10-04-2002 23:46									#1
	Europe Heard From Tired of ads?

Here's an excerpt of an interesting op-ed article that I saw in my local paper today:

quote: The Israelis must be winning their war in terror. Because the Europeans, after easily tolerating 18 months of violence against Israeli civilians, complete with suicide bombings and shooting sprees, have suddenly offered to intercede. It's a familiar pattern going back at least to the Yom Kippur War of 1973, when the international community was struck by the necessity of mediating the conflict as soon as General Sharon's tanks turned up across the Suez and within striking distance of Cairo. Clearly something had to be done. Once again the Europeans have decided it's up to them to make peace. The same way they did in the Balkans, no doubt, back in the '90s. Europe's pious ditherers let Bosnia simmer in blood for years before America finally, finally intervened. And not till the United States took the leading role was Slobodan Milosevic's sordid little war in Kosovo stopped. Doubtless one of the same experienced U.N. peacekeepers who presided over Srebrenica and such massacres, like the distinguished Kofi Annan, can be called on now to work with his fellow Nobel laureate, Yasser Arafat, to bring the same kind of peace to the Mideast. Where is Boutros Boutros-Gali when you need him? There was the name of a U.N. secretary-general to conjure with. There are times when one wonders how long even European diplomats can keep a straight face as they produce this theater of the absurd. Once again Europe's synagogues are burning, cemeteries are desecrated, there's a feel of Kristallnacht in the air, and what is the response of the European Community? Having been one of the more faithful suppliers of money and support for Yasser Arafat's terrorist network all these years, the EC now has stepped forward to bring peace to the Middle East, a la Srebrenica. Well, why not? Europe has expertise in this area. It solved its Jewish Problem years ago, nicht wahr? The more Europe changes, the more it stays the 1930s.

Here's a link to an online version of the article in case anyone wants to read the rest of it: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/...g20020409.shtml

	10-04-2002 23:48									#2
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you'll be very easy to bring down if your so stupid

	10-04-2002 23:55									#3
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Actually, I hope that anti semitic attacks will continue and even intensify in Europe.

	10-04-2002 23:56									#4
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They are not exactly anti-semitic. More like anti-militaristic you know.

Oh, and of course non of those in Greece. I must point that.
We are another Europe.

	10-04-2002 23:56									#5
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 you'll be very easy to bring down if your so stupid

Thats right you supported the Balkan wars right

	10-04-2002 23:57									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Thats right you supported the Balkan wars right

which ones

	11-04-2002 00:01									#7
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...deast_protest_1

quote: Anti-war demonstrators stage open-air concert against Israeli attacks Wed Apr 10, 2:19 PM ET ATHENS, Greece - Several thousand demonstrators waving Palestinian flags attended an open-air concert in central Athens Wednesday to condemn Israeli military attacks in Palestinian areas. Popular Greek singers performed in the downtown Syntagma Square, as the crowd largely made up of students and members of a local Palestinian community chanted anti-Israeli slogans. "No peace without Palestine," one protest banner read. Others targeted Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites). "We are enraged. The massacre must stop. The war crimes must stop. The world must stop Sharon," said Christos Polyzogopoulos, head of Greece's largest trade union group that helped organize the concert. Some demonstrators wore red headbands bearing the word "Intifada" or Palestinian uprising, and divers taped posters of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) to their bonnet. Greece has traditionally close ties with Arab nations and Israel's ongoing military crackdown has prompted near daily demonstrations here. On Sunday, Greece's Orthodox church held services throughout the country to pray for peace in the Middle East.

Paiktis: Have there been any rallys calling for the Pals. to stop their killing of Israelies at nighclubs and pizza places?

	11-04-2002 00:02									#8
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all the time, my friend, all the time. they wouldn't listen. now it's for Israel to prove they're better.

	11-04-2002 00:02									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Paiktis: Have there been any rallys calling for the Pals. to stop their killing of Israelies at nighclubs and pizza places?

Europe supports those actions as valid ways to go about "national liberation."

	11-04-2002 00:03									#10
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the alternative would be 1914 borders. I'd be for it, who's with me?

IIRC, the US supported that idea in Europe, on the expense of many German people. innocent ones.

	11-04-2002 00:04									#11
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 which ones

There have been quite a few I suppose.

	11-04-2002 00:07									#12
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 They are not exactly anti-semitic. More like anti-militaristic you know.

Yes, synagogues and cemeteries have always been military symbols.

Care to take another shot, since this little bit of BS by you smells so bad?

	11-04-2002 00:09									#13
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Europe supports those actions as valid ways to go about "national liberation."

Of course not, and you know that.

	11-04-2002 00:16									#14
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Once again Europe's synagogues are burning, cemeteries are desecrated, there's a feel of Kristallnacht in the air, and what is the response of the European Community? Having been one of the more faithful suppliers of money and support for Yasser Arafat's terrorist network all these years, the EC now has stepped forward to bring peace to the Middle East, a la Srebrenica. Well, why not? Europe has expertise in this area. It solved its Jewish Problem years ago, nicht wahr? The more Europe changes, the more it stays the 1930s.

BTW, the article has some interesting points, but this "Kristallnacht" thing is nonsense, also the EU support for the terrorist network.

	11-04-2002 00:28									#15
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro BTW, the article has some interesting points, but this "Kristallnacht" thing is nonsense, also the EU support for the terrorist network.

The documents seized in the Mukataa in Rammalah show that Yasser Arafat and the PA were directly sponsoring Fatah groups, knowing that the launched and will launch suicide bombers to the Israeli cities.
The EU provides plenty of money to the PA.

	11-04-2002 00:35									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Eli The documents seized in the Mukataa in Rammalah show that Yasser Arafat and the PA were directly sponsoring Fatah groups, knowing that the launched and will launch suicide bombers to the Israeli cities. The EU provides plenty of money to the PA.

And exactly that money from the EU was used by Arafat to support the Fatah?

	11-04-2002 00:44									#17
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Wasn't there a big mess a year or so ago about the EU finding out that their money was being used to print up Anti-jewish textbooks in the West Bank and Gaza?

	11-04-2002 00:47									#18
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Well, I don´t know, but this would be indeed a mess.

My point is, the article gives the reader the impression that the EU does intentionally support Palestinian terror against Israel, and this is not the case.

	11-04-2002 00:52									#19
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BTW, if I remember correctly the EU is also the first trading partner and major economic, scientific and research partner of Israel, so let´s hope the Arabs don´t accuse Europe of sponsoring Israel´s military by that

	11-04-2002 00:57									#20
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro BTW, the article has some interesting points, but this "Kristallnacht" thing is nonsense, also the EU support for the terrorist network.

"EU" support is semantically incorrect, but France and Italy in the 1970's and 1980's at least (I'm not current on the info as to how long the practice went on) had a policy of deliberately looking the other way at Abu Nidal, Abu Abbas, Hamas, al Fatah, and Hisbollah operatives moving through their countries and operating safe houses, etc.

There was some degree of understanding that safe transit and a "hands off" (despite InterPol alerts, positive ID, etc.) approach would be "compensated" with a quid pro quo not to pursue targets or commit hard crimes (operations, not conspiracy) within those nations.

The leftist Greek governments of the time were also up to their neck in it -

	11-04-2002 01:04									#21
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After some search the only source I could come up with that isn't too biased either way is one CNN article

http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/meast...schoolbooks.ap/

It only mentions that the textbooks went from very anti-jewish statments since they were old Jordanian and Egypian books to not mentioning Israel at all in the newer ones.

I could have sworn that I heard a report on tv that the EU had sent people to investigate and that changes were recommended.


Bebro: I don't think that Europe necessary supports the terror organizations directly. I do think that the EU chooses to overlook the Pal attacks on Israel and concentrates on the Israelie responses. This is what infuriates most people. It's like we are watching two different dramas being played out here. I'm not talking about you personaly but Europe in general. I for one think both sides are neck deep in guilt and blame, but since others choose to ingnore pal terrorism I end up looking like an Israelie supporter. And in a sense I have become one because I no longer believe that most of the Pal want peace.

	11-04-2002 01:13									#22
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May seem a silly question, but what does Europe gain if it does conciously or unconsciously support the Palestinians? If there is no benefit why would they support them?

If you look at the IRA sponsorship in America, mainly in Boston, there was no tangible benefit for the sponsors, but they did it because they claimed they were all Irish and so were helping their own. What would Europe's motivation be in helping the Palestinians?

Incidentally I heard some bloke on C-SPAN a couple of days ago claiming it was because Europe sees Israel as an extension of America, and Europeans are 'pro' any group that is anti-US - hence pro Palestinian.

	11-04-2002 02:02									#23
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Ah, good old europe.

As a russian comentator said, "Europe is ready to bravely and heroically face with the extinction of Israel and Israelis."

	11-04-2002 02:04									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Bebro: I don't think that Europe necessary supports the terror organizations directly. I do think that the EU chooses to overlook the Pal attacks on Israel and concentrates on the Israelie responses. This is what infuriates most people. It's like we are watching two different dramas being played out here. I'm not talking about you personaly but Europe in general. I for one think both sides are neck deep in guilt and blame, but since others choose to ingnore pal terrorism I end up looking like an Israelie supporter. And in a sense I have become one because I no longer believe that most of the Pal want peace.

To be honest, also my respect for the Palestinians is gone to the biggest part after the wave of terracts, esp. during the last time, so I can understand Israels reaction absolutely. However, I don´t believe only military actions alone will end the terror...

	11-04-2002 02:53									#25
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Town Hall? Man, they get even less respect than Newsmax

	11-04-2002 02:56									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie Town Hall? Man, they get even less respect than Newsmax

So sue me. That was the first place I saw the article posted on the net.

It isn't like he works for them or anything.

	11-04-2002 03:06									#27
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quote: However, I don´t believe only military actions alone will end the terror...

No one claims it will end the terror or solve it.

Sharon himself said that this won't solve anything and there has to be, and will be a peace process in the end of it. The media chose to ignore it though.

This action, again, is not meant at "curing" terror.

It is meant to:

1) Uproot current terror foundations.
Sure, new terror will evolve, but there's no reason to leave it with a dowry of thousands of ready bombs and expert engineers and planners.

2) Prove Israel means bussiness.
Ever since Israel withdrew from Lebanon, the Arab world has viewed it as Israel's weakness, and thought that it could be exploited and Israelis will fold under terror.
This action will show Israel is not dead yet, and can and will do many many bad things to those who harm it.

3) Show there can be no gain from terror.
Terracts do not aid the peace process in any way. Arafat thinks they help "soften" the Israelis. We're there to prove him wrong, and that there will no gain from terror.


This action is supported by a large scale of people - as a temporary mid term problem solver.

We absolutely can't ignore the terracts any longer.

	11-04-2002 03:11									#28
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quote: Sharon himself said that this won't solve anything and there has to be, and will be a peace process in the end of it.

Yes, like the Treaty of Versailles

	11-04-2002 11:01									#29
	Europe is heard from, yet again Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: EU Parliament votes for sanctions against Israel By Herb Keinon JERUSALEM (April 11) - The European Parliament's declarative resolution yesterday to slap trade sanctions on Israel is a direct response to Israel's refusal to let EU heads meet with Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat, European and Israeli diplomatic officials said yesterday. The European Parliament in Strasbourg passed a 14-point resolution calling for a suspension of the Israel-EU association agreement, effectively calling for economic sanctions against Israel. The EU-Israel Association agreement is the legal framework governing Israel's relations with the EU, and includes an economic section that grants Israel preferential trade status with the EU. Ambassador Gincarlo Chevallard, the European Commission's representative in Israel, said there is a direct link between this resolution and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's refusal last week to let EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana and Spanish Foreign Minister Josep Pique meet with Arafat, although a day latter US envoy Anthony Zinni was allowed to do so. Chevallard said the calls to suspend the agreement reflect "the anger of a large part of European opinion, and the political class, to this treatment of the EU, and what is seen as cheap humiliation." "The political class did not accept that we were not allowed to see Arafat, but the Americans were," he said. On a practical level, the resolution will have little impact. It is the European Council, and not the parliament, that makes and breaks agreements. In order for the agreement to be suspended, the European Commission would have to make a concrete proposal, which would then need to be agreed upon by the foreign ministers of all 15 EU states. Both Chevallard and Foreign Ministry officials believe this is highly unlikely. One ministry official said Germany, Britain, Holland, and Denmark would likely not approve the proposal. At the same time, the resolution will provide momentum to the growing number of those in Europe calling for economic sanctions to protest the current military operation. Chevallard said the commission does not have any intention of making a proposal at this time to suspend the association agreement. "It would not serve any purpose," he said. "We need to maintain dialogue with Israel, not antagonize it." In addition to the clause dealing with the association agreement, the resolution - which passed by a vote of 269-208, also calls for an arms embargo against "Israel and Palestine." The resolution - which condemns suicide bombings - also condemns the "military escalation pursued by the Sharon government," and the "oppression of the Palestinian civilian population by the Israeli army." Victor Harel, head of the Foreign Ministry's Western Europe department, said the resolution is "mistaken" and "one-sided," and will only serve to distance Europe further from an active role in the diplomatic process. "We are disappointed by this and regret it," Harel said. "It sends a very negative message." At the same time, Harel said since the resolution did not pass by a sweeping margin, it indicates Europe is divided when it comes to the Middle East. The ministry's Jackie Eldan, whose portfolio is European institutions, said the parliament is viewed by EU leaders as a bellwether of public opinion, and this vote sends a message that, despite the widespread public perception, European opinion is divided on how to view the current crisis.

http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/...News.46716.html

	11-04-2002 11:28									#30
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Good job EU Parliament!