04-08-2003 21:05									#91
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At the start you're usually done in a couple of mins. Log in make your moves, explore, build a city -rinse&repeat-. Later on as you're empire increases in size and complexity it will take about 5-10. During those turns you can get aquainted with the micro management features. Automated settlers, patrols and goto's will come into play (units set on an enemy city will also attack it). If you grow into super empire size. It really comes down on how much you want to automate or micromanage by hand.

	04-08-2003 22:10									#92
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I cant commit to a game that I have to play every day but might be able to usb if needed.

	04-08-2003 22:36									#93
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Hmm is this like an on-line pbem game? but without having to e-mail the saves.

	04-08-2003 23:36									#94
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Rah,

"On-line pbem"? Hmmm... Yes, that would be one to look at it. But unlike PBEM The game doesn't ground to a halt if a single player forgets to move. All players move at the same "time", 24 hours in this case. If you forget a turn, no biggie. But neglecting your turns too long will put you behind.

I do think it has shades of an online RPG. What we basically do is playing Civ2MP with a ridiculously long timeout (24h*). You simply log with the client, do your stuff, chat with other players online to strike some deals and log out again.



* The 24 hour period has been set arbitrary. It could just as well be set to half a day (12h), a week (168h timeout) or even longer.

	05-08-2003 11:48									#95
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That actually seems like like good idea, it might enable more people to play civ games.

	05-08-2003 17:46									#96
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So if I'm reading that correct, in your 24* situation, you're playing one turn a day?

	05-08-2003 21:49									#97
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Hmmm... that might make it intersting for many large civiliations MP games. You set it for an hour, let everybody micromanage their civs and move their hundreds of units... and let the turn advance after an hour. Since you would busy during that time, and with no real wait then... it might be fun, vs waiting 3 hours between turns while other people move

	06-08-2003 01:48									#98
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That's what I was thinking and why I asked the question.

	06-08-2003 02:45									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Hmmm... that might make it intersting for many large civiliations MP games. You set it for an hour, let everybody micromanage their civs and move their hundreds of units... and let the turn advance after an hour. Since you would busy during that time, and with no real wait then... it might be fun, vs waiting 3 hours between turns while other people move

Yes, that's the way the system works. Move or no moves, the game advances one turn after 1 hour. Although 1turn/hour also implies everyone could play a turn every hour of the day!

One turn per day is easier for everyone due to timezones.

	06-08-2003 13:00									#100
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So you couldn't play 1 turn per hour for say 6 hours, stop the game and restart at a later date ?????

	06-08-2003 15:44									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Hydey So you couldn't play 1 turn per hour for say 6 hours, stop the game and restart at a later date ?????

Of course not.

The one turn per day works because every player has time to move before the moves are resolved, regardless of timezone. With lesser move times you'd have to arrange everyone to be online together, like always. The advantage of this structure lies in mitigating that hassle. The disadvantage, of course, is that games take roughly 16.4 years to finish.

	06-08-2003 18:14									#102
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Yeah, I was hoping it was more like Hydey suggested, so you could get in 6 turns at a time. One turn a day would drag it out a bit much.

	06-08-2003 19:52									#103
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I think he's saying that it does work the way we would want. As long as everybody is on line at the same time, you could set it for an hour, play three to 6 turns, and then pick the game up again when everybody else is on line.

	06-08-2003 20:41									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Ming I think he's saying that it does work the way we would want. As long as everybody is on line at the same time, you could set it for an hour, play three to 6 turns, and then pick the game up again when everybody else is on line.

Yes, such a system would work in theory. If I understand correctly, what Hydey is saying is that you I) play 6 one- hour turns during the day; II) save at the end of turn 6; III) wait 18 hours and IV) reload the savegame and continue from there.

Another solution would be for the admin to set the timeout to 24-6=18 hours at the end of the 6th* turn and set it back to one hour the next day. That way players could still log in and check the score at leisure.



* In this case there would be a '7th' turn that would last 18 hours. 1+1+1+1+1+1+18=24 hours

	07-08-2003 14:30									#105
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I think you're talking about 2 different uses of the system:

1) the use for pbem-like games, where you can "enter" your turn at any time during a given day (or other duration, of course)

2) the use for "real" MP games, where the people are online at the ame time; it could then be interesting for the endgame, where the turns are really long (even without Slowthinker ) because all the players could then play there turn "simulatenously" during a given durtion without needing to wait till the others' end of turn.

Is my summary correct?

And if yes, then both uses could be interesting, in their own different way!

	07-08-2003 20:26									#106
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Sounds about right.. I was talking about #2, and how it could make things go a lot quicker when the game gets to that stage. When turns start taking that long, being able for everybody to be doing their turns at the same time would be a great advantage.

	07-08-2003 20:51									#107
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But, remember all the arguements started by using simul move in CIV II.

	07-08-2003 20:58									#108
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Good point... how does combat/movement work. Does it resolve combat at the end of a turn after all players have moved?

	07-08-2003 22:57									#109
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quote: Originally posted by CapTVK Automated settlers, patrols and goto's will come into play (units set on an enemy city will also attack it). If you grow into super empire size.

This type of statement leads to believe there may be some deficiencies in the combat in how many decisions you can make when combat is occuring.

	09-08-2003 02:07									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Good point... how does combat/movement work. Does it resolve combat at the end of a turn after all players have moved?

it works the same way as it would in simul. The players who move first have the wheel.

Automated moves (and also those that result in combat) are resolved right at the start for all the players. I'm not sure if all automated units use the AI_combat routines With goto's you can send wave after wave of weak units to attack static units and cities and so on. For units settled in cities there's also an auto-attack option. I haven't used it myself, I always tend to fortify units.

	09-08-2003 02:13									#111
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quote: Originally posted by rah This type of statement leads to believe there may be some deficiencies in the combat in how many decisions you can make when combat is occuring.

As long as you have sufficient time (and patience to move a few hundred units yourself ) this isn't a problem. If speed is of the essence you're better off delegating. Units doing nothing in the field are a waste.

	10-08-2003 04:55									#112
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Units attacking without a cohesive strategy are too.

	11-08-2003 03:23									#113
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If it's Simul how does Freeciv address the usual Simul problems? Granted there is no host advantage, but being awake when 'the clock strikes 12' seems a large advantage.

	11-08-2003 17:21									#114
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Yes, I'm interested in that answer also.

	12-08-2003 00:20									#115
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike If it's Simul how does Freeciv address the usual Simul problems? Granted there is no host advantage, but being awake when 'the clock strikes 12' seems a large advantage.

Ah, and there is! That's where the unit goto's and automated units come into view. Those (all civs) move at the start of the turn, right at the moment 'the clock strikes 12'.

	12-08-2003 00:24									#116
	Freeciv : AI Diplomacy is in! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

This is just in: Diplomacy has been added to the Freeciv CVS. That means the next version of FC will have AI diplomacy!

quote: The code in CVS now contains AI support for diplomacy. You no longer start out automatically at war with the AIs, and you can make peace and alliances with them, as well as exchange techs and give gifts. Their behaviour tends towards "king of the hill", which means they will gang up on the strongest player. However, they tend to be pretty good allies, as long as you honour the alliance too. Please give it a try if you can, and let me know what you think about it. I am sure a lot of adjustments are needed still.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...626#post2254363

Two thumbs up up for Per and all the other developers working on the AI code.

	12-08-2003 00:41									#117
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quote: Originally posted by CapTVK Ah, and there is! That's where the unit goto's and automated units come into view. Those (all civs) move at the start of the turn, right at the moment 'the clock strikes 12'.

Hmm, that's intriguing, and to my knowledge quite innovative. Shame its still so slow. Still, if I was a PBEMaholic I would definitely check long turn Freeciv out.

	12-08-2003 00:44									#118
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quote: Originally posted by CapTVK Ah, and there is! That's where the unit goto's and automated units come into view. Those (all civs) move at the start of the turn, right at the moment 'the clock strikes 12'.

So there will still be the arguements that simul had when the clock strikes 12, and you'd better be there.

	12-08-2003 00:57									#119
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Well Cap seems to be saying the automated moves can mitigate the advantage...........it's really quite different from the Civ we are used to.

	12-08-2003 01:22									#120
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FC has been around for years (it was started in 1995, before Civ2 came out in 1996) and was designed with goal to create a free MP version of Civ (and later on Civ2). The emphasis was on multiplayer, not singleplayer (hence the long lack of AI diplomacy). Because FC centered on MP from the outset most issues/problems relating to MP have been fixed or adressed in some way to keep things balanced.