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Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
Prince
Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
time: 06:18
Thumbs up  Old Post 10-03-2002 05:40
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by Israel Shamir

'On March 3, a Palestinian Rob Roy armed with an old, WWII – vintage carbine, succeeded to lay low the whole troop of heavily armed Jews. One after another, he shot the soldiers, and their officers, and escaped unharmed. In one stroke, he erased the overblown myth of Israeli military valiance. Never again the supporters of Israel will sneer at Arab courage, never again they will tell stories of shoes dropped in Sinai and Six Day War. He repeated the feat of Karameh and returned the honour to Palestinians.

He also provided a healthy alternative to the morbid attraction of suicide bombers, and not too early. For a long time I wanted to persuade my Palestinian brothers and sisters to desist from this madness, but I loathed to be seen as an ideological tool of Zionism. I understand the motives of the shaheeds, I salute their courage, but I deeply regret their deeds. They are counterproductive, inefficient, and blind. I am certain[i] that some suicide cells are thoroughly infiltrated by Israeli counter-intelligence: too often they explode in wrong places, in wrong time, against wrong aims. Their deeds are used by Israeli propaganda to its full value. Their death is a terrible loss for the mankind. They sacrifice themselves as the son of Abraham brought himself to be sacrificed, but God replaced his sacrifice with a ram.

The marksman offered a different route to glory, one that does not lead through the Valley of Death. The full story of the Battle at Haramiyeh Pass should be sung by bards, and taught by guerrilla fighters over the world. One against ten, the Lone Ranger hit the most hated symbol of Jewish rule in Palestine, a checkpost, where bored, overfed, sadistic Israeli soldiers daily humiliated, beat and often murdered local people.

Just a day before the battle, the soldiers committed probably the most revolting and cowardly act of cruelty. A Palestinian woman on her way to give birth came to the checkpost, accompanied by her husband. The soldiers let her through and then opened fire. Her husband was killed; the pregnant woman was wounded and gave birth in the hospital. The soldiers were not reprimanded, but the Army ‘expressed regrets’ to the survivors.

***

The surprise attack on the checkpost dealt a deadly blow to the psychotic Israeli superiority complex. Cowards and sadists are unable to cope with a defeat, they respond by homicidal rage. That is why the Army began an all-out assault on Palestinian towns and villages. As I write, soldiers shoot at ambulances that try to remove wounded. The US jets with Israeli pilots bomb the school for blind in Gaza. Crack troops of Golani division accompanied by tanks storm the Tul Karem refugee camps. They plan to repeat the massacre of Sabra and Shatila, the previous feat of General Sharon. As a manual, they use the Waffen-SS commander’s memoir of reducing the Warsaw ghetto. They are excited by extremely low casualties of Wermacht in 1943, and hope to repeat their feat while crushing the Palestinians[iii].

Sharon surpassed Hitler: the German dictator carefully avoided giving the orders to kill Jews, the Jewish ruler unabashedly called to kill the Goyiim on the TV in prime time. While many Germans were disgusted by the Nazis and crossed the lines, and served in the Allied armies against the Third Reich, the Jews still hesitate to break the bond of false loyalty to their Third Malkuth. Israelis of conscience refuse to participate directly in the ethnic cleansing. It is very good but it is not enough. We should follow the example of Ernst Thaelmann and Joe Slovo, cross the lines, and join the Palestinian fighters on the barricades of Gaza and Tul Karem. In the British newspaper, the Guardian[iv], Jonathan Freedland called the Israeli protesters, ‘heroes’. I reserve this title for the marksman from the Brigands’ Defile.'

Full article:
http://www.left.ru/inter/march/shamir.html

Natan is offline Natan
Prince
New York State
Sep 2000
time: 00:18
  Old Post 10-03-2002 05:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
by Israel Shamir

'On March 3, a Palestinian Rob Roy armed with an old, WWII ? vintage carbine, succeeded to lay low the whole troop of heavily armed Jews.

And three civillians. Blessed be the class struggle, we have defeated the arrogant Jews who thought they could live. Itbakh al Yahud!


quote:

One after another, he shot the soldiers, and their officers, and escaped unharmed. In one stroke, he erased the overblown myth of Israeli military valiance. Never again the supporters of Israel will sneer at Arab courage, never again they will tell stories of shoes dropped in Sinai and Six Day War. He repeated the feat of Karameh and returned the honour to Palestinians.

Blessed be the holy martyrs! The spirit of the Arab Baath Socialist Party lives! birrouh wabiddam nafaadak, ya Saddam!
quote:

He also provided a healthy alternative to the morbid attraction of suicide bombers, and not too early. For a long time I wanted to persuade my Palestinian brothers and sisters to desist from this madness, but I loathed to be seen as an ideological tool of Zionism. I understand the motives of the shaheeds, I salute their courage, but I deeply regret their deeds. They are counterproductive, inefficient, and blind.

Not a word of regret over their innocent victims. Only concern that this former Pravda columnist might be seen as a Zionist.
quote:

I am certain that some suicide cells are thoroughly infiltrated by Israeli counter-intelligence: too often they explode in wrong places, in wrong time, against wrong aims. Their deeds are used by Israeli propaganda to its full value. Their death is a terrible loss for the mankind. They sacrifice themselves as the son of Abraham brought himself to be sacrificed, but God replaced his sacrifice with a ram.

This man is a lunatic.
quote:

The marksman offered a different route to glory, one that does not lead through the Valley of Death. The full story of the Battle at Haramiyeh Pass should be sung by bards, and taught by guerrilla fighters over the world. One against ten, the Lone Ranger hit the most hated symbol of Jewish rule in Palestine, a checkpost, where bored, overfed, sadistic Israeli soldiers daily humiliated, beat and often murdered local people.

Of course, the overfed Israelis.
quote:

Just a day before the battle, the soldiers committed probably the most revolting and cowardly act of cruelty. A Palestinian woman on her way to give birth came to the checkpost, accompanied by her husband. The soldiers let her through and then opened fire. Her husband was killed; the pregnant woman was wounded and gave birth in the hospital. The soldiers were not reprimanded, but the Army ?expressed regrets? to the survivors.

That's more than your brothers and sisters do for the deathes of the their vctims, Ivan.
quote:

Sharon surpassed Hitler: the German dictator carefully avoided giving the orders to kill Jews, the Jewish ruler unabashedly called to kill the Goyiim on the TV in prime time.

Lies always worked in Pravda, so why not try them again? This is just sick.
quote:

While many Germans were disgusted by the Nazis and crossed the lines, and served in the Allied armies against the Third Reich

Baseless, but no doubt appealing to those who like to believe in a Jewish anti-gentile conspiracy.
quote:

the Jews still hesitate to break the bond of false loyalty to their Third Malkuth.

I'm glad that Israel Shamir recognizes that he is no Jew, but he does a disservice to the hundreds of thousands of Meretz voters who made their party the fourth largest in the Knesset, with almost 10% of the seats.


[i] wainha aththawra hatta annasir!

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
Prince
Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
time: 06:18
Post  Old Post 10-03-2002 06:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Natan
And three civillians.


Since when have Israelis (or Americans) a problem with collateral damage?

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
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Aug 2000
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 06:12 Visit Lonestar's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


Since when have Israelis (or Americans) a problem with collateral damage?


We(or the Israelis) are not intentionally aiming to kill innocent civilians.

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
Prince
Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
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Post  Old Post 10-03-2002 06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Lonestar
We(or the Israelis) are not intentionally aiming to kill innocent civilians.


Proove the guy in the story intentionally killed any civilians. He was one against 10, remember? And Israelis 'unintentionally' kill Palestinian civilians every day.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 06:15 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Lonestar


We(or the Israelis) are not intentionally aiming to kill innocent civilians.


Doesn't make much of a difference though. I mean you both fire in populated areas.

Let's see. A allegded pal "terrorist" is driving his car with his wife and two kids. You WILL shoot. The whole family will die.
Yes, you were aiming at the "terrorist".

Not much of a difference as I said.

Natan is offline Natan
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New York State
Sep 2000
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 07:07
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
Doesn't make much of a difference though. I mean you both fire in populated areas.

Israel doesn't send suicide bombers to nightclubs. When Israel rounds up Palestinian men in a refugee camp, they come back alive. When Palestinian gunmen round up the few Israelis who still have enough bravery and trust in the Palestinians to venture in restaurants in PA areas, they end up dead.
quote:

Let's see. A allegded pal "terrorist" is driving his car with his wife and two kids. You WILL shoot. The whole family will die.

Firstly, I won't shoot. Israel will shoot. Secondly, no Israel won't, it's explicityl Israel's policy not to shoot if they know that civillians are in the car. Those poor children died because Israel didn't know they were in the car.

Comrade Tribune: I'd get you the article showing that civillians died too, but it doesn't seem you care either way, so I'm not sure what would be the point.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 07:27 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Natan, is a 30% civilian casualty rate higher than that caused by Israel? (Really a question; I don't know)

To kill 7 soldiers and 3 civilians by himself I'd have to assume that his prime target was the military, unlike indiscriminate suicide bombers.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 07:36 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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BTW, Tribbie: the exuberant air you indulge in when discussing the death of fellow human beings is distressing, to say the least. Get some empathy. Even the soldiers who died deserve your pity and compassion. Most of them were probably still teenagers.

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
Prince
Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
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Post  Old Post 10-03-2002 07:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Natan
Comrade Tribune: I'd get you the article showing that civillians died too, but it doesn't seem you care either way, so I'm not sure what would be the point.


The question is if he killed them intentionally. He was fighting against 10 soldiers. If civilians were hurt (which you didn´t even proove), that may have been caused by stray bullets. That´s what Israeli soldiers always claim when they kill Palestinian women and children, right? And you give the benefit of the doubt to them, right? But not to a Palestinian dog, of course!

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
Prince
Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
time: 06:18
Post  Old Post 10-03-2002 07:40
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Get some empathy. Even the soldiers who died deserve your pity and compassion.


Except if they are Taliban (or other Afghanis fighting against US troops). Where is your empathy then?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 07:51 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Talking to the wrong guy there Tribbie.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 08:04 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Please! Please don't call me a mindless American patriot! The irony might kill me!

I know you're around...

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
Prince
Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
time: 06:18
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Talking to the wrong guy there Tribbie.


I am not sure what you mean here. Do you mean you, personally, didn´t celebrate the death of Taliban soldiers, like so many of your fellow Americans? If so, I still wonder why you don´t say similar things to Shihuangdi and others who do? The fact remains that, to most or all of you, the death of 50 Afghans or Palestinians means much less than the death of one American or Israeli. I don´t agree with that weighting. I deplore the death of a victim of Imperialism much more than the death of a soldier of Imperialism.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 08:13 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Comrade, KH is a canadian. He likes curling and can speak french and there is also a rumour that he gets his electricity from a white bear pedaling a wheel outside his house. No relation with Yankies. He's also a communist to them (lefty)

Natan is offline Natan
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New York State
Sep 2000
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 08:15
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Natan, is a 30% civilian casualty rate higher than that caused by Israel? (Really a question; I don't know)

It all depends on how you define civillian: Some would say lower, some would say higher.
quote:

To kill 7 soldiers and 3 civilians by himself I'd have to assume that his prime target was the military, unlike indiscriminate suicide bombers.


There are two reasons why I think he was targetting civillians: The first is that the Fatah organization endorses attacks on Israeli civillians and carries out quite a lot of them - the bombing of that synagogue last week was done by the Fatha al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades. The second and more tangible one is his method of attack, he used a sniper rifle to pick off Israelis from a distance - firing, according to witnesses, about one shot every forty five seconds.

Israel Shamir doesn't seem to be concerned about the civillians who died in that attack. But much more surprisingly, he doesn't seem to care about any of the Israeli civillians killed in the violence; suicide bombers are, in his view, counterproductive, but not evil.

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
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Vienna, Austria
Nov 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
Comrade, KH is a canadian.


Good for him; this is as close to a really civilized country as you can get on the North American continent.

orange is offline orange
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It doesn't matter what your name is!
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 08:17 Visit orange's homepage!
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He means he feels that way over any deaths, as you should.

Natan is offline Natan
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 08:20
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quote:
Originally posted by orange
He means he feels that way over any deaths, as you should.

You mean he thinks all deathes should be sung of by the bards?

orange is offline orange
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 08:22 Visit orange's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
quote:
Talking to the wrong guy there Tribbie.


I am not sure what you mean here. Do you mean you, personally, didn´t celebrate the death of Taliban soldiers, like so many of your fellow Americans? If so, I still wonder why you don´t say similar things to Shihuangdi and others who do? The fact remains that, to most or all of you, the death of 50 Afghans or Palestinians means much less than the death of one American or Israeli. I don´t agree with that weighting. I deplore the death of a victim of Imperialism much more than the death of a soldier of Imperialism.


I was responding to this post by Comrade Tribune, Nathan.

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
Prince
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quote:
Originally posted by Natan
The second and more tangible one is his method of attack, he used a sniper rifle to pick off Israelis from a distance.


And of course the IDF doesn´t use sniper rifles?

And what method should a Palestinian use to kill Israeli soldiers to get your approval?

quote:

Suicide bombers are, in his view, counterproductive, but not evil.


Saddam Hussein might have a solution to this. If you agree to lift the sanctions on Iraq we might persuade Saddam to deliver tanks, guns and a few helicopters to the Palestinians; so they don´t need to rely on suicide tactics anymore.

See: we can agree on something.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 08:28
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I think he was referring to the fact that sniper rifles are highly accurate weapons that don't result in "collateral damage". It is almost certain that the Palestinian gunmen meant to hit the Israeli civilians, thus showing that he wasn't just out to shoot combatants.

Natan is offline Natan
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 08:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
And of course the IDF doesn´t use sniper rifles?

And what method should a Palestinian use to kill Israeli soldiers to get your approval?

I suggest that you look this thread over again. My point is that the method he used shows that he intentionally chose each of his victims. He wasn't blazing away with a Kalashnikov and accidentally blasting some non-combatants, he was carefully selecting each target and spending a very long time on each one; therefore I think he must have known what he was doing.
quote:

Saddam Hussein might have a solution to this. If you agree to lift the sanctions on Iraq we might persuade Saddam to deliver tanks, guns and a few helicopters to the Palestinians; so they don´t need to rely on suicide tactics anymore.

Then the Palestinians can repeat his heroic Anfal genocide campaign against the Kurds and reenact the glorious slaughter of tens of thousands in 1991. birrouh wabiddam nafeedak ya Saddam. But they aren't forced to rely on suicide tactics, the leaders of Fatah, Hamas, etc. choose to kill civillians because it is more satisfying.

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
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Post  Old Post 10-03-2002 08:32
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quote:
Originally posted by orange
He means he feels that way over any deaths, as you should.


The problem with this viewpoint is I don´t believe anybody who says he holds it -except if he is living in a Buddhist monastery.

Why should the death of a WWII SS soldier make me feel sad? And I don´t hold those who do the dirty work for Bush and Sharon in a higher regard.

Natan is offline Natan
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 08:33
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quote:
Originally posted by orange
I was responding to this post by Comrade Tribune, Nathan.

Oh, my mistake. I apologize.

Natan is offline Natan
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 08:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
Why should the death of a WWII SS soldier make me feel sad? And I don´t hold those who do the dirty work for Bush and Sharon in a higher regard.

I think you had better apologize for that. Firstly, it's absurd and you know it. Secondly, there's at least one poster who is currently serving in the US military who you have just called a Nazi.

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
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quote:
Originally posted by Natan
My point is that the method he used shows that he intentionally chose each of his victims. He wasn't blazing away with a Kalashnikov and accidentally blasting some non-combatants, he was carefully selecting each target and spending a very long time on each one; therefore I think he must have known what he was doing.


First of all, prove he really *did* hit any civilians. Second, in a combat situation, with the odds 10:1 against me, I wouldn´t waste time on civilians, so it´s really unlikely he targeted them on purpose. Much more likely he used them as shields, and they got hit by the panicked Israelis; this I would find believable.

quote:

But they aren't forced to rely on suicide tactics, the leaders of Fatah, Hamas, etc. choose to kill civillians because it is more satisfying.


Don´t be silly; they do what they think is helping their cause, and within their means.

The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
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Aug 1999
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  Old Post 10-03-2002 08:44
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Comrade, why do you always take the side of mass murderers and homocidal maniacs? I know, you'll just say "You're American, so you ARE a mass murderer." I expect that from you, and I could easily refute it. But answer my question.

Lets see:

Saddam
Milosevic
Usama
PLO

Believe me, I think what Israel does is wrong. They are hypocrites in their own right. Yet what the PLO does is intentionally inflict as much damage on the Jewish population as they can.

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
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quote:
Originally posted by Natan
Secondly, there's at least one poster who is currently serving in the US military who you have just called a Nazi.


I called no one a Nazi. I use my words with care. I said I don´t hold those who fight for Sharon and Bush in a higher regard than those who fought for Hitler. This says nothing about their ideology. Though Zionism is certainly similar to Nazism.

Comrade Tribune is offline Comrade Tribune
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Nov 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
Comrade, why do you always take the side of mass murderers and homocidal maniacs?


This is because the Western media make all outspoken opponents of the US (and Israel) into mass murderers and maniacs, regardless if it´s actually true or not. And I tend to side with those opponents, so I appear, in the eyes of the gullible -no offense meant! - to side with mass murderers and maniacs.

 
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