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blackice
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Canada where else...
Sep 2000
time: 00:18
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quote:
It isn't, at the time of its abortion, a human. It cannot surivive independently of its host. |
Back to redundant see above...
quote:
An infant does not gain nutrients from a host's blood stream. An infant does not gain oxygen from a host's blood stream. An infant does not live within a host's amniotic sac. I'd hardly call this "redundant" with the parasitism of an embryo. |
Oh tripe and you know it oxygen. an invalid sometimes needs an iron lung and parents love therefore a perisite? Blood stream a transfusion "kill them now"? food I prepare because my infant can not=amniotic sac.
Moving on....
quote:
par·a·sit·ism Pronunciation Key (pr-s-tzm, -s-)
n.
The characteristic behavior or mode of existence of a parasite or parasitic population.
Parasitosis.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
quote:
parasitism
\Par"a*si`tism\, n. [Cf. F. parasitisme.] 1. The state or behavior of a parasite; the act of a parasite. ``Court parasitism.'' --Milton.
2. (Bot. & Zo["o]l.)The state of being parasitic.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
parasitism
n : the relation between two different kinds of organisms in which one receives benefits from the other by causing damage to it (usually not fatal damage)
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University |
parasitism
A type of symbiosis where two (or more) organisms from different species live in close proximity to one another, in which one member depends on another for its nutrients, protection, and/or other life functions.
The dependent member (the parasite) benefits from the relationship while the other one (the host) is harmed by it.
(09 Oct 1997) |
I hate to pull the dictionary on you but let's be real I have had a few paricidic friends too...It obviously is based...your entire arguement on what "you" define as "parasidic" You continuously ignore the fact that some humans "living" fall in your description....Lame move on the mere fact that a human forms and is a "parasitism" should not mean death....unless you include all forms of life that "in which one member depends on another for its nutrients" and that includes "YOU
quote:
Do they gain nutrients from somebody else's blood stream? Do they gain oxygen from somebody else's blood stream? Do they live within somebody else's amniotic sac? If not, then you're drawing false parallels. |
So what you are saying is the mere fact human procrete they way they do should mean certain death based on life in the food chain as we know it? 
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loinburger
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Sweet Sauce Jones
Jul 1999
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by blackice
Oh tripe and you know it oxygen. an invalid sometimes needs an iron lung and parents love therefore a perisite? |
Is the iron lung dying as a result of the invalid's use of it? I was not aware that iron lungs were alive. Is the parent forced to love the invalid? No, they do not love the invalid out of biological necessity, unlike the host mother who has no choice as to whether or not an embryo takes nutrients from her blood stream.
quote:
Blood stream a transfusion "kill them now"? |
It's not parasitism when the "host" has a choice in the matter. A mother with an embryo does not have a choice in whether or not she is going to give up nutrients and oxygen, a blood donor does have a choice.
quote:
food I prepare because my infant can not=amniotic sac. |
 Now you're grasping at straws. An amniotic sac is an actual integrated part of a woman's body. Your food processor/oven/whatever is not an integrated part of your body, therefore preparing food for your infant is not equivalent to being an amniotic sac; you are not sacrificing nutrients from your body in order to feed your infant.
quote:
I hate to pull the dictionary on you but let's be real I have had a few paricidic friends too... |
So you have friends who gain nutrients and oxygen by leeching off of your blood stream? Just like how an embryo leeches nutrients and oxygen off of the blood stream of its host? Well then, roll out the red carpets, because we have an example of parasitism in a real live human being. How did your friends manage this feat of draining your blood without your consent?
Or do you mean that you have friends who seem to take more than they give, but you remain friends with them anyway? Guess what, that ain't parasitism. You have a choice in your friends, and there is almost certainly some give-and-take in your friendships; it would be unusual indeed if you were the only "giver". And guess what, if it's a give-and-take relationship then it ain't parasitism.
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It obviously is based...your entire arguement on what "you" define as "parasidic" |
Or, rather, on what the "dictionary" defines as "parasitic." You're the one who whipped out the dictionary, and so far everything you've described as parasitic isn't (but rather involves choice as well as give-and-take), and everything that I've described as parasitic (an embryo that takes nutrients from its host mother without in any way contributing to the health of the mother) is, indeed, parasitic according to the dictionary.
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You continuously ignore the fact that some humans "living" fall in your description.... |
Nope, not a single human you've described counts as a parasite. Even somebody who is brain dead does not leech off of a host, but instead leeches off of machines (therefore causing them to not be in a parasitic relationship, since machines are not alive).
quote:
Lame move on the mere fact that a human forms and is a "parasitism" should not mean death....unless you include all forms of life that "in which one member depends on another for its nutrients" and that includes "YOU |
I am a social animal and as such require other humans. However, there is give-and-take in my relationships with other humans; our relationships are symbiotic, not parasitic.
Good night.
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REASONS I AM PROCHOICE
God, or whatever higher power exists, makes the final judgement. Abortion is often the humane thing to do. Many Pro-Lifers get on their high horse "oh we love life" but then don't give a sh!t when the baby ends up becoming a crack head, or grows up in a terrible environment and becomes a criminal, or has other mental problems because of growing up in an instable home.
Men cannot put laws on a woman's body. Women are not objects to which laws can be placed on.
REASONS I AM FOR THE DEATH PENALTY
Death is humankind's greatest fear. Death is the ultimate punishment that can be handed out.
Even people with mental illness are not worth saving. It is impossible to undo a lifetime of mental problems in a few years. It is better for society to rid the Earth of those people.
I believe that in the life sentence, we are guaranteeing the killer a long life where he/she will be taken care of.
Not only do I believe in the death penalty for murder. But I believe it should be expanded to include rape, pedophelia, and some extreme cases of assault.
BUT
I think the justice system is corrupt and there are many innocent people. It needs reform. Open and shut cases like Andrea Yates should be eligible for the death penalty.
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Caligastia
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What makes us human as opposed to glorified apes? Intelligence
Before a baby is born it is scarcely different from the foetus of a chimp.
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blackice
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Canada where else...
Sep 2000
time: 00:18
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quote:
Is the iron lung dying as a result of the invalid's use of it? I was not aware that iron lungs were alive. Is the parent forced to love the invalid? No, they do not love the invalid out of biological necessity, unlike the host mother who has no choice as to whether or not an embryo takes nutrients from her blood stream. |
And this is where the contradicted, muddled disapprobation of a tortive, tortile "kill everything that can not defend themselves" wit resort...
quote:
It's not parasitism when the "host" has a choice in the matter. A mother with an embryo does not have a choice in whether or not she is going to give up nutrients and oxygen, a blood donor does have a choice. |
tout au contraire a condom a choice you seem to ignore the fact that life is chioces...all life deserves one from fruition to "fact"
quote:
Now you're grasping at straws. An amniotic sac is an actual integrated part of a woman's body. Your food processor/oven/whatever is not an integrated part of your body, therefore preparing food for your infant is not equivalent to being an amniotic sac; you are not sacrificing nutrients from your body in order to feed your infant. |
Well you have defined the obvious "kill em" it is taking my soul... you have yet to make a point to justify "killing" a life other than " I sustain it therefore I can...
quote:
So you have friends who gain nutrients and oxygen by leeching off of your blood stream? |
And here you are running amok acting the hero "claiming" I put words in peoples mouths...and you, ahh I see all designed to make your mute point...lame
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How did your friends manage this feat of draining your blood without your consent? |
How and what did you use to feed yourself tonight?
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You have a choice in your friends, |
You have a choice in pregnacy too, or is it as cosmic as you perceive?
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Society is full of examples where men have chosen to walk away from pregnancies for which they were responsible. |
It is also full of women chosing to deny men thier right to thier child also...
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Women understandably cannot do this - their lifestyles are heavily altered by the pregnancy. |
Abortion allows this, yes it is a responsibility for sure one that should be looked at as a gift not a burden...
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"the woman's choice" |
And the man's? this comment alone obviously ignores 50% of the population...
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Should have ignored Mr blackice. I would have noted his copious fallacies long ago. |
As I have yours  So everyone ignore Urban sure looks childish when you read it back does it not Urban...
"Many"
Many? quite the assumption...
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Men cannot put laws on a woman's body. Women are not objects to which laws can be placed on. |
First of all women are law makers too, second we all have laws out on us. What then makes women above the law?
"It is better for society to rid the Earth of those people."
You are the humanitarian are'nt you :eyesroll: First you have "men can not put laws on a womans body" then you want to kill all that are not up to your standard. Does this include Women that are not worthy too?
"Intelligence"
So then mentally challenged non intellegent "humans" should be killed too? :eyesroll:
quote:
Serves me right for giving him the benefit of the doubt. Never again. |
So it would appear anyone with a different point of view or are labeled then should be ignored? It would appear some have very narrow views of a debate and offer very little by way of opinions. Others then agree for lack of a more intellegent stance...This forum would be quite boring if we all listened to the few "self proclaimed intellectuals" around here and thier childish notions...
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OzzyKP
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Rockville, MD
Oct 1999
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Bald assertions don't work. You must first show that a fetus is the same as a human. |
If you are looking for scientific proof, then it doesn't exist. There is no conclusive evidence or belief as to whether a fetus is a human, also no evidence or consistent belief that a fetus isn't a human. So neither side has any absolute proof on this issue. It could go either way.
I ask you, if there is a possibility of a person hiding in the bushes, would you shoot a gun into it? There might be a person in there, there might not, you don't know. You only have your beliefs. You've got 4 people on your rights yelling "don't shoot! don't shoot! there is a person there, you'll kill him!" you've got 4 people on your left yelling "ah, go ahead, who cares? There isn't anyone there, just a bush, shoot your gun, have fun". You don't really know, so what do you do?
Personally I think the risk is too great to take a chance by pulling the trigger.
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by OzzyKP
If you are looking for scientific proof, then it doesn't exist. There is no conclusive evidence or belief as to whether a fetus is a human, also no evidence or consistent belief that a fetus isn't a human. So neither side has any absolute proof on this issue. It could go either way. |
Then the burden of proof lies with the side that is making the assertion.
quote:
Originally posted by OzzyKP
I ask you, if there is a possibility of a person hiding in the bushes, would you shoot a gun into it? There might be a person in there, there might not, you don't know. You only have your beliefs. You've got 4 people on your rights yelling "don't shoot! don't shoot! there is a person there, you'll kill him!" you've got 4 people on your left yelling "ah, go ahead, who cares? There isn't anyone there, just a bush, shoot your gun, have fun". You don't really know, so what do you do? |
Send all eight of them to search in the bushes? 
Seriously I don't see how that matters. It doesn't seem like an appropiate hypothethical scenario that has a bearing on the issue at hand.
It's that we don't know if there's something there. We know. Something is there. That something is called a fetus. The only problem we have is to figure out if this thing is the same as a human for all intents and purposes so we can accord it the same rights.
To me, it is not a human. Your milage may vary. But you have to show the proof.
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Elucidus
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quote:
Originally posted by OzzyKP
I ask you, if there is a possibility of a person hiding in the bushes, would you shoot a gun into it? There might be a person in there, there might not, you don't know. You only have your beliefs. You've got 4 people on your rights yelling "don't shoot! don't shoot! there is a person there, you'll kill him!" you've got 4 people on your left yelling "ah, go ahead, who cares? There isn't anyone there, just a bush, shoot your gun, have fun". You don't really know, so what do you do? |
That is faulty logic. What benefit is there to shoot a gun into a bush? There are benefits to abortion, and beliefs are all we have to go on at this point.
Now as far as the mosquito, I used it because it is more alive of its own accord than the 50 cells growing in the womb after two weeks of pregnancy. A mosquito can live on its own, that 50 cells cannot. In my opinion when a fetus can live on its own, without being physically attach to the mother, is when it becomes human. What is that 6 months at the earliest?
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Elucidus
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So for initially finding out your pregnant if it is before 2 months into it, then abortion is not killing a human being?
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November Adam
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Calgary, AB, Canada
Jul 2001
time: 22:18
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Loinburger do you mind if I wade into the embryo human issue?
I will agree with you that an embryo does have a parsitic relationship with the mother. So what.
As I'm sure you are well aware a biological organism has a life cylce. The human lifecycle starts as an embryo. Regardless of being "alive", or able to live independently, this is how it starts for the species known as homo sapien.
Blood cells, brain cells, and stem cells are NOT human, rather parts of a human. An embryo is a human that at it's state in it's life cycle consists of 1, then 2, then 4, then 8...... cells.
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