30-07-2002 21:39									#332
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Oh I agree J. I bet no system can remove a winner... Lung would have to keep losing in order for that to happen. Conversely so would everyone else. I have read quite a bit about these ranking systems. I see that no one has elliminated the Klair situation. What I did read was with certain systems it is harder and less likely to happen. So which was the best system and who used it and for what reason was the next research.

This type pf wager system came out on top for gamers. One of the main reasons was less rules to make it work. The next reason was they could focus on rules that enhanced the game (positive ones) than negative rules.

This opened the door for gaming with "luck" as a factor to make the system more fair for newbies. I like that part, plus the fact a winner no matter who, was the main focus of the system. Not what you lose but what you gain. This opens the door for play with any ranked player VS. picking the players to enhance your chance of taking top dog.

A classic example of the old system (based on the ELO) is Kasparov who is not only a master at chess but a master at the ELO system. Most believe he is not the top dog. Most do agree however he is the master at manipulating the system in order to stay top dog.

Last edited by blackice on 30-07-2002 at 22:03

	30-07-2002 22:55									#333
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quote: Originally posted by blackice A classic example of the old system (based on the ELO) is Kasparov who is not only a master at chess but a master at the ELO system. Most believe he is not the top dog. Most do agree however he is the master at manipulating the system in order to stay top dog...

This is a classic example of flame bait

If not Kasparov, who in your opinion, is the top dog?

Perhaps, any of the other GMs who've not won as many elite tournaments as Kasparov has? Or what about any of the others who can't stop griping about Kasparov, but have nothing to show for when it comes to playing chess... See, it's so easy to talk the talk...

Sorry I had to bite the bait

	30-07-2002 23:08									#334
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quote: Originally posted by jpww If not Kasparov, who in your opinion, is the top dog?

Why, Deep Blue of course .

	30-07-2002 23:44									#335
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Kasparov Jp picks his own opponents and approves the rules. There are several GM he refuses to play. You should read more about the subject.

	31-07-2002 00:06									#336
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Kasparov Jp picks his own opponents and approves the rules. There are several GM he refuses to play. You should read more about the subject.

Blackice, there is no need to make fool of yourselves about Kasparov subject. He's top dog because he's the best. And he is proving that all the time against all best players. ELO system simply can not be manipulated. Obviously only manipulation with ELO system is yours.

	31-07-2002 01:13									#337
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Ok...

Last edited by blackice on 02-08-2002 at 12:37

	31-07-2002 01:54									#338
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I thought we were going to quit bickering? Ummf...

	31-07-2002 02:09									#339
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Kasparov Jp picks his own opponents and approves the rules. There are several GM he refuses to play. You should read more about the subject.

Maybe you should stop being so gullible

Anyway, I'm nearly a chess master and I've played against Kasparov in two simuls. You didn't know this, of course. But you are so full of it, I had to bring it up

	31-07-2002 02:11									#340
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We have at least you and I agreed I guess kralj is not done yet?

Cxr is nice too still has flaws but a great online calculator

http://www.chess-express.com/calctest.html?

	31-07-2002 02:13									#341
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quote: Originally posted by J Bytheway Why, Deep Blue of course .

Surely DB feels very proud of beating Kasparov!

Did I say feel?

	31-07-2002 02:14									#342
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quote: Maybe you should stop being so gullible

Yes I guess all those news reports and articles are just bunk because Jp said so. Speaking of gullible. Hey Jp post some links some facts I would like to read them. I have an open mind unlike some people of course it could be BS. I'll wait and see your "proof" of your claims.

Which ranking system do you go by JP. What is your ranking? What league are you in?

	31-07-2002 02:39									#343
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quote: Originally posted by blackice quote: Maybe you should stop being so gullible Yes I guess all those news reports and articles are just bunk because Jp said so. Speaking of gullible. Hey Jp post some links some facts I would like to read them. I have an open mind unlike some people of course it could be BS. I'll wait and see your "proof" of your claims. Which ranking system do you go by JP. What is your ranking? What league are you in?

What and give away my beloved anonymity?

BTW, you are quoting an old source. It must be old because there is a chess reunification process underway. These are some of the key players that took part in the talks to make it happen: The Einstein Group, Yasser Seirawan, Gary Kasparov, Vladimir Kramnik, Ruslam Ponomariov, Kirslan llyumzhinov and Anatoli Karpov.

You probably don't recognize half the names on the list, which I think is hilarious Look them up if you wish

	31-07-2002 02:50									#344
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quote: You probably don't recognize half the names on the list, which I think is hilarious

I did not think so more BS from JP. You are getting quite the reputation... What is funny JP are moronic statements like yours above. First you assume then you laugh at your assuption as you then believe it to be true.
They put people in new white jackets for less.

The link I provided mentions the reunification JP.

Another one that can not read or is too stuck in his own "I know it all I am king" to expand his knowledge.

	31-07-2002 04:01									#345
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I don't know it all but I'm fairly sure you don't know jack about chess!!!

	31-07-2002 04:06									#346
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You don't know jack about what I know! That would be the best way to say it JP.

Ok Ok a test Jp what am I thinking right now?
Ok mister esp come on tell me

What an idiot Nice try Jp

Hey where are all your links to your information JP?
You just keep expanding on that reputation of yours don't you

Last edited by blackice on 31-07-2002 at 04:13

	31-07-2002 06:59									#347
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JPPW, (off topic)

Are you on the ICC (Internet Chess Club)? I have a standard rating of 1835 there as "quinns". Now you now how bad I really am! ( I am pleased with a "B" rating though ). If you are nearly a master, you must be rated 2100 or better. That's damn good. The best I did was play in the Pacific Open (I think that was it) in Pasadena, CA in 1985 or something like that. Anyway, the best players there were Larry Christianson and Ivanov. I was rated 1537 at the time and got put into the OPEN division with Christianson and Ivanov .... shi**!! I was the lowest rated player in the open division -- my claim to fame I gave a 2050 player a run for his money though. He was sweating bad, but then outplayed me in his last 7 moves with only 30 seconds remaining on his clock for those moves!!! DAMN!

	31-07-2002 07:07									#348
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I am amazed how folks can take a topic off the beaten path, and not get banned, lets FOCUS on the topic, I mean, I got banned and dont want anyone else too either!!

Lets discuss Chess in the OT or MP Cafe CTP version.
Now, back to the rankings issue please.

Troll

Attachment: tut.gif
This has been downloaded 29 time(s).

	31-07-2002 07:26									#349
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You are no fun at all Troll. Ummm... What exactly was the topic again?

	31-07-2002 09:06									#350
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Good job quinn Quite impressive. Oh and BTW congrats on the new child! I wish the best for you and yours and a very healthy baby

I think we are getting too old for kids...na more the merrier

	31-07-2002 11:36									#351
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Your kind of person Kralj seems so. Not only do you lose bad but you quit every game we were in. In fact you quit every game you were losing

You beat me in ONE game LAST year, because I trusted your LIES, true.
But it was YOU who "quit every game we were in"! I'm still playing all those games and enjoy in them.
Obviously your standard misleading strategy.

If you realy wish to learn something abot ELO, go to the basics.

Basics in Chess Ratings

	31-07-2002 11:41									#352
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Last edited by blackice on 02-08-2002 at 12:36

	31-07-2002 17:59									#353
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quote: Originally posted by quinns JPPW, (off topic)

quote: He was sweating bad, but then outplayed me in his last 7 moves with only 30 seconds remaining on his clock for those moves!!! DAMN!

You must've been in terrible time trouble yourself

quote: ... the best players there were Larry Christianson and Ivanov.

Nowadays, Christiansen is not very active although he just played a couple of tournaments in Asia. I like his style. I have a book of his in my collection: "Storming the barricades" have you read it? I recommend it; it is highly entertaining. I especially like his analysis on Kasparov vs Topalov (Wijk aan zee 1999)

quote: The best I did was play in the Pacific Open (I think that was it) in Pasadena, CA in 1985 or something like that.

1985! I was playing in the under 10 division then

quote: Are you on the ICC

No I'm not a member, but I hear it's a great place to play chess online. Perhaps, I'll look you up some day (when they're offering free membership and we'll play some blitz or bullet. The truth is I prefer OTB games

quote: I have a standard rating of 1835 there as "quinns". Now you now how bad I really am!

Not too shabby!

	31-07-2002 19:06									#354
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Good job quinn Quite impressive. Oh and BTW congrats on the new child! I wish the best for you and yours and a very healthy baby I think we are getting too old for kids...na more the merrier

Thanks! Me? Too old for kids? NO WAY! I'm only 45! Groucho Marx was having kids at 70! "That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard."

	31-07-2002 19:17									#355
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quote: Originally posted by jpww You must've been in terrible time trouble yourself

I had 30 minutes left!! That's what really made me upset with myself. I moved fast trying to force it ... STUPID!

quote: Nowadays, Christiansen is not very active although he just played a couple of tournaments in Asia. I like his style. I have a book of his in my collection: "Storming the barricades" have you read it? I recommend it; it is highly entertaining. I especially like his analysis on Kasparov vs Topalov (Wijk aan zee 1999)

Never read it. But I should. I am basically a neophyte when it comes to Chess. I should read much more.

quote: 1985! I was playing in the under 10 division then

Just a babe! So much for your anonymity JPWW... You must be about 26 years old! And your bank account number is...?

quote: No I'm not a member, but I hear it's a great place to play chess online. Perhaps, I'll look you up some day (when they're offering free membership and we'll play some blitz or bullet. The truth is I prefer OTB games Not too shabby!

Thanks... but still pretty shabby though... I've been playing for about 35 years... and I still, pretty much, suck! If you like to play sometime though, I'd be happy to take a lesson from you!

	01-08-2002 06:50									#356
	New & wanting a rating Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I am new here and want to be a part of this. I really don't fully understand what I am reading sometimes, but I'll keep trying. Each time I read the instructions I have new questions, but you guys are doing fine, not complaining. It said in the Info Central posting to post here to get a rating and get to know ya'll (yes I am from Texas) better. Tell me what I need to do next, Please.

Ken

	01-08-2002 13:29									#357
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Hi Ken.

1st this thread has been replaced with this one , so go there to check that out.

However, what you really need to is register your interest at The Recruitment Centre .

Good luck, and see you on the playing field.

	17-09-2002 10:41									#358
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Just following Solver's suggestion to post here to
enter the rating system.

	17-09-2002 13:18									#359
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checkMate, see my last post (directly above yours) for the location of the current PBEM rankings thread.

	16-12-2002 22:52									#360
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Everyone has a score, when a rated turn comes in every player has 10% taken from his score and added together, so with 3 players on 21 points each they each have 2.1 points taken off there scores, they now have 18.9 points, the 2.1 for each player is added together 2.1+2.1+2.1=6.3 And then the formula is applied to see who gets what..

if i got this right,
it means the longer the game runs the more your score is increased/diminished if the game is running good/bad for you. so over time your score converges in a certain direction. this would make it most efficient to drop out of a game if it starts going badly.

is this fair ?

okay, i know. constructive alternatives.
here is one. (or so i hope)
every player stakes the 10% of his actual score only when the game BEGINS. they get it right back at that point, cause the game just started and everyone is equal.
so you have to keep track of how many points which player anted in which game.
each time the calculation comes around, players get their score that is currently associated with this particular game decucted, recalculated and added to their rankings.

this way you won't have a cumulative effect if the game lasts longer .. if that is what you wish for.

also, you could weight the initial ante (10%) according to the importance of the game, just in case some are regarded more important than others.

oh, and the 9th turn racing wouldnt really be necessary cause the 9th difference would be counted only once and you can still console you that next 10th turn you'd be better off.
you wouldnt actually LOSE points again and again every 10th turn if those turns were always running bad for now.

one question too:

who has to do what to have the game counted towards your rating ?
does the the game host have to send the power graph to you each x9 turn.

btw, why x9 turn ? why not just take 10*x turns. turn 0 isnt really relevant is it ?