04-03-2002 22:03									#1
	Cradle 1.3 Support Apolyton

Here is the link for the CRADLE 1.2 Thread...

Locutus, please top this thread and drop CRADLE 1.2.

CRADLE 1.3 AND VICTORY FILES ARE AVAILABLE

Please be aware that there are some file overwrites in this current Update that will affect the 12/19 and BETA 1.3 Update files that were previously posted, so complete any games before unzipping the update into your setup. (including succession games).

Please also report any download problems or any file crashes as they relate to the Victory Update - I currently am without a computer at home, but I can fix/post files from work.

If you had downloaded the earlier version of the Victory options last week, I would suggest redownloading the file, as there was an incorrectly linked file in the 'Birth of an Empire' setup - the update also addresses the other issue that Ben mentioned.

Below is the OFFICIAL readme file for the newly created Cradle Victory options. Each option is part of a separate Modswapper setup.

--------------------------------------------
CRADLE - Birth of an Empire (600 Turns)
You must have the following to succeed
Appian Way Wonder (enable advance Bureaucracy)
20 Theatres (enable advance Drama)
20 Arenas (enable advance Civic Engineering)
20 Courthouses (enable advance Jurisprudence)
20 Forums (enable advance Ethics)
60% Coverage of the world with Obelisk Tile Improvement (enable advance Civic Engineering)

Maintain your Empire for 30 turns after all elements have been completed.

In addition, the Coliseum Wonder has been changed to give a (+1) Empire Happiness, instead of a free Arena for every city.


CRADLE - Global Empire (800 Turns)
You must have the following to succeed
Voyage of Columbus Wonder (enable advance Nationalism)
30 Governorships (enable advance Nationalism)
30 Manufactories (enable advance Nationalism)
70% Coverage of the world with Colony Tile Improvement (enable advance Nationalism)

Maintain your Empire for 40 turns after all elements have been completed.


CRADLE - SETI Colony (1000 Turns)
You must have the following to succeed
Icarus Project Wonder (enable advance Computer)
20 Command Centers (enable advance Computer)
40 Think Tanks (enable advance Computer)
70% Coverage of the world with Satellite Relay Stations Tile Improvement (enable advance Computer)

Have everything in place - it will take 75 turns to fly to Alpha Centauri after all elements have been completed.
--------------------------------------------

The options have not been tried, but are set up similarly to the Science Victory options in the default game - using that setup as the working base for the files. Having never tried the Science Victory option in the game - and hearing that it was rather easy, I tried to make it harder by increasing all requirements. For those who have done the Science Victory, you may want to tweak the various CRA_endgameobjects.txt files to make it harder or easier - plus make adjustments in the ending year of the game in the various CRA_Const.txt. file.

OTHER UPDATES INCLUDED IN THIS FILE...

- GOVERNMENT
1a. Production Bonus for Monarchy to better balance it against Theocracy. Increased Monarchy's city cap to 35, reduced Theocracy's cap to 30.
1b. Increased Democracy Pollution modifier to 1.1 from 0.8.
1c. Increased Communisn Science from 1.75 to 1.9.

- UNITS
2a. Cost of Slavers reduced to 400 from 500
2b. Cost of Abolitionist reduced to 500 from 900
2c. Cost of Slavermaster increased to 700 from 600

- Const.txt
3a. Attempt to make the Medieval/Modern timeline to better reflect the techs as they are researched

- GREAT LIBRARY/info_str.txt
4a. Reflects above info

- DISASTERS
5a. Reduced Plaque effects from 33% to 20% population destroyed.
5b. Increased the effectiveness of Apothecaries to stop Plagues from (+10%) to (+20%)

The files are located at the Land of Hexagonia

Last edited by hexagonian on 05-03-2002 at 01:55

	04-03-2002 22:30									#2
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Great stuff

I was planning to start a new game, and this update will do the trick. . .

Keep up the great work. . .

	05-03-2002 23:20									#3
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Hey Great!
I'll just have to keep it away from the succession game files!(chaos looms ).
And by the way nice new Avartar(both of you) - and keep up the goodwork on this mod.

	07-03-2002 19:54									#4
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In the Cradle 1.2 thread, Hermann the Lombard notified me about some incorrect linkup issues in the Great Library that needed to be fixed. These will not affect game stability - however, it is always nice to have the correct info at hand

Here is the link to read about and download the fixed files

Last edited by hexagonian on 07-03-2002 at 21:30

	07-03-2002 21:57									#5
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Hey Great! And by the way nice new Avartar(both of you) - and keep up the goodwork on this mod.

child of Thor:

	07-03-2002 22:00									#6
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian In the Cradle 1.2 thread, Hermann the Lombard notified me about some incorrect linkup issues in the Great Library that needed to be fixed. These will not affect game stability - however, it is always nice to have the correct info at hand Here is the link to read about and download the fixed files

hexagonian: Many thanks for the update and for the new victory conditions! You have greatly added to the choices and replayability of this excellent game.

	08-03-2002 09:34									#7
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Sorry, I'm confused. I think I got the 1.3 beta from before Xmas. Which files should I download to update from that?

	08-03-2002 19:00									#8
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Rusty,

I'm assuming that you have already downloaded the 12_19 update (this is the last version of 1.2 and does not contain any 1.3 files). The latest update at my site (Victory) will have all the files you need for the most current setup.

However, if you have not downloaded 12_19, you will need that zipped file also with the 'Victory' update.

	09-03-2002 02:49									#9
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Hex...

For those new to Cradle who want to get to the position of having 1.3 installed but playing 1.2, would the sequence be:

cradle_allfiles12_20.ZIP

cra_1_3beta.zip

Victory.zip

I think that's how I got here...

-- Hermann

	09-03-2002 04:01									#10
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I agree some sort of check list is needed to keep a track of the Craddle files - i don't think i've found a readme in the 'Victory' files i downloaded yesterday, especially as we've got the succsession games going. Also i'd like to know how to keep my un-'Victory' files seperate from the victory ones when i play the second succsession game?(I've copied the 'ctp2_data' files into another part of my harddrive and i guess i take out the one that the 'Victory' download places and then copy the origonal files back?) This way i can get back to my Craddle1.2 setup?

	09-03-2002 06:13									#11
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Ok, I've followed instructions and it all appears to have installed fine. As regards to the Cradle mods I now have the following choices when I run Modswapper.


Cradle of Civilization 1.2
Cradle Ultra Gigantic Maps
CRADLE Deity Slayer
Cradle Seafearers Version 1.0
CRADLE Preference of Hextapul
CRADLE - More Peaceful AI
CRADLE 1.3 Beta
CRADLE - SETI Colony
CRADLE - Global Empire
CRADLE - Birth of an Empire


Three questions:

1. Where do I start?

2. Are some of these options redundant now? Will they be removed in the future?

3. I also have Med Mod 2.1, Apolyton Pack and World at War. Are there any others mods that anyone might recommend?

	09-03-2002 07:27									#12
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I would recommend starting with either Cradle 1.3 or any of the ones after that. The last three options make for a shorter and more focused game.

All of the ones near the top of the list are earlier versions of the Mod. The creation of new Modswapper options does not get rid of the older versions - though you can manually remove certain files to make your play options list more manageable.

To pare down the list, you can go and locate the various (CRA...)_gamefiles.txt files and delete the gamefiles.txt files that you don't need. Open those file and near the bottom of each file will be the descriptive for that file.

I would recommend deleting the following...

Cradle Seafearers Version 1.0
CRADLE Preference of Hextapul
CRADLE - More Peaceful AI

Read the descriptive for the Apolyton Pack and MedMod in the ctp2 general forum - the thread is topped. World at War is in its early stages, but playtesting will help make it better.

It's how Cradle got to the point it is now.

	09-03-2002 15:48									#13
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This is where my seniority (as a computer user, anyway) kicks in...

To automatically remove obsolete versions of Cradle, download this file, unzip it in your main CtP2 folder and double-click or otherwise start the 'program' cleanup_cradle.bat. To restore the cradle files, simply start restore_cradle.bat. Note for Dave (as well as other modmakers): you can simply open these *.bat files in Notepad or whatever text editor you're using and edit them to remove/restore other modswapper items. Just copy the existing entries and change the file names.

(You can say of Micro$oft what you want but their batch files are great - although Unix has an even better system )

	09-03-2002 16:52									#14
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Thanks Locutus...

On a sidenote, yesterday (Friday 03/08), I made an adjustment in the building.txt and Great Library files. The fix was to take the last six buildings in the list (there are 70 buildings in my list, and since only 64 can be valid within the game, I wanted to remove them from the tech tree so players would not become confused when they get the advance and have the building in the queue but cannot build that building) and gave them my dummy endgame advance. (Something that I should of handled a long time ago...)

The fix is mainly a cosmetic one - but I would recommend that for the sake of consistancy for the sucession gamefiles, that all players in those games redownload my update, especially since none of the official games have started.

I have overwritten the old update with the new one on my website and I have tested all files for game crashes through launching the game and there hasn't been a problem with them.

In the strategy forum, a player reported that changing the maxplayer setting back to 0 ended crash to desktop for him, so we may have to keep that at 0.

Somebody also mentioned a SLIC file fix that would simulate the creation of new civs - that would be a good SLIC file to have...

	09-03-2002 17:11									#15
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Thanks Locutus...

Np. For those of us who still remember the DOS era that was only 5 minutes work

quote: The fix is mainly a cosmetic one - but I would recommend that for the sake of consistancy for the sucession gamefiles, that all players in those games redownload my update, especially since none of the official games have started.

The first succession game has already started, so it's too late for them. I'll advise the second team to do this though, it *is* indeed an important fix, if you ask me. Us vets can handle it but it probably confuses the hell out of less experienced/informed players.

quote: In the strategy forum

What forum is that, exactly? AFAIK we only have a General and a Creation

Can you give a link to the thread in question? I have MaxPlayer at 32 and AFAIK all other team 1 players have that too. Haven't heard of any problems yet.

quote: Somebody also mentioned a SLIC file fix that would simulate the creation of new civs - that would be a good SLIC file to have...

AFAICS such a SLIC fix would only work if MaxPlayers is > 0 (except maybe in scenarios), so that's not gonna help, I think.

	09-03-2002 17:20									#16
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Here is the link

I just noticed that you started your game...You may have to confirm in that current succession game what CRA_building.txt everyone has by checking the date of the file. The Great Library file is also changed, but that should not affect gameplay.

	09-03-2002 17:29									#17
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Here is the link

Hmm, that's odd. I almost always play with maxplayers > 0 and never had any problems. Didn't hear any of the other team 1 players complain either. Either it's a system specific deal (which would be weird but not entirely impossible) or something else was going wrong in stankarp's game...
Edit: unless he was playing Cradle v1.3, which I haven't played yet. But if Cradle v1.3 is the cause of the problem it should be fixable. I'll look into that when I have the time...

quote: I just noticed that you started your game...You may have to confirm in that current succession game what CRA_building.txt everyone has by checking the date of the file. The Great Library file is also changed, but that should not affect gameplay.

I'm assuming everyone is using the exact same configuration as with the test-game which I sent around first; this test round was played before you posted that update so there shouldn't be a problem (if they changed *anything* to their system since the test game, it's their problem to fix it in time...).

However, I myself will be participating in both succession games so I need details. Then I can adapt my ModSwapper settings to be compatible with both games: is CRA_buildings.txt the only file you changed?

	09-03-2002 18:00									#18
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Here is the list of changes from what was originally posted...

If you are using version 1.2 or 1.3, the only files affected are CRA_buildings.txt and CRA_Great Library.txt. The only file that could possibly cause a problem is the CRA_building.txt file. It is entirely possible that everyone could still make the switch to the updated file - I know from playing that I have not had any problem with making numerical changes to files, but I cannot gurantee that statement either, because the change was to the enable advance.

This fix was also made to all of the 'Victory Option' setups, since they have their own building.txt and Great Library.txt files. - No conflict there.

I changed the descriptive in all of the 'Victory Options' gamefile to also indicate the ending year and replaced a Great Library graphic in the 'Birth of an Empire' setup. - No conflict there.

I feel like Firaxis with their first patch...

	09-03-2002 18:24									#19
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thx

	10-03-2002 00:46									#20
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian I feel like Firaxis with their first patch...

That IS funny!

I think using Craddle for the succession games is a great idea and can't wait for game2 to begin.

	10-03-2002 14:24									#21
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I am playing cradle ultra gigantic maps, 15 civs. When I got past turn 300 I started to get crashes when I tried to save some times. I had max player on 20. I reset it to 0 and then started again. Got to turn 300 and its started again

I found auto save does save the game but it does not save it accurately every time. The turns to next advance is often changed and some PW projects are not completed when in fact they were.

	10-03-2002 21:27									#22
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stankarp: I think the max number of civs in a game is 28 or 29. In your game, it looks like you might have exceeded this limit: 15 (civs) plus 20 (maxplayer) equals 35. This might explain your game crashes IMO

	10-03-2002 22:48									#23
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quote: Originally posted by The Rusty Gamer Are there any others mods that anyone might recommend?

Of course GoodMod for MedPack2 and ApolytonPack. GoodMod is mainly designed to add new trade goods to the game. It is a add on mod and improves the ApolytonPack a lot not only concerning goods but also concerning the AI. However if you only want to play Cradle than you don't need it as it is already a part of Cradle. But if you want to play a mod that doesn't change the tech tree than I highly recommend GoodMod for ApolytonPack. For a link to GoodMod just read my signature.

quote: Originally posted by Leonidas stankarp: I think the max number of civs in a game is 28 or 29. In your game, it looks like you might have exceeded this limit: 15 (civs) plus 20 (maxplayer) equals 35.

Should I say that you are wrong Leonidas? Actually maxplayer means what it indicate to mean the maximum number of civs in a game. So if you set maxplayer to 20 than the maximum numbers of players that could appear in your game is 20 unfortunatly there is a problem when you kill player 2 for example and a new civ will become player 2 so I guess that is the problem, because player 2 should be already dead, I had some problems with player1's war over script concerning this civ replacing, I deactivate it and the problem was gone I also had a problem with DiploMod and this issure as I played with enabled debug slic. A slic reload the turn before helped for one turn and than it was clear that it was a slic problem. Maybe you should set maxplayer to 0 if the game starts replacing civs.

-Martin

	11-03-2002 11:15									#24
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"" I am playing cradle ultra gigantic maps, 15 civs. When I got past turn 300 I started to get crashes when I tried to save some times. ""

I too had very similar troubles. I am using cradle ultra gigantic map, 7 civs. I got to about turn 250 AD in my last game and no matter what I did I could not get the game saved. I got very irritated and started a new one. This time I started saving a copy of the game every dozen or so turns in a separate dir and every so often I opened that file in cheat mode to see what the computer was up to. Now in this game the save game crashes started around 600 AD and I may have found what did it. Here is my set up:

NumPlayers=7
Difficulty=3
RiskLevel=1
Pollution=No
ScreenResWidth=1024
ScreenResHeight=768
MaxPlayers=0
MapSize=3
DebugSlic=No

This is just the ones I see most mentioned. If anyone needs more let me know.

The trouble I think starts when I defeated the first empire. If you open the file up in the cheat mode and scroll through the civs, I destroyed the second civ – Japan. The second civ is a duplicate of the first and the last one gets dropped off the list. At this point saving the game is fine. Then later on a new civ pops up – the Greeks. They assume the second spot in the list and now everyone is back on the list. Within a turn I got save game crashes. Not a scientific test but I am now in the same predicament I was in over a month ago. I save the game after every turn once I get past about 30 to 40 cities. I guess I will start another one and see if it does it again.

Great game, If I can get past the save game crashes. I would love to play a game all the way through.

Chuck

	11-03-2002 12:20									#25
	Bigger is not necessarily better... Suffering from ads?

I had read that there were crashes with ultra gigantic maps in general and it might be better to avoid them if you want a game to last all the way to the finish.
Also, while the idea for 15 plus civs may sound good in theory, its alot easier to manage and strategise in a game that has only about 8. Processing is faster too.

	11-03-2002 23:11									#26
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Martin: Mea Culpa

Through all the reading/downloading for CTP2 (to bring myself up to speed), I obviously misinterpreted MaxPlayer. . .

So much to know, so little time. . .

	12-03-2002 21:20									#27
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Currently playing Cradle v1.3 beta with lots of islands/oceans and 10 civs on hard.

After 5,500 years I am second last in the civ standings. . .

I love it!!! I have been using every trick in the book, but it's always a constant struggle for survival. . .

Every city I build, every improvement I make, every tech I steal (out of 4 diplomats lost, I was able to steal only one tech), and every battle I win, feels like I EARNED it. . .

This Mod never gives you anything for free. . .

Nicely done. . .

	12-03-2002 22:09									#28
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I got my first crack at the Cradle mod this weekend as well and must admit I was very impressed as well. We did our usual 2 human vs 6 AI multiplayer, with the AI getting 3 settlers and the humans getting 1 on 'Very Hard' difficulty.

We both got horrible start positions in large swamps and found the game to be hours of struggle. The AI was constantly hitting our towns with stacks 9-12 in size and pillaging every road we used to launch attacks. And their towns were constantly manned with 12 quality units. It took between 18-32 units to take a city in a 2-3 waves of attacking.

However, we did reach a year (600BC or so) where the game would *always* crash on the host to desktop. I tried bringing the savegame up singleplayer and no crashing. Looks like both MedMod II and Cradle 1.3 get to a point multi-player where we just can't go any further...

	13-03-2002 04:07									#29
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Crash Bug Notes.

When CTP 2 first came out it had a save game bug, and from memory, it probably started to happen about the same time (turns wise ) as cradle(300). The official patch 1.1 was primarily designed to fix that. Maybe it would help to look at the patch. It always happened about the time i got gunpowder and cavalry.

In cradle it happens about turn 300 onwards as well. I tried resetting maxplayer to 0 and restarting the game and same thing is happening again at about the same time. I tried changeing the capture city code to have a chance of capturing a tech when I capture a city (as per Martins suggestion) but this did not work as well. Although I restarted the game rather than start a new one.

I will try a new game on extra-large map and see what happens

	13-03-2002 06:16									#30
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In my game, I am on turn 333, and have had no game crashes. I am playing on a huge map. Could the game crashes be related to using ultra large maps? Just guessing here