03-03-2002 00:34									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by laurentius we are talking about israelian soldiers death versus paletinian civilian deaths? well soldiers are payed for fighting They know and take the risk

Israel targets palestinian combatants and terrorists.
Palestinians target civilians.

That's the difference.

	03-03-2002 00:36									#62
	Increase Your PM Length

I think we should compose a newbie guide for these threads.

I'm tired of answering again and again to holocaust comparisons, the David vs Goliath thingie that everyone feel so smart and deeply informed when saying etc.

	03-03-2002 00:37									#63
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Look Sirotnikov, this week I heard about 18? palestinian getting killed in Israeli raids. most of them civilians. One israeli soldier killed. Soldiers are trained to face possible violent death. Civilians are not. And what comes to the paletians combatants...wouldnt you defend your own home and people?

Anyway ok say palestinians are terrorizing israeli civilians. Of course that is unexeptable, but your goverment is no better. It has killed even more paletinians than these so called terrorists. And still you dont consider your goverments actions terror agains paletinians?

	03-03-2002 00:37									#64
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by laurentius Siro: Your goverments policies show that you dont value the life of a palestinian as much as your own.

You may be right.

quote: And thats why you are a disgrace to us

Oh, come on! Here's the old trick of singling out Israel again. According to your own precious principle, Arabs should be a disgrace to you as well. Or is it your opinion that Arabs value a Jew's life as highly as an Arab's? Dream on, then.

	03-03-2002 00:38									#65
	Remove this text

I think we should compose Siro- and Eli-bots that respond automatically to any criticism of Israel.

	03-03-2002 00:39									#66
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by laurentius A rich hi-tech army of israel against stone-throwing teenagers and desperate men of principal?(ok not quite) A true fight od David and Goliath...of course we all know who won

Israel targets gunmen who hide behind stone-throwing teenagers.

Plus, it's been a while since a stone-throwing teenager was killed.


How can you call a person who targets civilians and children a man of principal?

quote: Yeah right. 7 year old terrorists

While I admit we kill 7 y/o kids, we do not target them.

However terrorists who go and stand in a disco line do target kids.

But you seem to think they are men of principles.

Your double standard makes me sick.

	03-03-2002 00:41									#67
	Increase Your PM Length

Look siro, I dont really care who targets who. You kill civilians just as well as palestinians do.

	03-03-2002 00:41									#68
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by laurentius Pathetic excuse to isrealian lebensraum....

Israel only conqueres land to defend itself and to give it away in exchange for peace.

Sinai, which is several times larger than Israel was given away to egypt when they agreed to peace.

The territories were about to be given away to the PA in Camp David in 2000.


My my, what short memory to you have.

	03-03-2002 00:43									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by laurentius Look siro, I dont really care who targets who. You kill civilians just as well as palestinians do.

Then you're an idiot.

I'm sorry but are you acctually suggesting that muder one is the same as accidental killing?

	03-03-2002 00:43									#70
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Dicsussing the issues is fine... Being emotional is understandable... Disagreeing is healthy...
but let's stop with the personal issults.

NOW!

	03-03-2002 00:49									#71
	Remove this text

So my opinions are so wrong and the only real and truthfull information is provided by Israeli Goverment and Isreali media. Say it's only a misunderstanding and we have been subject of palestinian/communist propaganda. When is this violence going to stop?

Huh? Tell me that my israelian friend, it's not just your land. When can I come for my holiday or pilgrimage to Israel. You have been given the right to harvest the holy land and clearly You cant execute the mission. What we have seen is a continous oppression and endles row of violence. And with your attitude, I'm afraid it may never be over or at least not in our lifetime

	03-03-2002 00:51									#72
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by laurentius Look Sirotnikov, this week I heard about 18? palestinian getting killed in Israeli raids. most of them civilians.

Who the **** told you that?

Since when are people who hold rifles and shoot them are civilians?

quote: One israeli soldier killed.

Two.

quote: Soldiers are trained to face possible violent death. Civilians are not.

excuse me, but :

Palestinains have dozens of armed brigades who are trained, and most were trained by Israel when we thought we are going to have peace.

We trained them to shoot at terrorists. Now they shoot at us.

Many Hamas and Jihad terrorists were trained in camps in Syria and Saudi Arabia. (those don't cover bombers, as they are expendable to them, and not trained).

Each terrorist is trained both physically and mentally by his group before the terract. Suiciders especially.

There are schools who train 6 y/o kids to throw stones, use rifles and grenades.

quote: And what comes to the paletians combatants...wouldnt you defend your own home and people?

But IDF is not allowed to defend Israelis right?

When palestinians kill Israeli civilians you don't mind.

But when we kill combatants to stop them from aiming at civilians, you do care for them?

Bigot.

quote: Anyway ok say palestinians are terrorizing israeli civilians. Of course that is unexeptable, but your goverment is no better. It has killed even more paletinians than these so called terrorists.

But the intetion matters. Ask any court of law.

quote: And still you dont consider your goverments actions terror agains paletinians?

Intention intention intention.

	03-03-2002 00:52									#73
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by laurentius So my opinions are so wrong and the only real and truthfull information is provided by Israeli Goverment and Isreali media. Say it's only a misunderstanding and we have been subject of palestinian/communist propaganda. When is this violence going to stop? Huh? Tell me that my israelian friend, it's not just your land. When can I come for my holiday or pilgrimage to Israel. You have been given the right to harvest the holy land and clearly You cant execute the mission. What we have seen is a continous oppression and endles row of violence. And with your attitude, I'm afraid it may never be over or at least not in our lifetime

We need a newbie guide. ASAP.

Siro, stop minimizing the ICQ window, turn on the speakers and answer already!

	03-03-2002 00:54									#74
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Eli: exactly who is the newbie here and what do you mena by that guide? A list of your pervert opinions in one sheet, end of discussion? You are free to make youre own list anytime you please. I dont need any of your newbie guides, and no one else does either

	03-03-2002 00:54									#75
	Suffering from ads?

Joke:
-------
The Fatah claimed responsibility, the PA condemned the teracts.

	03-03-2002 00:56									#76
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I remember being in MarkG's mailing list in the year 1998-99?

	03-03-2002 00:57									#77
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by laurentius I remember being in MarkG's mailing list in the year 1999?

Compared to some of us... you are all newbies

	03-03-2002 00:58									#78
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by laurentius So my opinions are so wrong and the only real and truthfull information is provided by Israeli Goverment and Isreali media. Say it's only a misunderstanding and we have been subject of palestinian/communist propaganda. When is this violence going to stop?

1. All information which I present I have seen proof of or I have seriousl reason to believe.

I get to see more videos, coverages, transcripts and so on than you.

While I admit the Israeli TV covers the Israeli side better, I have yet to find any proof of not-truthfull information being supplied to me by it.

And unlike palestinian newspapers, our newspapers are not regulated by the governemnt.

quote: Huh? Tell me that my israelian friend, it's not just your land. When can I come for my holiday or pilgrimage to Israel. You have been given the right to harvest the holy land and clearly You cant execute the mission. What we have seen is a continous oppression and endles row of violence. And with your attitude, I'm afraid it may never be over or at least not in our lifetime

You're talking nonsense.

No where did I, or any Israeli on apolyton for that matter (iirc) resisted to the idea of a palestinain state or sharing it with the palestinians.

Israel and Israelis do not wish to own that land, or to enslave palestinians or what not. It's all claims which are fun to make on CNN, but it's simply not true.

The reason Israel has conquered those lands is exactly because prior to 67 they were used as a haven for terrorists against Israel.
They used to fire at Israeli civilians using machine guns and rifles and grenades and what not.

	03-03-2002 01:00									#79
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And what did the jew-militias do to the palestinians 1946-48?

	03-03-2002 01:01									#80
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by laurentius Eli: exactly who is the newbie here and what do you mena by that guide? A list of your pervert opinions in one sheet, end of discussion? You are free to make youre own list anytime you please. I dont need any of your newbie guides, and no one else does either

ME discussions are constantly held here for long long long time. Trust me, we're far after the stage of the basic "Israel kills civilians"/"the Jews are modern day Nazis"/"David vs Goliath" stuff. I'm sure that everyone here realized long time ago that the situation is not that simple and cannot be summed up in one sentence by some bored demagog(sp?).

Once in a while a new (uninformed) poster comes, like yourself now, and yet again starts with all this simplistic talking, and we all repeat the very same arguments all over again.

Btw, until now you failed to respond in a normal way to any of Siro's points.

	03-03-2002 01:01									#81
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by laurentius Eli: exactly who is the newbie here and what do you mena by that guide? A list of your pervert opinions in one sheet, end of discussion? You are free to make youre own list anytime you please. I dont need any of your newbie guides, and no one else does either

You are a newbie to ME discussions.

Your base knowledge is partially what you see on CNN and on your TV.

You know alot of half-truths and assumptions, and use them to judge the Israelis.

What you're saying is that you prefer to base your opinions on your assumptions, not on facts.

	03-03-2002 01:03									#82
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by laurentius And what did the jew-militias do to the palestinians 1946-48?

What did the palestinian mobs and terror groups do to the jews in 1929 - 1948?
They slaughtered jews and destroyed their property.

Jewish militias resisted.

	03-03-2002 01:05									#83
	Put an end to popups!

quote: I remember being in MarkG's mailing list in the year 1998-99?

1. he means you're a newbie to the ME threads.
2. then why does your registration date show 2001 ?

quote: And what did the jew-militias do to the palestinians 1946-48?

and what did the arabs ( not palestinians yet ) do to the jews from 1890 ? and really massively since 1921 to 1948 ?

It seems that we cannot fight back these days , heh ?

	03-03-2002 01:07									#84
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I was going to make a witty comment/question on the possibility that Europe's anti-Israel stems from anti-semitism, but I won't. I will ask how you can cheer for a nation which glorifies suicide bombers and sings songs about the slaughter of anyone who's not a muslim.

As opposed to say, western society.

	03-03-2002 01:07									#85
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov What did the isrealian army and terror groups do to the palestinians in 1949 - ? They slaughtered palestians and destroyed their property. Palestinian militias resisted.

	03-03-2002 01:10									#86
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Dal, why aren't you on ICQ?


Laurentius, while Israelis may be guilty of recklessness (which I don't agree with), the Palestinians are guilty of terror.

You should judge one according to his intentions, not the results.

You mean that if I shoot and accidentally kill you
And You shoot at me on purpose and kill me

I'm as guilty as you are? NO!

	03-03-2002 01:12									#87
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti 1. he means you're a newbie to the ME threads. 2. then why does your registration date show 2001 ?

1. If you think that shoot my arguments down.
2. I was "out of town" for few years. Anyway used to come to markos' site get scenarios and info for civ2. My memory is not so good but, I remember apolyton when it was really small.

	03-03-2002 01:16									#88
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by laurentius

Gee. what a witty comeback.


Fine then.

You prove you don't want a serious discussion.

When ever you made a claim I replied with facts.
You ignored them, and made other claims.
I replied too.
You were left with no answer so you post smilies.

This simply showes that you can't really support your claims because they are based on lack of information. You only know the CNN version of things.

You are simply interested in venting off your own steams about Israel. Fine then. Mentally masturbate as much as you want.

Furthermore, you're an evil person since you are happy when innocent civilians get killed.

I'm not. I didn't even rejoice when we managed to hit terrorist-master minds such as Abu Ali Mustafa and friends.

So you sir, are a bigot and an evil man, from where I stand.

	03-03-2002 01:18									#89
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Ming Dicsussing the issues is fine... Being emotional is understandable... Disagreeing is healthy... but let's stop with the personal issults. NOW!

What part of this are you not understanding!

	03-03-2002 01:18									#90
	Full PM-box? Change here!

laurentius :

Siro : I am browsing mostly the fan-sites of Empire Earth. sorry.

I only sneak peeks into apolyton.