02-03-2002 22:50									#1
	Car Bomb in Jerusalem - Tens of casualties Inflate your Upload Space

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	02-03-2002 22:52									#2
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Wait, "casualties" does not mean dead right? Is it also includes injured?

	02-03-2002 22:56									#3
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The explosion is inside an ultra-orthodox neighborhood, with many synagogues nearby. The car exploded just when people were leaving the synagogues after the prayer.

Among the dead, a one year old baby.

	02-03-2002 22:58									#4
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Can we have a dedicated forum for this?

I don't see a point for discussion in these threads and initial information is almost always wrong.

	02-03-2002 23:00									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I don't see a point for discussion in these threads and initial information is almost always wrong.

Hey...
Eli's News Agency makes no mistakes.

	02-03-2002 23:00									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Can we have a dedicated forum for this?

No...

And Eli... most of time, you seem to be talking to yourself... maybe you should go see a good doctor to see if you can solve that problem

	02-03-2002 23:01									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ming And Eli... most of time, you seem to be talking to yourself... maybe you should go see a good doctor to see if you can solve that problem

Well, the first posts in such threads are most of the time made by me, but eventually it develops into a perfectly healthy and pointless ME thread.

	02-03-2002 23:03									#8
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The pals are pretty stupid if they think that'll help.

IDF forces pretty much left Balata camp and were planning to leave Jenin.

Guess what happens now?


7 Kassam Missiles and 7 Bomb suits were found in Balata camp alone.

The results of the Jenin incursion weren't published yet.


Palestinian forces: All stakes are off.

	02-03-2002 23:06									#9
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So is it the common belief in Israel that these Palestinian bombers are sent on their missions by the Palestinian government?

	02-03-2002 23:07									#10
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Crap.

So Eli's news agency is not always right.

It was a suicide bomber, probably dressed as an ultra-orthodox Jew, who exploded near a car.

	02-03-2002 23:09									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So is it the common belief in Israel that these Palestinian bombers are sent on their missions by the Palestinian government?

No.
It's a common belief that the Pal goverment does absolutely nothing(except talking about doing something with the French) to stop such teracts and indirectly encourages such teracts by releasing terrorists and brainwashing the Pals.

	02-03-2002 23:11									#12
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Out of curiousity, how do you think the Palestinian government could stop such acts?

Obviously the bombers are on a suicide mission already...

	02-03-2002 23:14									#13
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Khadaffi, recently ended a speech to the nation, where he said he would not recognize an independent Palestinian state.

He said that there has to be a united state Sarastin (iirc) that will be both Israeli and Palestinian.

[according to channel 2 news]


About the terract:

It was probably a terrorist with a bomb suit, and not a car bomb as suspected before.

It would be practically impossible to put a car in the middle of that neighbourhood, as it was closed until the exit of Sabbath, which wouldn't have given enough time. Plus it's less accurate.



More news:

The arab israeli city Taibe was under closure for a long time, after intelligence suggested two terrorists had infiltrated it. The closure has now been lifted, and it's unclear whether the threat is off.

	02-03-2002 23:14									#14
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They have good intel on who the leaders are, where they are, their recruiting and indoctrination activities, etc.

Same thing with who has access to heavy weapons, explosives, etc.

It's a question of how much or little control does the government really have, and how much fence-riding do they think they can get away with?

	02-03-2002 23:15									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Out of curiousity, how do you think the Palestinian government could stop such acts? Obviously the bombers are on a suicide mission already...

Well, Arafat had proven numerous times in the past that even if he's stuck in Ramallah and Israel blockades all Pal cities he can reduce the fire from 30-40 teracts per day to less than 2.

Now, imagine what could he do in the beginning of the Intifada when his police had the freedom of movement, if he had only wanted to stop the violence.

	02-03-2002 23:23									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Well, Arafat had proven numerous times in the past that even if he's stuck in Ramallah and Israel blockades all Pal cities he can reduce the fire from 30-40 teracts per day to less than 2.

For the sake of arguement, let's say that Arafat does that for a solid week and then offers to restart negotiations with Sharon based on the Saudi initiative. Would Sharon accept or would stick to his gun and demand absolute quiet for one week?

	02-03-2002 23:26									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Out of curiousity, how do you think the Palestinian government could stop such acts? Obviously the bombers are on a suicide mission already...

They could have NOT release hundreds of terrorists in the fall of 2000.

They could have NOT put official commercials calling palestinians and palestinian children to go and "die for palestine".

The could have NOT create and support day camps for children in which they are marched around in uniform and taught how to make bombs and fire weapons.

They could have NOT show support for Hamas and Islamic Jihad and show them as heroes on TV or call them heroes.

They could have NOT allow palestinian policemen to shoot at Israeli civilians.

They could have NOT order weapons to the area and then give them out to terrorists.
-> The bomb that ripped through the Merkava tank was mostly C4, which was also found on the Karin-A. It is suspected that Israel miss some 4 smaller supply ships.
So much for the PA not involving in terror. -> They order the materials, and give them to terrorists.

	02-03-2002 23:28									#18
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc For the sake of arguement, let's say that Arafat does that for a solid week and then offers to restart negotiations with Sharon based on the Saudi initiative. Would Sharon accept or would stick to his gun and demand absolute quiet for one week?

We have the Mitchell and the Tennet plans that talk about periods of a month or so. Israel agreed to both of them.

After this period, as agreed, negotiations will be renewed. Though nothing will come out of them anyway. Arafat will not agree to anything less that the Saudi Plan. Israel, with Sharon or without him, will not give even a singe centimeter of Jerusalem in the next decade.

	02-03-2002 23:35									#19
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc For the sake of arguement, let's say that Arafat does that for a solid week and then offers to restart negotiations with Sharon based on the Saudi initiative. Would Sharon accept or would stick to his gun and demand absolute quiet for one week?

Sharon already accepted this when he put similar terms for truces or meetings between Peres and Abu Ala.

The problem is, that even if there's a week of relative quiet, there's either a terract on the 7th day, or intelligence showing a terract will come on a 9th day and the PA isn't stopping them.

quote: It's a question of how much or little control does the government really have

Right now?

Less than before. Pretty much less. They wouldn't be able to stop all terracts now, as opposed to several months before.

quote: and how much fence-riding do they think they can get away with?

Well, they think that they can get away with doing nothing.
And that's the fault of the damn EU which are happy when Arafat lies to them.

How about if Sharon says "I want peace" every week and deny his ability to control IDF?

Maybe then the EU will support him too

	02-03-2002 23:37									#20
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5 dead
39 injured

	02-03-2002 23:38									#21
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6

	02-03-2002 23:39									#22
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For the life of me I can't understand how you can post this "newscast" when you nnot a single time posted a reference to the palistinian civilians killed in the late Israelli military actions.

How credible do you think this makes your posts or your position regarding the Israel-Palentinians Crisis?

I'm sorry about the deaths.
All this tragedy is really sad.

I only wish to point, however, that the palestinian civilian's deaths are just as sad.

And please, don't say those deaths didn't happened.
You don't get a negative reaction from EU, UN and (especially) US out of nothing!

	02-03-2002 23:42									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Ecowiz Returns For the life of me I can't understand how you can post this "newscast" when you nnot a single time posted a reference to the palistinian civilians killed in the late Israelli military actions.

Until now, there were no cases of large number of Pal deaths in one incident. And, well, it's the number of casualties that decides if the teract is worth a new thread or a mere post in the current ME discussion.

quote: And please, don't say those deaths didn't happened. You don't get a negative reaction from EU, UN and (especially) US out of nothing!

	02-03-2002 23:45									#24
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So it's just a question of numbers...

If the number of Israelli dead in every single incident was to be less than that of the Palestinians it would be allright, then?



Too bad we don't see a Palestinian posting in Apolyton...

I wonder why...

	02-03-2002 23:48									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Ecowiz Returns Too bad we don't see a Palestinian posting in Apolyton... I wonder why...

They don't like Civ games. That could explain why they've been doing so baddly in this conflict. They must have been playing too many FPS games.

	02-03-2002 23:48									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Ecowiz Returns So it's just a question of numbers... If the number of Israelli dead in every single incident was to be less than that of the Palestinians it would be allright, then?

I dont really understand what you're trying to say.

quote: Too bad we don't see a Palestinian posting in Apolyton... I wonder why...

Probably because the EU money that goes for such purposes finds it's way to Arafat's bank accounts.

	02-03-2002 23:48									#27
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Oh God. They MUST retaliate. Kill several dozen Palestenian terrorists, and it will be OK. And keep bombing them bastards, so they don't show anywhere near Jerusalem. Declare Arafat a criminal.

Bush, support Israel!

	02-03-2002 23:56									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ecowiz Returns For the life of me I can't understand how you can post this "newscast" when you nnot a single time posted a reference to the palistinian civilians killed in the late Israelli military actions.

You really should read previous threads.

In the Saudi Peace Plan thread we have several posts about the casualties of those actions.

This thread was started by a new event, and feeling that it's time to start a new thread since the old one was getting long.

quote: How credible do you think this makes your posts or your position regarding the Israel-Palentinians Crisis?

I tihnk I'm very credible since I always post news about both sides.

quote: I'm sorry about the deaths. All this tragedy is really sad.

I agree.

quote: I only wish to point, however, that the palestinian civilian's deaths are just as sad.

I agree as well.

The total number to this day is 30 dead, however most are combatants.

I've heard only aobut 3 non-combatants dead, but this could be our media's fault.

quote: And please, don't say those deaths didn't happened. You don't get a negative reaction from EU, UN and (especially) US out of nothing!

Civilian deaths happen.

We're sorry for that. We try to avoid it.

	02-03-2002 23:57									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Oh God. They MUST retaliate. Kill several dozen Palestenian terrorists, and it will be OK. And keep bombing them bastards, so they don't show anywhere near Jerusalem. Declare Arafat a criminal. Bush, support Israel!

Isn't being Cynical fun?

We already killed some 27 palestinian terrorists, so it's possible we won't retaliate heavily this time.

	03-03-2002 00:00									#30
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quote: If the number of Israelli dead in every single incident was to be less than that of the Palestinians it would be allright, then?

No no no. You misunderstood him. You're taking this out of context.

He wasn't talking about "what's alright".

He simply described why he thought this was worth a new thread.

He certainly did post about palestinian casualties in the Israeli actions.