
And this is not the simply mistake of some one from the scenarists. If whole crew was known about which events they making their movie, someone sure will said about this to director, and erase this mistake. This is the main problem. They do movies, and proclaims that their vision is right, while they do not know nothing about those evnts or even don’t known nothing when it’s happens.

	22-02-2002 14:53									#15
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Letīs face it Hollywood spews out as much propaganda as Nazi-Germany or the Soviets ever did. I donīt see any difference between say "The Patriot" and Leni Riefenstahlīs "Triumf des Willens" (Das dokument vom Reichsparteitag 1934) or Tag der Freiheit - Unsere Wehrmacht (Nürnberg 1935) or Sergei Eisensteins "Oktyabr" (October, 1927) or "Bronenosets Potyomkin" (Battleship Potemkin, 1925)

	22-02-2002 14:56									#16
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I don't see it as propaganda. It's not pushing any sort of government policy in most cases.

Many movies are nationalist though, which really annoys me as a Canadian.

(I just got back from seeing The Majestic )

	22-02-2002 15:21									#17
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Rewriting history or glorification of a way of life and/or military actions is propaganda in my book.

	22-02-2002 15:28									#18
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I'm always annoyed when movies gloss over a character being homosexual or bisexual just to make a story to please the majority.

The guy in 'A Beautiful Mind' was gay.

The guy in 'The English Patient' was gay.

The guy in 'Bletchly Park' was gay.

And then Ed Harris' movie about Pollock glossed over the fact he was also a little gay. (Pollock, not Harris!)

Hey, heoric dead people, you can be a hero as long as we don't portray you as gay.

Alynzia

	22-02-2002 15:39									#19
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I agree, as plain action movies the movies are just about mediocre to good, but as historical dokuments, well, nazis claiming that the holocaust didn't happen should have a field time according to you, in my opinion

	22-02-2002 15:47									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Usually Insane I agree, as plain action movies the movies are just about mediocre to good, but as historical dokuments, well, nazis claiming that the holocaust didn't happen should have a field time according to you, in my opinion

Could you elaborate on this, Iīm not quite sure I understand what you mean.

	22-02-2002 15:52									#21
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glorifiyng rapists(the Patriot), claiming certain feats for Yourself which in reality bolonged to someone else (u571), and saying it is okay, because it isn't (a historical document, but an action movie)

well, If they wish, nazis should just make an action movie about the holocaust not happening, because that's okay, right!

	22-02-2002 15:53									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I don't see it as propaganda. It's not pushing any sort of government policy in most cases. Many movies are nationalist though, which really annoys me as a Canadian. (I just got back from seeing The Majestic )

Then what are you call a propaganda then? And how you call a lies about history events, which is common in Hollywood's movies?

	22-02-2002 15:54									#23
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The main problem I have with historic inaccuracy in hollywood movies is that movies have far more impact on a generation than a 'boring' history book.
When younger people watch Saving Privat Ryan and U-571, they will come to believe that the US of A singlehandedly defeated the forces of evil. It belittles the efforts made by other allies and falsely claim achievements that aren't theirs.

On the other hand I must say that Band of Brothers is the best war epic I've ever seen. Realistic (as far as I can tell) and honest about crimes on both side of the spectrum.

	22-02-2002 16:31									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Usually Insane glorifiyng rapists(the Patriot), claiming certain feats for Yourself which in reality bolonged to someone else (u571), and saying it is okay, because it isn't (a historical document, but an action movie) well, If they wish, nazis should just make an action movie about the holocaust not happening, because that's okay, right!

Err, no. The point I tried to make was that (some) american movies are equally propagandistic as Riefensthals and Eisensteins. I havenīt said that this is a good thing.

	22-02-2002 16:37									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Drekkus On the other hand I must say that Band of Brothers is the best war epic I've ever seen. Realistic (as far as I can tell) and honest about crimes on both side of the spectrum.

Have you seen "Stalingrad" ? Itīs as realistic as a movie will ever get I reckon, almost a documentary.

	22-02-2002 16:51									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Have you seen "Stalingrad" ? Itīs as realistic as a movie will ever get I reckon, almost a documentary.

What kind of Stalingrad are you talkin about? I hope this is not "The enemy at the gates." This movie is bullshit like all others Hollywood movies about Red army in WW2.
I'm absolutly sure that americans can not make right movie about our history, as well I belif that russians can not make movie about americans wild west period.

	22-02-2002 16:52									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Have you seen "Stalingrad" ? Itīs as realistic as a movie will ever get I reckon, almost a documentary.

I did see it, and was a bit disappointed. A positive thing was that German soldiers were shown as more than 2 dimensional caracters, but only the soldiers. The officers still are sadistic perverts. The battlescenes weren't that spectacular. The opening sequence of Enemy at the gates is far more impressing. But still a good movie about one battle were 3 times as many soldiers died than the USA lost in the whole war.

	22-02-2002 16:54									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Drekkus The main problem I have with historic inaccuracy in hollywood movies is that movies have far more impact on a generation than a 'boring' history book. When younger people watch Saving Privat Ryan and U-571, they will come to believe that the US of A singlehandedly defeated the forces of evil. It belittles the efforts made by other allies and falsely claim achievements that aren't theirs.

This is what I've mean. Those films create myths, and next generations of people start to belive in such bullshit. This is what realy drives me mad. A LIES.

	22-02-2002 17:11									#29
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I still laughed my ass off (and actually became enraged) when in some second grade american TV war serial they prortrayed SERBS as the evil guys!!! and made them look something like neadertal people for fook's sake

Anyway the answer is really simple. Don't take american "historical" films seriously. Here few people do (if any). There is a certain kind of filter which I believe is strong and does not let even the slightest form of "messages" pass through. Or at least I hope so.
Besides you can read about the films' inaccuracies everywhere
AND the Greek cinema is starting to flourish again after so many years (and I'm not talking about high-elite Cannes winner hyper - cultural - please kill me I can't take it anymore it's that boring Aggelopoulos films )


BTW Serb do you mind if I ask you something else? (Sorry I very rarely see Russians in the forum and I have a lot to ask ) During the NATO bombardement in Serbia did anything about the formation of the Orthodox Axis (union from Russia down to Greece) was discussed in Russia?
Here it is very marginal but during the bombing of Serbia it took a kind of momentum and then was forgotten again.

	22-02-2002 17:37									#30
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Alright, some of you are obviously missing out on the main prpose of a movie. It's there to entertain. Second, noone forced you to watch them, in fact, I could've told you in advance that "The Patriot" would be extremely untrue (someone using a couple of hatchets back then? setting up multiple guns?) Third, most movies have to have a bad guy, and a good guy. Wanna know why? Most people like everything to neatly fall into their places, that guy is bad, he just killed people for fun, that guy is good, he tried to save those children, you see where I'm going? So, they clearly define who the bad guys and the good guys are, with hardly a plot twist thrown in.

What about the accuracy of "The Hunt For Red October"?
What about the accuracy of "Forrest Gump"?
What about the accuracy of "Animal House"?