22-03-2002 08:03									#1
	War of Northeern Aggression Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Call it what it is, and has been referred as since it happened - The Civil War.

Parts of one country fighting another country = a civil war.

Why do the revisionists have to mess everything up? Oh, no big bad North... ohhh scary... pffft BS, the Union was within it's rights no matter what you want to say because might=right, if nothing else.

	22-03-2002 08:07									#2
	Suffering from ads?

nah I think they mean that the South seceded so the CSA was an independent nation making the Civil War a war between two seperate nations. War of Northern Aggression might not be the best term, however, considered Confederates launched the first attack at Fort Sumter.


thanks

	22-03-2002 08:12									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I can say I'm smarter than Einstein until I'm blue in the face, doesn't make it true.

	22-03-2002 08:12									#4
	Put an end to popups!

quote: the Union was within it's rights no matter what you want to say because might=right

I guess there's no arguing with that

In other news, it has been determined that the Holocaust was A-OK because Hitler was stronger than the Jews

	22-03-2002 08:12									#5
	Support Apolyton

I'm a Virginian...so I've gone through my romantize the South and Virginia period.

But...the bottom line is: after that war, blacks weren't slaves. Before it they were. The North was right.

	22-03-2002 08:14									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: But...the bottom line is: after that war, blacks weren't slaves. Before it they were. It was a net plus.

Only for the slaves, not for the Southern whites

	22-03-2002 08:14									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

When was the last time you felt oppressed because the Union exercised their power to keep the states from seceding? When was the last time the Union practiced genocide on the South? When was the last time the Jews enslaved an ethnic group?

	22-03-2002 08:15									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's the same principle of might makes right - you can't apply it to certain situations and not others.

	22-03-2002 08:16									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

For a period of 30 years or so, most Southern Whites were better off, also, since the power of the slave holders had been temporarily broken. It wasn't 'till the 1890's that the former masters returned to complete power, again disenfranchising poor whites.

Please stop making the mistake that so many do, of conflating white interests as a whole with the interests of a small group of rich white men.

	22-03-2002 08:19									#10
	Put an end to popups!

quote: For a period of 30 years or so, most Southern Whites were better off, also, since the power of the slave holders had been temporarily broken. It wasn't 'till the 1890's that the former masters returned to complete power, again disenfranchising poor whites. Please stop making the mistake that so many do, of conflating white interests as a whole with the interests of a small group of rich white men.

Oh I get it - in chegitz-land, better off means losing States Rights and self-rule

	22-03-2002 08:19									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Who exactly is revising the term? First I've heard of it...

	22-03-2002 08:19									#12
	Got spare money?

Alright then, ignore might makes right. In the eyes of the Union the South did not secede, it was only an insurrection.

Hmmm, maybe we should call it "The War of Southern Folly"?

	22-03-2002 08:20									#13
	Support Apolyton

Are you suggesting that abolishing slavery was wrong because it disenfranchised a few white farmers, David?

	22-03-2002 08:21									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: In the eyes of the Union the South did not secede, it was only an insurrection.

And because the Union won, might makes right....Stalin though that starving Ukrainians was OK, and because he won, it IS OK. Right?

	22-03-2002 08:23									#15
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

"Who is using it"

About every Southern Revisionist, who can't see the ttruth in front of them.

Floyd: What good are State's rights without a decent job? Second, what specific state rights disappeared after it was over? Would you give up your possesions, in order that you could enjoy State rights?

BTW, AFAIK Southerners can still vote, just tell me when I'm wrong about that. In fact, there has been more than one southerner in the White House since then.

	22-03-2002 08:23									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Are you suggesting that abolishing slavery was wrong because it disenfranchised a few white farmers, David?

No, I'm suggesting abolishing slavery was wrong because:
-The South didn't want to
-The sovereign CSA didn't want to
-The 13th Amendment was forced down the throats of Southerners, who didn't get a valid, uncoerced vote on it
-The US murdered hundreds of thousands of CSA soldiers in order to do it

	22-03-2002 08:25									#17
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Floyd: What good are State's rights without a decent job? Second, what specific state rights disappeared after it was over? Would you give up your possesions, in order that you could enjoy State rights?

The 13th-15th Amendments took away most States rights, and more can be taken away at the federal government's whim.

	22-03-2002 08:25									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Oh I get it - in chegitz-land, better off means losing States Rights and self-rule

Many poor whites were excluded from the political process after the Civil War, DF.

	22-03-2002 08:26									#19
	Get a bigger avatar today!

That's like saying abolishing the Holocaust was wrong because the German government didn't want it.

	22-03-2002 08:26									#20
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* Who exactly is revising the term? First I've heard of it...

Yeah, ditto that.

I sounds so politcally correct as well. Enough to make me puke. We no longer have wars, just acts of aggression. What's this world coming to when you can't even have a good old war anymore?

Acts of Aggression and Peace
The Gulf Act of Aggression
World Act of Aggression One and Two

Bah!

	22-03-2002 08:26									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Many poor whites were excluded from the political process after the Civil War, DF.

I don't see how that relates, except to illustrate my point that whites were not better off.

	22-03-2002 08:28									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: That's like saying abolishing the Holocaust was wrong because the German government didn't want it.

Well I'm not sure Britain and France had the moral authority to declare war on Germany, nor do I think the US had the moral authority to provoke Germany.

	22-03-2002 08:28									#23
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

dp...

	22-03-2002 08:28									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Oh I get it - in chegitz-land, better off means losing States Rights and self-rule.

States rights is, and has always been, anti-democratic and means of local elites screwing their local populations. State's rights is never defended except when the states are screwing their own people over. When the state does something in favor of its own people, no one complains when the Fed steps in and overturns it (as in the Medical Marijuana laws and Doctor Assisted Suicide law in Oregon).

And, dumb-sh*t, you should remember that before the War, poor whites in the South couldn't vote. Under the Reconstruction governments, they could . . . until Reconstruction was ended, and the grandfather clauses were enacted. If your grandfather couldn't vote, neither could you, and since most whites' grandfathers couldn't vote . . .

You know, it's okay to been a fanatic as long as you have your facts straight. Stop listening the neo-Confederates and the Klan, Floyd.

	22-03-2002 08:28									#25
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

13th Amendment

quote: Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

It makes slavery illegal. What a terrible piece of legislation!

	22-03-2002 08:28									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Uhhh, it's called foreign policy, the Union decided that the South wasn't one, so it was domestic policy, which meant the South had as much rights as a few conspirators.

	22-03-2002 08:29									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by David Floyd The 13th-15th Amendments took away most States rights, and more can be taken away at the federal government's whim.

Yeah, and they gave rights to the American people. What horrible, horrible, Amendments.

David, your hood is showing.

	22-03-2002 08:29									#28
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I don't see how that relates, except to illustrate my point that whites were not better off.

The elites were better off after Reconstruction ended.

I don't see how any self-respecting Libertarian can support the CSA to begin with anyway. It was hardly an institution committed to upholding libertarian ideals, regardless of the actions of the Union.

	22-03-2002 08:32									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Well I'm not sure Britain and France had the moral authority to declare war on Germany, nor do I think the US had the moral authority to provoke Germany.

Um, Britain and France declared war on Germany because Hitler invaded Belgium (and subsequently France, which was the obvious conclusion once they'd reached Belgium). Did Germany have the moral authority to invade Belgium? I think Britain and France had every right to declare war on Germany, especially seeing as France was in the process of being invaded.

You're digging yourself a fair size hole here, David. Be careful you don't fall into it.

	22-03-2002 08:32									#30
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: States rights is, and has always been, anti-democratic and means of local elites screwing their local populations.

Whoever said I supported democracy?

quote: And, dumb-sh*t, you should remember that before the War, poor whites in the South couldn't vote. Under the Reconstruction governments, they could . . .

As I recall States had the right to set voting requirements. I see no problem there, the US Constitution requires State governments to be republican, not democratic.

Iain,

quote: It makes slavery illegal. What a terrible piece of legislation!

The process was terrible and the ends never justify the means.

Mac,

quote: Uhhh, it's called foreign policy, the Union decided that the South wasn't one, so it was domestic policy, which meant the South had as much rights as a few conspirators.

So again, might makes right, eh?