04-05-2002 02:38									#151
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To answer some of your questions Darius:

quote: What has the decision been on Spain?

The decition was made after negotiations between Britian and France. This picture shows what we agreed on:

quote: Who are active members of the League of Nations?

Every country except Russia, that pulled out of the League recently.

quote: I notice that I am in control of Libya. How was this aquired from the Turks, by payment? We obviously aren't at war.

French intelligence can tell you that it was bought from The Ottoman Empire.

quote: what is the current situation on the German proposal? Specifically, a list of those who have directly agreed to it.

Ottoman Empire, Italy and Germany has agreed to the proposal.

-Sas-

	04-05-2002 03:45									#152
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Have you DLed some of the files in this thread? Once you get those, it should be enough. Though there might be others...

	04-05-2002 04:53									#153
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Thanks sas, that's all I need to know. Also, if anyone has made any sort of private agreements with soundwave, PM me anytime (except for sas; he already did).

My first order of business:

Aw, crap. I wrote an artfully convincing proposal of about 500 words about ten minutes ago, and then my brother kicked me off to check his mail and didn't warn me!


After pummeling him repeatedly, I came back here and I'm far too embittered to write the whole damn thing again. The far less persuasive gist of it is that I (not as the SG, but as the leader of Austria-Hungary) am appalled by how ignored Italy has been in both the Spanish and Cretan controversies. They had no say whatsoever, and no power in Europe deserves such an injustice. Therefore I offer the following summed-up proposal:

1) The Italians are allowed complete control of all three of the major Belearic Islands, and have the right to build fortresses there for their garrisons.

2) Like my predecessor, I agree that a Franco-British domination of Spain is preferable, because their modernity and democracy is in the best interests of the Spanish people. I also agree that Italy has no direct historical claim to Spain. However, Italy still is the second-nearest power to Spain and it is a good idea to have another European presence in the country if only to check the power of Britain and France there. I do not even directly demand, but I rather only suggest that France, in good conscience, try to make up for her misdeeds by ceding Italy Valencia, a demand that is after all smaller than the Italians wanted in the first place.

3) Although Italy has no direct historical tie to Spain, Cyrion is correct that indeed they do have one to Crete. Britain is to immediately cede it to Italy as soon as an administrative force can arrive there.


I need the opinions of Italy, France, and Britain on this proposal. These demands are very small, and I can't see why they would be much of a problem, considering that they are far, far less than even the Italians wanted. I am not prepared to go to war agianst those who refuse this proposal. However, I am willing to enact strict economic embargoes on those countries, as well as just having a generally negative attitude toward them. That is insignificant at first, but even just a small negative alignment can be morphed into an enemy by a future unrelated conflict.

Regardless, consider this not a military threat which results in an acquisition of land. Rather consider it, as I do, as an opportunity to redeem yourselves for the wholly unjust treatment of your kind neighbor Italy.

On other matters, I agree to the German proposal.

Also:

quote: Have you DLed some of the files in this thread? Once you get those, it should be enough. Though there might be others...

That's the problem. I thought maybe the .scn was changed as well, but I'll assume not and use the posted files. So that problem's solved.

Here are screenshots of what I envision:

	04-05-2002 04:58									#154
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Just look how little you guys lose, and how much you get! This really isn't a big deal:

Attachment: thing2.gif
This has been downloaded 215 time(s).

Last edited by Darius871 on 04-05-2002 at 05:12

	04-05-2002 06:20									#155
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Although Spain is a Hapsburg Country, we of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, think its better not to stretch our resources when Britian and France are closer and can continue Spanish well being.

It's a Bourbon country.
* St Leo ducks

	04-05-2002 08:05									#156
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First I would like to mention that the SG has acknowledged all of our aquisitions and given his blessing.

Second, as for the Balearic Islands and Valencia, I will not come to a decision until the SG comes back.

Third, I will not cede Crete as it has routes to the Greek people that I have liberated and it has been disenfranchised from Italy as they lost control long ago to the Ottomans.

Any force trying to enter Cretan waters or land on Crete will be warned and then if not moved, will be attacked.

	04-05-2002 09:00									#157
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quote: Although Spain is a Hapsburg Country

quote: It's a Bourbon country.

Note that my predecessor said that, not I, and I agree that at this point Spain does not have enough of a historical tie to the country to make it a pivotal argument.

quote: I will not cede Crete as it has routes to the Greek people

Come on. I understand that opinion, but a strategic link to Greece there should not seem important in a time of peace. An Italian Crete can pose no threat to your influence there since it will not be destroying anything. And if somehow, somewhere, you were at war with Italy, your awe-inspiring naval power would inevitably both protect your shipping and also allow you to take Crete easily.

On points one and 2, there is a problem about the Secretary General:

quote: I will be leaving for a while, the account will remain active, so i'll be back here i hope anywhere from 2 weeks, to 6 months

I had assumed as the leader of the Austro-Hungarians I would assume Soundwave's position as SG, and therefore his opinions on past matters could be changed until he is back. I already consider the former SG's opinion nil, but if the others disagree, then I suppose we shall have another vote on the SG.

Also, I haven't been able to speak to Cyrion yet, but assuming he's willing would you accept money and units for some or all of the conditions?

	04-05-2002 15:15									#158
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To clear up the Secretary Generals proposition:

After a series of secret talks with the leader of Italy, we came to an agreement about Spain. Italy was not left in the dark so to speak. France wanted a continued good relations with Italy.

French and Italian diplomats discussed the "Spanish Issue" at some lenghts and struck a deal. This deal have been kept a secret, but now France feels it is in the interest of Italy and France to make the deal public. So there is really not nessesary to talk about this matter any further.

The agreement in short:
--------------
" France has been willing to make a compensation for the lack of any Italian cities in Spain. France have payed 400 in cash and gifted one Destroyer."
----------------

-Pierre Rosseau-

Last edited by sas on 05-05-2002 at 10:34

	05-05-2002 11:59									#159
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Wow, that was a good deal for Italy. I couldn't understand how Valencia could have been that valuable to you, sas, but I suppose that settles the issue. This brings the realization that in private France has been civil, and I commend it. As for Crete, I don't think it is pivotal enough of a posession to argue about. If Italy is willing to offer Britain money for the island she can anytime, but that will be their business.

I am just glad that Italy has not been as ignored as they had seemed when the Spanish contoversy came about. Let it be known that both as the Austro-Hungarian and SG that in any other situation I will do my best to speak in suppot of anyone else who can claim an aggrieved status in troubles of the future.

	07-05-2002 00:54									#160
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make your move Scott !

	07-05-2002 03:59									#161
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I am waiting for responses from various PMs and emails.

	07-05-2002 07:09									#162
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I'm back!!!

Hi to all, i hope you dont mind, but we i get in my new house can i have my civs back, from the pbems that i was in....

Thanks Cyrion.

Also Aussie/Brisbane is great its summer all round, and i have been at the beach all the time and going to all the theme parks, like a real tourist!

But i will be in the new house in a week, so carry on till then Darius! And thanks!

(btw i'm so happy to be back, normal life was getting kinda boring! )

	07-05-2002 07:20									#163
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Good. It's kind of hard to get into a game when so much has happened already. Still hope to get a few turns in though, still waiting on scott.

	07-05-2002 20:07									#164
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Scott ....

I know you're waiting for some PMs, but this delay is getting way too long now.

Please make your move...

	07-05-2002 22:25									#165
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First of all, thanks to Darius: your concern about the fate of the Italian Nation has been really appreciated!!

If only your predecessor had been so perceptive (read that, Soundwave ?? ), the situation would have been much easier for Italy!!

But the French PM, the remarkable Monsieur Rosseau (always wondered about that name: at first I thought it was Rousseau!!), has been really comprehensive and fair and laid the first stones for an eternal Friendship between France and Italy.

As for the relations with Great-Britain, they might be not exactly cordial right now, but there is no bad feelings from Italy towards them!!

So thanks again Darius!! and I hope to play with you in the next few turns (BTW, I'm sure Soundwave hasn't got a connexion yet, because we haven't read the traditionnal "XXX, your turn..." yet... ) or in other games!!!


And then, welcome back Soundwave!! So it seems the "drop-bears" haven't eaten you yet... And you haven't been run over by a drunken Queenslander... (oups, I might get into trouble with somme of the Aussies... that is, only those from THAT State...).

As you noticed, I have been too lazy to try to correct all your management mistakes in the pbems ( ) and left that mighty task to other "brave souls"...

	07-05-2002 22:30									#166
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Sorry guys, but from tomorrow evening I won't have access to a computer till Monday evening next week!!

So, if my turn comes before, IF you really can't wait until I come back, just let the AI play it...

But of course I would prefer to play it myself as soon as I come back!!!

So, if you have to wait because of it, sorry... (well, actually I'm not THAT sorry, because I'm off to Scotland to taste a few whiskies and pints of bitter... )

	08-05-2002 02:40									#167
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Thanks for the appreciation, but it still didn't really get anywhere. Just trying to make a few crookeds straight, to show that I am willing to continue to do so in any future dispute.

You sure you want the AI to play, though? If you're surely not able to play the turn, you should at least have a neutral human player so your production doesn't get all screwed up and you don't find a bunch of units jammed in some innavigable mountains.

	08-05-2002 03:09									#168
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Darius: you are right, it's better if the AI is not allowed to play...

But I hope the game won't be too fast and that my turn won't come before I turn back (actually it's only 5 days... )

	08-05-2002 03:22									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Soundwave Also Aussie/Brisbane is great its summer all round, and i have been at the beach all the time and going to all the theme parks, like a real tourist!

It's snowing here today, so there

	08-05-2002 04:03									#170
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Italy: No hard feelings either: we just want Crete

	08-05-2002 04:36									#171
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quote: we just want Crete

Yes, but you don't need it!

Jimmy, it's been snowing here too

	08-05-2002 05:09									#172
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Well, i would like Darius to continue for a while as AH President, king, Prime minister what ever... but i wanna hold the S-G title as i have a say, but dont have to do turns, and since i'm doing all this from a library computer... i was lucky to sign on. I think Cyrion, Italy is a great nation, where did you get the idea i didn't think that or was exluding you, and i was going to sell you Libya as well.... but thats in the open now.

Also... the Aussies have funny Beer... (tastes like XXXX)

	08-05-2002 05:15									#173
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You want Libya, Cyrion?

	08-05-2002 05:19									#174
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He does, but i was going to SELL it to him

	08-05-2002 05:23									#175
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well of course. Cyrion, next time your on tell me how much is in your treasury, and I can figure a fair price.

BTW since you're around this thread, soundwave, thought I'd remind you to send Evil Overlord your password for Canada in the American Empire game. It wasn't leanne like we thought.

	08-05-2002 05:24									#176
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Buggar.. ok

	08-05-2002 09:22									#177
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quote: Originally posted by sas Scott .... I know you're waiting for some PMs, but this delay is getting way too long now. Please make your move...

You in a hurry for some specific reason?

So who exactly has Austria now? Soundwave or Darius or who?

	08-05-2002 10:38									#178
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Soundwave has access to a computer, so he can read and reply, but he can't play out turns. So, for now, I am playing the A-H civ, but he will be the SG since he is still able to communicate.

I agree with sas. And if anyone's taken this long to respond to your PM's, then remind them with another PM or something.

	08-05-2002 11:03									#179
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I am waiting on Russia and on Soundwave.

	08-05-2002 16:38									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Soundwave Also... the Aussies have funny Beer... (tastes like XXXX)

That reminds me of an old joke:

Q: Why is Queensland's main brand of beer called XXXX?

A: Because they can't spell beer