09-04-2002 05:50									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: What a surprise, MrFun tried to defend child-abusing bastards just because they happen to be homosexual.

Admit it, this was your aim when you started this thread.

Good troll, indeed!

	09-04-2002 05:58									#62
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Imran, and you notice how Boddington has not responded to me after I told him to reread my argument??

Clearly he twisted my argument around, when he in fact, knew what I meant.

	09-04-2002 06:01									#63
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

He got you upset... so he succeeded very nicely.

	09-04-2002 06:04									#64
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui He got you upset... so he succeeded very nicely.

Yeah, I guess I'm a person with feelings.

But I was surprised with the last argument he made -- he managed to produce an argument that was not overtly offensive, as I stated in my counter-argument.

imagine

	09-04-2002 06:06									#65
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I said he was a troll, not that he was bright .

	09-04-2002 06:08									#66
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I said he was a troll, not that he was bright .

When we find something to agree on, it comes down to this??

	09-04-2002 06:09									#67
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes... now be go and be happy

	09-04-2002 11:59									#68
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia What do you see it as? A "culture"? If you think thats all it is then why dont you expand your cultural horizons by puncturing your eardrums?

Hard to find the right word for it, but I see it as a "way of life".
I hope some one can discuss this matter in a civilized manner.

	09-04-2002 15:13									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Let's agree that what they did is wrong.
So, in order to prevent things like this from happening in the future you need a legislation to prevent certain people from having offspring. I.E. no sex without condom for you, freek!
Why do I think about Nazi Germany

	09-04-2002 15:24									#70
	Support Apolyton

No Vagrant, that 'no sex without a condom' is totally unenforceable. It's forced sterilisation that would be used.



You can tell some people haven't thought this out very thoroughly. All for rights of the individual, and then deal in concepts such as forced sterilisation, which is probably one of the greatest breaches of civil liberties you could imagine.

	09-04-2002 15:28									#71
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison You can tell some people haven't thought this out very thoroughly. All for rights of the individual, and then deal in concepts such as forced sterilisation, which is probably one of the greatest breaches of civil liberties you could imagine.

I'm not saying that what they did was right. However I am conserned about how things like this are gonna be prevented. If they should be prevented...

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

	09-04-2002 15:33									#72
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Perhaps a more mature form of 'designer babies' in the future will be the norm where you can select a large proportion of the genetic makeup of your child, but applied in terms of removing deleterious genes.

	09-04-2002 17:12									#73
	Inflate your Upload Space

yes! like in 'What happened in Gataka'!

*looks at himself*



but yes, I think that this is the right way to go. PH

	09-04-2002 17:19									#74
	Got spare money?

So you are smart, good-looking and have a bad heart Dalgetti? Three suprises at once!

	09-04-2002 17:30									#75
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by -=Vagrant=- Hard to find the right word for it, but I see it as a "way of life". I hope some one can discuss this matter in a civilized manner.

A way of life it may be, but that does not mean that it's not at all disadvantageous. I still say it's cruel to deliberately bring a disabled baby into the world.

And to all you saying that some parents attempt to bring children into the world despite the fact they have a high chance of inheriting genetic disabilities: It's not the same, these people CHOSE the baby BECAUSE it would be deaf, straight parents HOPE their baby will NOT be disable. This couple chose their baby for it's disability, and for no other reason. They don't care weather it will be male or female, tall or short, fat or thin, no, they want it to be deaf. This baby is just a political statement and no human should be brought down to that level.

	09-04-2002 17:43									#76
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I've heard deaf and blind people rage against abortions of children that are likely to get these disabilities. They seem to think of it like the holocaust and that society are trying to destroy them as a group.

It do seems like some so called disabled people have a very different view than the mainstream on issues like this. being deaf or blind is portrayed in the same way as being part of an ethnic group and trying to get rid of deafness and blindness would be like putting the black community into a "Michael Jackson-program".

I find it very strange myself but on the other hand these diablities in many ways are the result of their parents just like the colour of ones skin...

It's real hard to apply consistent moral ideas in reality.

	09-04-2002 18:01									#77
	Support Apolyton

Kropo: yep, that's me ..


they're not a group .

and comparing blacks to blind people is silly ,not to say racist.
Blacks do not suffer from a disadvantage, while deaf people do suffer from one.

	09-04-2002 18:06									#78
	Increase Your PM Length

No, I don't get it either, but those people do claim that (and probably those two blind lesbians are probably included).

Being black is an disadvantage though but that's not in the blackness itself. Being deaf is of cource a more objective disadvantage.

	09-04-2002 18:14									#79
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

this is just another bod troll.
the title speaks for itself......including homosexuals and americans
in the first line of attack. when the topic is really about deaf people wanting to create a deaf baby and the right or wrong of creating disabled people . ... then he barely comments anywhere in the thread on the topic except to relight the fire under someones anger.

	09-04-2002 18:22									#80
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

what's the disadvantage in being black?
and don't tell me discrimination ,because that's not a real disadvantage.

	09-04-2002 18:28									#81
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by -=Vagrant=- Let's agree that what they did is wrong. So, in order to prevent things like this from happening in the future you need a legislation to prevent certain people from having offspring. I.E. no sex without condom for you, freek! Why do I think about Nazi Germany

If someone deliberately has a disabled child, I dont have a problem with sterilizing them and taking the child away.

	09-04-2002 18:34									#82
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by boann this is just another bod troll. the title speaks for itself......including homosexuals and americans in the first line of attack. when the topic is really about deaf people wanting to create a deaf baby and the right or wrong of creating disabled people . ... then he barely comments anywhere in the thread on the topic except to relight the fire under someones anger.

Wait a minute --- you and I agree on something??

	09-04-2002 18:43									#83
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia If someone deliberately has a disabled child, I dont have a problem with sterilizing them and taking the child away.

Is it a crime to have disabled children?

	09-04-2002 18:49									#84
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by -=Vagrant=- Is it a crime to have disabled children?

It is not a crime if you conceive a child without planning to do so with deliberation.

While I would not nessarily classify it as a crime to deliberately conceive a child with a disability, it is still done in extreme poor taste, and those to-be parents might have their thoughts skewed in some way.

Now adopting a disabled child is a completely different matter. When one adopts a disabled child, they are doing a very good thing, in that they are planning to care for a child very few people would likely want to adopt.

	09-04-2002 18:52									#85
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by -=Vagrant=- Is it a crime to have disabled children?

No, but it should be a crime to intentionally have disabled children.

	09-04-2002 19:24									#86
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia No, but it should be a crime to intentionally have disabled children.

Because it is morally wrong? Has a case like this ever been on trial? Yes I'm a skeptic, and ask a lot of questions, but only because Boddy didn't give any reasons for his "they should be imprisoned" comment.

	09-04-2002 19:33									#87
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Through all the years of my practice I've known several people who deliberately gave their children a disability. They go from doctor to doctor until they find someone willing to sign the papers.

	09-04-2002 19:38									#88
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by -=Vagrant=- Because it is morally wrong? Has a case like this ever been on trial? Yes I'm a skeptic, and ask a lot of questions, but only because Boddy didn't give any reasons for his "they should be imprisoned" comment.

Well if you start looking at disabled people as being groups that should be intentionally preserved then how will we ever eradicate disabilities? I dont think these women should be imprisoned, but I do think they should be sterilzed and have the child taken away.

	09-04-2002 20:06									#89
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti what's the disadvantage in being black? and don't tell me discrimination ,because that's not a real disadvantage.

Well, that's what I'm saying! It's a disadvantage even if you like to think of it as "real" or not.

	09-04-2002 21:14									#90
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Both the women are deaf, right? And the "father" was a friend of the family..., not some random deaf person. In what way is this worse than a caucasian woman going to a sperm bank and requesting sperm from a caucasian man?

Now don't get me wrong, this whole thing disturbs me as well, but being deaf is not that great a disability and as long as it grows up in loving and caring environment I don't see that big a problem.

As a sidenote, yes i believe that if it's possible all deleterious mutations should be removed from the genepool, but not by selective breeding, which is what some of you suggest. We're not farm animals..