27-03-2002 03:51									#1
	Do you think that Civilization III could be made better? Get a bigger avatar today!

Of course, we've all had our "little" complaints about Civilization III. I'm sure that many of us here could think of hundreds, if not thousands of ways that this game could be improved. But of course we all know that not all of our ideas can be implemented into the game or it would become too complex. Keep it simple, stupid. LOL!!!

It is possible that Firaxis may release an expansion pack, or two, or three, or more in the near future that may greatly improve this game. But I believe that they really need some help from their fans on what to put in them. So let's use this thread to post our thoughts, questions, comments and concerns about how Civilization III could be made better here. And may I kindly ask that a Moderator sticky this thread.

LET'S ROLL!!!

	27-03-2002 05:26									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm sorry, but this poll is funny.






Oh, yeah, everything can be made better.

	27-03-2002 07:36									#3
	Suffering from ads?

How can you possibly say *no*?

Even the programmers are working on improvements, so they must say yes, or hate their jobs. Of course Dan Magaha would prolly try to go with 42 Ninja Bananas if he could.

Last edited by notyoueither on 27-03-2002 at 08:55

	27-03-2002 07:46									#4
	Suffering from ads?

OK. here's a major one that I'm blatantly ripping off from Vel and his crew from the Patch with no name.

Civs lacking a resource should be able to build variants of units that require resources. Hence, no oil? Build Light Tanks.

No Iron? A different version of Cavalry and Swordsmen. etc.

They had the shield cost doubled, I think. You might make the varients slightly weaker in attack/defence and cost some small number of Gold to initiate.

Resources would still be very desirable, however the human could no longer bugger the AI by intelligent and/or devious strategic warfare methods. No more Longbowmen in the Modern Age. Or is it Riflemen now, with 1.17? Whatever, the point remains.

	27-03-2002 08:53									#5
	Support Apolyton

i would like to see the ability to broker a peace deal while a war is going on. i hate it when wars between rival nations happen and both armies march across my territory to kill each other. I know i have to massacre the winner

I would just like it to feel like more of an actual civilized diplomacy than just the warfare. i would like to see one uu per age as opposed to the one per civilization.

but what i would like the most to see would be the mongols!!!!! the Huns!!!! and the inca!!!!! oh and maybe, just maybe the phoneaicans, but i can live without them.

I would also like the combat system to make sense! to say that it blows would be to call pearl harbor a mistake. the combat system is just plain nuts!


fix it!!

	27-03-2002 09:12									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I think a "no" vote would have to be either an accident, or drunkeness.

Or Yin playing with our heads.

	27-03-2002 09:14									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't think there's a game anywhere in the world that couldn't be made better, and civ3 is no exception...

	27-03-2002 10:31									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

It could have been "better" if they gave it to all of us free to playtest their beta game instead of ripping us off for $50 plus that stupid "Strategy Guide".

	27-03-2002 10:38									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

You bought a strategy guide?

Sorry, but wouldn't 3 threads on Poly have more, better information?

	27-03-2002 11:37									#10
	New Wonders of the World Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

**************************************************

Ok, since I'm the one that started this thread I'd like to put in my own little advice for Firaxis:

CIVILIZATION III NEEDS MORE WONDERS OF THE WORLD!!!

No doubt about it, and I've got some great ideas for some new wonders for Civilization III and their effects, prerequisites, and expirations below:
**************************************************


GREAT WONDERS OF THE WORLD

The Pentagon: This is already in the game, but there really is only one Pentagon in the world, so this should be made into a Great Wonder. This is the ultimate military wonder! The boss of all military wonders! If you want to have the strongest military in world, then this is a must have!
Prerequisite: Military Tradition
Effects:
A. All existing and new military units (those which have an attack value) are given the status of elite, provided that they were originally trained in a city with barracks.
B. All obsolete military units are automatically replaced by advanced modern units.
C. The defense effect of all military city improvements is effectively doubled.
D. The speed at which military units and improvements can be produced is effectively doubled.
Expires: Never.

The White House: That's right! 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue: The most famous address in the world! If one of your goals in Civilization III is to become a strong leader in the Democratic free world, then this is a must have!
Prerequisite: Democracy
Effects:
A. This wonder replaces your palace as the capital building and makes the city in which it was a built your permanent capital, so as long as the White House still exists. The city in which the White House resides is given an advantage: All people in the city are made happy.
B. Your government is immediately changed to Democracy if it is not already and is given a permanent status as a Democracy, so long as the White House still exists. Your government becomes the strongest Democracy in the world. Corruption is virtually eliminated. Your production rate is effectively doubled and your tax income is also doubled. Your workers work 100% faster instead of 50%. Your government can never fall into Anarchy unless the White House is destroyed.
C. You become the undisputed leader of the free Democratic world. All other Democratic civilizations must ally with you. You are also given a Right of Passage and a free Embassy with all the other Democratic nations. If a non-Democratic civilization allies with you it is highly likely that it itself will become a Democratic civilization in the near future.
Expires: Never.

The World Trade Center: We can't forget this one. I figured that in tribute to the victims of September 11th that Firaxis should add this in. Besides, it's effects undoubtedly make sense and are needed in the game.
Prerequisite: The Corporation
Effects:
A. The civilization with the World Trade Center is able trade goods with any civilization, even without roads/rails leading to their capitals.
B. The civilization with the World Trade Center is able to trade any resource available within its borders, even without roads/rails leading to them.
Expires: Never.

SMALL WONDERS OF THE WORLD

The International Space Station: This is an International joint program designed to promote peace throughout the world and to promote the trade of knowledge.
Prerequisite: Satellites
Effects:
A. All civilizations that have the International Space Station Wonder must make peace with one another.
B. All civilizations that have the International Space Station Wonder recieve technologies that have already been discovered by two other civilizations that also have this wonder.
Expires: Never.

The Internet: Many a civilization fans pressed for this to be included in Civilization III, and it's a shame Firaxis left it out. Those bastards! This wonder has a positive effect on your economy, your science rate, and luxuries.
Prerequisite: Computers
Effects:
A. Things are just done easier and more cost effectively with the Internet. Because of this your production rate is effectively doubled.
B. The Internet is the Information Highway and makes research and learning easier and more dispensable. As a result, your science rate is effectively increased by 50%.
C. The Internet can be used as a tool for luxury. It allows network gaming, chatting, online dating, much easier and cheaper to access to porn, and much much more. As a result, your luxury rate is effectively increased by 50%.
Expires: Never.

The Library of Congress: Every civilization should have a one stop place for it's people to go for access to all the knowledge and media that that civilization has to offer. This has an effect on your science rate.
Prerequisite: Education
Effect:
A. Your science rate is effectively increased by 50%.
Expires: Never.

Mission To Mars: In order to get to Alpha Centauri, the technology needed to get there must first be put to the test. So before you can go to Alpha Centauri, you must first successfully reach and build a colony on nearby Mars. This comes after the Apollo Program is completed, which allows you to build the spaceship parts. This wonder cannot be built until you have successfully completed the Apollo Program.
Prerequisite: Space Flight
Effect: Allows you to send a completed spaceship to Alpha Centauri.
Expires: Never.

	27-03-2002 12:14									#11
	Got spare money?

How about the missing MP and PBEM facilities?

	27-03-2002 13:01									#12
	Support Apolyton

Could game XYZ be made better? Sure.

	27-03-2002 15:33									#13
	Support Apolyton

Well...ofcourse it can be made better!!!

My god what kind of troll like poll is this?

	27-03-2002 17:20									#14
	Yeah It could be better Put an end to popups!

Of course it could be better, thats what the Gold Edition is going to be for (I wish It was a joke) hehe

Anyway, looking at that other thread about improvements, obviously there are a lot of things that need fixing up.

Personally I have been waiting years for these games to go proper 3d, and get rid of the whole grid thing. That has always bugged me.

Otherwise frankly it rocks, Sid Meier (sp?) generally make great games.

-Bashheart

	27-03-2002 18:50									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Cloud9, IMHO those great wonders would make the game too American. There are already a lot of American wonders, so I think they are enough. Civilization must represent all the epic history, not only the modern world, and USA have only been the big boss in the world for half a century or so, or actually just since the breakdown of Soviet Union, which makes ten years.
I also think it´s not at all evident that USA is the "undisputed leader of the free Democratic world". There are pretty many in the world that has a different opinion, there are even pretty many that don´t share the opinion that democracy is the best government. And in fact, India is the biggest democracy in the world, not USA.
World Trade Center? Give me a break. Sure, I won´t argue that what happened September 11th was terrible and a real big thing that made the world different, but to add it as a tribute to the victims? That seems more like a scorn to the victims, IMO. Why not have a wonder which is a tribute to all people that has died in the wars throughout the history? Or by famine?

The small wonders you suggested are ok, but actually, I think the list of wonders is long enough and there are other things that are of more importance to be fixed.

	27-03-2002 21:27									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

sheeeesh, cloud9, how american are you??

this was a general remark.
on a more particular note, did it ever occur to you that much, much bigger disasters than sept 11th occured during the world's history?? what are 3000 people dying in the most spectacular terrorist attack of all times, compared to other events causing the death of millions of people?? negligible, that's what. (go ahead and flame me, we both know I'm right).

as for the effects of your World Trade Center wonder, consider a commerce bonus à la Colossus instead of the effects you suggested, which are useless at this stage of the game.

	27-03-2002 23:04									#17
	Suffering from ads?

ok cloud where should i start. 1st off definately more wonders of the world but your selection and bonuses need some work,
1) pentagon-bonuses to overpowering... that simple
2)the white house?????? sounds like a UN with extra bonuses making democracy playable in warfare
3) WTC- plz get off the bandwagon
4)space station.... plausible but by the time you build it you would be into future techs
5)internet - excellent except the extra research is again a waste
6)library of congress- we run out of techs too early now
7)mission to mars- redundent building of spaceship parts---- would just let you know when AI was building the real spaceship

Ok now ive opened my big mouth, lets see what other possibilities there are for wonders
1)internal combustion engine
2)guttenbergs printing press
3)a wonder for each government type:
democracy-house of representatives
communisim- the kremlin
republic-the senate
monarchy-the round table
despotism- not really coming up with anything
anarchy-tianemmen square? not really sure how that one would work
im sure there are many others that are truly world wonders and would not just be late game builds instead of wealth.wow i could get really flamed here, we shall see.

	27-03-2002 23:13									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by dikwhit ok cloud where should i start. 1st off definately more wonders of the world but your selection and bonuses need some work, 1) pentagon-bonuses to overpowering... that simple

Not to mention the real Pentagon tends to inspire some derision, even (or is that especially) from military personnel in the US military.

So add some red tape disads.

(Besides which, the small wonder Pentagon is obviously a large GHQ for a particular civ. It would be nice if you could name it to suit your particular civ, though.)

	27-03-2002 23:43									#19
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Regarding Wonders:

Actually have the Wonders appear as buildings after they're built.

Here is an example of some of the work currently being done by Modders for CTP2:

http://apolyton.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=831964


For a better look at what's in progress, check it out at:


http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...30&pagenumber=1

	27-03-2002 23:52									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The "not gonna do this because it's too difficult and Firaxis'd get sued" wonder:


Stargate

Abilities: Can go to new planets, seek out new civilizations and get ambushed by aliens

Disads: Goa'uld warships entering Sol system.

	28-03-2002 00:38									#21
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Flanker And in fact, India is the biggest democracy in the world, not USA.

Maybe India is as far as population, but as far as it's cultural effects it does not add up to the U.S.A. Period.

Let's not forget that the U.S.A. was the first Democracy ever, and as a result has had the biggest cultural influence on the free world to date.

	28-03-2002 01:07									#22
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Flanker Cloud9, IMHO those great wonders would make the game too American. There are already a lot of American wonders, so I think they are enough.

You may think so, but these are only a portion of my ideas for new Wonders of the World. I have many more that I have not shared. And like I said in my first post to this thread, Firaxis could not possibly implement all of our ideas for expansion packs into the game or else it would become too complex. And let's not forget that in the game any civilization can use these wonders, not just the Americans.

	28-03-2002 04:08									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Let's not forget that the U.S.A. was the first Democracy ever, and as a result has had the biggest cultural influence on the free world to date.

Cloud, not to flame or anything but get your facts straight before posting. U.S.A was not the first Democracy, not by a longshot. Ancient Athens has that distinction. Also (sorry, had to get this jab in) how can a country call itself a Democracy when it's current leader didn't win the popular vote.
Also one can argue that England's democracy has the most cultural effect since other countries use it's style of parliamentary representation and constitutional monarchy (Canada, Australia, India, Denmark, Russia, Japan to name a few).
Only France uses a system similar to the United States (and we all know how much America loves the French).

	28-03-2002 04:15									#24
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I had to vote no for all the "many" people who visit this site, love CIV3 (as is) but who havent yet found this thread to vote and proclaim their satisfaction (but want to).

	28-03-2002 04:17									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The USA is not a democracy it's a republic (and not even close to being the first of those).

	28-03-2002 04:29									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It's a Democratic Republic based on a Union of Sovereign States.

It is the first nation state of the modern world to implement democracy on a wide scale.

It's institutions are very well developed and are in many cases far superior to the British Parliamentary system.

One of the problems with the daugthers of GB is that the nations were not founded on constitutions and developed from there. Canada is the oldest of the independant dominions. In our case the office of the Prime Minister has basically subverted all other potential powers (except the supreme court). The Governor General is nothing. The Senate is powerless. The MPs in parliament have been declawed. It has been said that the PM of Canada is the most powerful politician in the world (relative to other powers within the same state; not relative to other politicians in the world).

	28-03-2002 04:31									#27
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I think it could be made quite a bit better. What I'd do is add movies when some wonders were built. Maybe a movie of the pyramids with camels riding by, etc... Oh, and maybe movies of the consultants you have.

	28-03-2002 07:04									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

We start with an arguement over whether "x" could be better and that degenerates into a revisionist history lesson. This thread should die.

USA does rule, though.

	28-03-2002 07:28									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Rotten999 We start with an arguement over whether "x" could be better and that degenerates into a revisionist history lesson. This thread should die. USA does rule, though.

Well, wheres your topic?

	28-03-2002 09:31									#30
	IMHO Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither It's a Democratic Republic based on a Union of Sovereign States. It is the first nation state of the modern world to implement democracy on a wide scale. It's institutions are very well developed and are in many cases far superior to the British Parliamentary system. One of the problems with the daugthers of GB is that the nations were not founded on constitutions and developed from there. Canada is the oldest of the independant dominions. In our case the office of the Prime Minister has basically subverted all other potential powers (except the supreme court). The Governor General is nothing. The Senate is powerless. The MPs in parliament have been declawed. It has been said that the PM of Canada is the most powerful politician in the world (relative to other powers within the same state; not relative to other politicians in the world).

Thank you notyoueither. My point exactly!

Not to flame up or anything, but in my honest opinion I think that some of you foreigners just don't have enough respect for the United States, and as a result are putting down any ideas for "American-type" wonders in Civilization III. Sad. Sad. Sad.