24-03-2002 07:44									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker What was all that '54-40 or fight' nonsense your tribe was spewing around the time of the gold rush days about then? What was all the diplomacy about trying to fix where the border was? When the Brits, 'representing' us, sold us out, what big chunk of territory did you get in order to get easier Klondike access?

Oregon Territory: BC, Washington, Orgeon, and Idaho were all part of Oregon Territory and we both claimed it. We split it down the middle.

We didn't need access to the Klondike until the 1890s. We bought Alaska in 1867.

	24-03-2002 07:44									#62
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I don't see why we wouldn't accept Alberta, because it has oil and we like oil in this country.

Right now there is relative prosperity in Canada, and people normally do not want change when there are good times. If there were a very large recession throughout Canada, it would lead to possibility of Radical action.

	24-03-2002 07:45									#63
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse That was on the Princess Charlotte(?) islands, but there was also some dispute wrt what Russia actually had claim to. It had to with the extent of their colonies in the Northwest. Almost went to war over the islands thing.

When was that?

	24-03-2002 07:46									#64
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Canadians are a people who are unhappy where they are, but who are damn sure things would be worse anyplace else.

	24-03-2002 07:47									#65
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"We didn't need access to the Klondike until the 1890s"

Oddly enough, the time of the dispute in question....maybe they don't talk too much about this one in American history, doesn't put you in a very good light.

	24-03-2002 07:48									#66
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse quote: How much vote tampering are you talking about ? I've heard/read about the claims, and i even seem to remember that there was proof to that effect but i have no numbers. Care to share There were claims that in 4 districts something like 20 000 "No" ballots were rejected without cause. A few electoral officers were fired. It didn't look like it was a conspiracy from the top down, just a few overzealous péquistes...

It's all a big misunderstanding : all the people who had their votes rejected usually spend the winter in Florida. The voting practices aren't as strict down there it seems...

	24-03-2002 07:48									#67
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara When was that?

Can't remember latter part of 19th century. I think the islands were jointly administered. A British pig was killed by an American. Both sides fortified and had a 3-year staring match until they managed to solve the dispute amicably and redrew the border.

	24-03-2002 07:50									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi I don't see why we wouldn't accept Alberta, because it has oil and we like oil in this country. Right now there is relative prosperity in Canada, and people normally do not want change when there are good times. If there were a very large recession throughout Canada, it would lead to possibility of Radical action.

Accepting it into the Union would mar our relations with Canada, as well as feed their paranoia that we are only waiting to gobble them up. Anways, the study I read about was commmissioned under Reagan, so it may well have changed. (I read it in 1987, during the Meech Lake discussions.)

In the event of a seperation of Quebec from Canada, the Maritime provinces also said they would cecede and apply for membership in the US. It was expected that this would precipitate a break up of Canada, where upon the US would more or less have it's choice of provinces. BC was felt as the only real choice, since every other option at the time would have been a drain on the economy. Plus, it would have made the US a contiguous country.

	24-03-2002 07:51									#69
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"managed to solve the dispute amicably and redrew the border."

With amusing consequences for High School students in the future Blaine, Washington....

If you can't trust the Kaiser, who can you trust?!

	24-03-2002 07:56									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker "managed to solve the dispute amicably and redrew the border." With amusing consequences for High School students in the future Blaine, Washington.... If you can't trust the Kaiser, who can you trust?!

That's not a zigzag. It's just a line straight across, with a little land dipping down below the border.

	24-03-2002 07:58									#71
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Attempting to absorb Canada sans Quebec will be hell on the American system. The Territories remain sparsely populated. The Maritimes will still have to depend on Equalization payments until the fisheries replenish themselves or they find some new industry. Canada as a whole is less capitalistic then the US (but we have higher taxes). This would mean that combining taxation systems would be a mess, and intergrating our health care plans with American plans will also be a mess. On the plus side, there shouldn't be any -30% to income due to culture difference.... (too much EU2)

	24-03-2002 08:01									#72
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Another reason why the US doesn't want Canada. We'd get a viable social-democratic party with it.

	24-03-2002 08:02									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Shadowstrike On the plus side, there shouldn't be any -30% to income due to culture difference.... (too much EU2)

But there'd still be +3 revolt risk due to nationalism.

	24-03-2002 08:13									#74
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Che: If we were going to gobble up a Canadian province, Alberta would be the better choice politically and economically for two reasons:

1) As has been already been stated, they have oil which is a big plus.

2) As far as I know, they are the only Canadian province that votes close to the American mainstream.

	24-03-2002 08:19									#75
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I'm not arguing for the annexation of Canada or its parts (although I do think that the seperation of us into two countries is a farce). I'm just relating what I read from the Chicago Tribune back 15 years ago. I have written that our government's poistions may have changed.

	24-03-2002 08:19									#76
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I'd agree we'd take Alberta (now anyway), but also BC, to join with Alaska and because Vancouver is pretty .

	24-03-2002 08:20									#77
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Vancouver is cool. I'd like to get a job there.

	24-03-2002 08:22									#78
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I wonder for how long we're still going to be talking about this on the conditional mode.
In the distant future, will Canada eventually become part of the U.S. ? And when ?

	24-03-2002 08:25									#79
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Also, if you're going to take Alberta for the oil, you also have to think about Quebec, Manitoba and Ontario for another increasingly valuable commodity : fresh water.

	24-03-2002 08:25									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'd agree we'd take Alberta (now anyway), but also BC, to join with Alaska and because Vancouver is pretty .

Well according to the article I posted on the first page, in the event Quebec seceded from Canada, we would likely have our pick of provinces due to the fact that Canada would unravel.

	24-03-2002 08:27									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu Also, if you're going to take Alberta for the oil, you also have to think about Quebec, Manitoba and Ontario for another increasingly valuable commodity : fresh water.

We aren't hurting for fresh water.

	24-03-2002 08:31									#82
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Don't forget that the Northern Territories also have lots of oil. Labrador has huge iron deposits also. I suspect that if Quebec's independence precipitated a request by one or more of the more conservative western provinces to join the US, that if the US said yes then it would be difficult for the US to refuse similar requests from other provinces.

The Democratic Party would love it.

	24-03-2002 08:36									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I suspect that if Quebec's independence precipitated a request by one or more of the more conservative western provinces to join the US, that if the US said yes then it would be difficult for the US to refuse similar requests from other provinces.

I doubt that would be so. We would be setting the terms of admission and would likely reject any province we felt like.

	24-03-2002 09:15									#84
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The zig-zag doesn't show up on large scales.

Look at a map of Vancouver Island and surrounding area, it extends right into the sea (the zig zagging part)

	24-03-2002 09:22									#85
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Well, admission to the US requires a treaty (which is why Hawaii shouldn't be part of the US), which requires 2/3rd Senate approval. It's very possible that in order for Alberta to gain admission, the Dem's would require, say, admission of Nova Scotia to counter-balance the expected Republican shift.

	24-03-2002 09:28									#86
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It's very possible that in order for Alberta to gain admission, the Dem's would require, say, admission of Nova Scotia to counter-balance the expected Republican shift.

The Republicans would be more than happy to admit Nova Scotia and count themselves lucky that the Dems didn't choose British Columbia instead.

	24-03-2002 09:35									#87
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BC swung hard to the right in recent years. I thought.

Anyway, it's not like the Dem's want to see the New Dem's in the US either.

	24-03-2002 09:55									#88
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I'm sorry, I'm confused....

...this is important to Toronto because....?

	24-03-2002 20:02									#89
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che: BC is just about set up for a backlash. The provincial libs just cut hard and deep into the public sector, and it pissed a whole hell of a lot of people off (not just the public servants). They voted Alliance last federal election, but with Harper at the head of the party it's doubtful they'll do so again next time.

Doc Strangelove: Alberta is the only really conservative Western province. Following them in politics are Ontario, PEI and Manitoba (that order).

quote: It's very possible that in order for Alberta to gain admission, the Dem's would require, say, admission of Nova Scotia to counter-balance the expected Republican shift

Alberta wouldn't vote Republican, IMHO. The idea's almost silly to me. The Dem's centre might appeal to them.

	24-03-2002 20:03									#90
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Western voters are weird, BTW. The swing from NDP to Alliance, and don't even bother looking at the center parties.