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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:18
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If you break it down by petty kings and Emirs, it only gets worse.
The Ottomans are the only ones worth talking about after the 15th century, the otehr states had lond since fallen to decadence.
An interesting example is the Barbary pirates, an organized extortion ring run out of Islamic North Africa (and having nothing to do with the Ottomans) that wasn't broken untill the 1820s.
These sturdy fellows would way lay merchant ships plying the Mediteranian, unless you payed their leader extortion money (and from this comes one of the famous American quotes, when US merchant seamen were siezed, they were held under threat of death till blood money was delivered, thus we get the quote "Millions for defense, not one cent for tribute", maening the young US would rather fight then pay).
Another interseting notion is that all the people benifitted from Islamic science and culture, when in fact, then as now, only a cultural elite, of royal blood enjoyed such benifits.
The average person lived then as now, in abject poverty.
There are so many examples.
Yet I continue to see how they invented the decimal system and saved greek poems, so it's OK. 
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MrBaggins
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I'd just like to point out that Muhammed was in fact a mysogynistic bastard when it came to women, whether it be the preponderence of what he said or did (he said a few nice things about womens relationship with society, but they were few and far between)
Among his 23 (i believe) marriages he married for money (even though he said not to do that,) and after the rich wife died, he married a 6 year old, who he said was his 'favorite'.
He also was big on inequality (two women are the measure of a man, as a result of low intellect) and wife beating, to name just two big concepts.
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ZoboZeWarrior
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of anonym losers ... :[
Mar 2001
time: 06:18
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quote:
Originally posted by MrBaggins
I'd just like to point out that Muhammed was in fact a mysogynistic bastard when it came to women, whether it be the preponderence of what he said or did (he said a few nice things about womens relationship with society, but they were few and far between)
Among his 23 (i believe) marriages he married for money (even though he said not to do that,) and after the rich wife died, he married a 6 year old, who he said was his 'favorite'.
He also was big on inequality (two women are the measure of a man, as a result of low intellect) and wife beating, to name just two big concepts. |
 What r your reference ?
His first wife was Khadija... A skilled businesswomen.
Sure If you read the Coran, the point of view is phalocratic, as all religious text at this time and before.
But in the Coran, you could found the most protective law for women ! Read It.
---
quote:
http://www.magna.com.au/~prfbrown/islam_4.html
When Khadija died, he married a very elderly lady, Sauda, whose only recommendation for the honour was that she was the widow of a faithful companion of his who had to flee to Abyssinia from the persecution of the Quraish. The main part of his life, from twenty-five to fifty-four, was thus an example for his followers that monogamy was the rule in married life.
Now comes the third period. Of all his wives A'isha was the only one whom he married as a virgin. Her father, Abu Bakr, the closest frined of the Prophet had offered her to him when he suffered the great vereavement of losing both his wife and his uncle Abu Talib. The girl was one possessing exceptional qualities, and both Abu Bakr and the Prophet saw in her the great woman of the future who was best suited to perform the duties of the wife of a teacher who was to be a perfect exemplar for mankind. So the Prophet accepted her; but apparently she had not yet reached the age of puberty, and her marriage was consummated towards the close of the second year of the Flight.
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Last edited by ZoboZeWarrior on 19-04-2002 at 20:04
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MrBaggins
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The koran 
Mu's wives
1- Khadija
2- Sawda
3-Ayesha
4-Omm Salama
5-Hafsa
6-Zainab (of Jahsh)
7-Juwariya
8-Omm Habiba
9-Safia
10-Maymuna (of Hareth)
11-Fatima
12-Hend
13-Asma (of Saba)
14-Zainab (of Khozayma)
15-Habla
16-Asma (of Noman)
17-Maria
18-Rayhana
19-Omm Sharik
20-Maymuna (not of Hareth)
21-Zainab (third one)
22-Khawla
23-Duba
Holy sh*t!
quote:
Quote by a guy called Ezra in a post I saved from a religious forum
(Sura 33:28) "O Prophet! Say to thy consorts: 'If it be that ye desire the life of this world and its glitter then come! I will provide for your enjoyment and set you free in a handsome manner.'
(Sura 33:30) "O Consorts of the Prophet if any of you were guilty of evident unseemly conduct, the punishment would be doubled to her, and that is easy for Allah."
The prophet's interactions with women, his insatiable lust for lascivious ladies, his lecherous behaviour with his wives and concubines are components that form the model of a true muslim. The prophet is the perfect muslim man for all devout muslims as he is the one whom Allah chose to reveal the Quran to. And because he is the perfect man it is every muslim's duty to follow him. For example, they cannot eat pork because Mohammed disliked it, they have to grow a beard like he had, they have to loot and kill like he did and likewise they have to molest and treat women inhumanly as he did!
The "great" Mohammed, the founder of this "fabulous" faith was married to Khadija Bibi who was his employer and 15 years his senior. At that time Mohammed was 25 years old. He was Khadija Bibi's 3rd husband. Khadija Bibi was a rich widow when she married Mohammed. For the first time in his life, Mohammed enjoyed a luxurious life.
This shows the parasitic nature of Mohammed who married his employer so that he can live a rich life without putting in a single day's work.
Khadija Bibi died when Mohammed was 49 years old. Between the ages of 49 and 63 the "great prophet" married at least 11 times.
This shows how he treated the institution of marriage. For him, women were nothing but objects for sexual fulfillment. Marrying at least 11 women in 14 years throws light on his insatiable sexual appetite. Read on about the "greatness" of this prophet.
Among his many other wives Mohammed also married a 6 year old baby, Ayesha. She was his favourite wife.
This marriage is a clear proof that his pedophilic tendency started manifesting itself after Khadija's death, because when she was alive he did not want to offend her because all the wealth belonged to her.
The prophet said that, "the woman can be married for religion, her fortune, or her beauty. So marry one for the religion" (Abu Issa al-Tarmidi, Sunan al- Tarmidi, Medina n.d., p.275, B: 4, H:1092)
Therefore, according to the Prophet the woman is either a creature who will be subjected to brutal conversion to Islam, a golden goose or a sexual plaything. Her virtues, intelligence or personality do not matter. But Mohammed did not stop there. He recommends all muslims to marry "one for the religion". Now what does this mean ? It means that use the institution of marriage to convert people to Islam. Now you know why so many Muslim men marry non-muslims and convert them to Islam. It also shows what high regard Islam has for the sacred institution of Marriage.
In many occasions Mohammed did not even spare women who were originally allotted to other soldiers of his tribe after gaining a victory in War. One such woman was Safia Bint Huyay. This Jewish woman was captured by lecherous muslim invaders after the Jews were brutally murdered by Mohammed. According to a Quranic Sura (8:41) four fifths of any booty or spoil that is won after murdering the non-believers, is distributed to the barbaric invaders. In Islam, women of other religion are also considered as booty, so Safiya bint Huyay was allotted to a soldier called Dahia. But when Mohammed the ascetic heard of her 'incomparable beauty', he sent for Dahiya, paid him Safiya's price and married her. (Ibn Saad, al-Tabaqat, pp. 120-123).
Safiya Bint Huyway was just one of the numerous Jewish women who became prey to Mohammed's insatiable sexual desire. Regardless of his participation in these barbaric raids Mohammed was alloted 1/5 of the booty as prescribed in the Quran, Sura 8:41. Rayhana Bint Zayd was another Jewish woman, whom Mohammed captured after her tribe was totally butchered. She was known to be a woman of immense beauty. Mohammed kept her as a concubine. (Ibid., p. 129)
During Mohammed's time a lot of barbaric wars were instigated by the muslims and Mohammed was always the receiver of at least one fifths of the booty. This booty included captured women and children. One can imagine how many women were made into concubines for Prophet Mohammed's carnal pleasure and how many children were his victims.
Maria the Copt from Egypt, was another concubine of Mohammed. She bore him a son, Ibrahim, who died in infancy. The Prophet's desire for Maria was so strong that it led him to violate another of his ideals: "That a man should be just in his dealings with his wives. A man should keep strictly to the rotation schedule and not have intercourse with a wife, even if he so desired."
Hafsa, one of the Prophet's wives, however, caught him having intercourse with Maria in Safiya's room. 'O Prophet of God, in my room and in my day!' fulminated Safiya angrily. Afraid of the anger of his other wives, and especially of his most beloved Ayesha, he promised Hafsa never to touch Maria again if she would keep the incident secret (Ibid., p. 213). But she spoke out, and the Prophet immediately received orders from God to retract his promise to Safiya; he then resumed relations with Maria (Sura 66:3).
Maria's power over the Prophet is best described in Ayesha's words: "I never was as jealous as I was of Maria again. That is because she was a very beautiful, curly haired woman. The Prophet was very attracted to her. In the beginning, she was living near us and the Prophet spent entire days and nights with her until we protested and she became frightened." (Ibn Saad, al-Tabaqat, p. 212)
The Prophet then decided to transfer Maria to a more secure dwelling far from his legitimate wives and kept seeing her inspite of their pressure.
Another woman that the Prophet married for satisfying his sexual desires was Juwariya Bint al-Harith who was according to Ayesha's description, 'so beautiful that whoever caught a glimpse of her fell in love with her.' (Ibid. p.117)
Ayesha's jealousy is displayed again from the following quote: "The Prophet was in my room when Juwariya came to ask him about a contract. By Allah, I hated her when I saw her coming towards him. I knew that he was going to see what I saw (her beauty)." (Ibid)
A unique instance of the effect of female beauty on the Prophet was that of Duba Bint Amr who 'was among the most beautiful of Arab women....her hair was long enough to cover all her body.'(Ibid., p. 153) Mohammed asked her son if he could marry his mother, but later retracted when he heard that Duba Bint Amr, although attractive, was aging.
This shows that Mohammed was only interested in physical beauty and not in providing protection for widows or some other charitable cuase as the Muslims have been brain washed to believe.
Mohammed's adopted son Zayed was married to Zainab, daughter of Jahsh. But one day the prophet "beheld in a loose undress, the beauty of Zainab, and burst forth into an ejaculation of devotion and desire. The servile, or greatful, freeman (Zayed) understood the hint and yielded without hesitation to the love of the benefactor."
Mohammed was not satisfied with his own overflowing harem and had to marry his son's wife. His son being a devoted follower of the "great" prophet was more than happy to divorce his wife. What a great father-in-law Mohammed was, a model for all Islamic father-in-laws.
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MrBaggins
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some more proof of classy behavior by good old Mu or Mo 
quote:
Again, by Ezra
(Al-Hadis, Vol. 3, p. 137) Abu Sayeed al-Khodri reported that Mohammed was talking to a group of women when he said, "... I see the majority of you will go to Hell." The women asked why, to which Mohammed responded, "You often curse and are ungrateful to your companions." He then told them they had a basic defect in their nature, to which they responded, "How?" Mohammed answered, "Is not the attestation (knowledge and witness) of a women only worth half of a man's? And that is on account of her short intelligence."
This quote really brings out Mohammed's "shining" views on women. He automatically condemns the majority of them to hell. According to him a woman's intellectual capacity is only half that of a man and that is why two women are required as witnesses as compared to one man.
He was so scared of women's intelligence that he said, "a man should not walk between two women" (Al Hadis, Vol. 1, p. 586) as that would mean that the man was taking a risk of being on equal turf according to Mohammed.
(Al Hadis, Vol. 2, p. 692) Ibn Ma`sud reported from the Messenger of Allah who said, "A woman is like a private part (sex organ). When she goes out (walking) the devil casts a glance at her (in lust)."
Well, this clearly gives us an insight into Mohammed's "pure" mind. To him women were nothing but walking vaginas to be used as objects for sexual fulfillment. No wonder he required women to be completely covered from head to toe. He had to have some way to control his lust!
(Koran, 4:34) ...Guard in (the husband's)absence what Allah would have them guard...
This verse is demanding that the women should guard their private parts for the sake of their husbands. Again, this tells us the low opinion that Mohammed held for women-- objects to be used for sexual fulfillment. Nowhere in the Koran or the Hadiths does it say that a man should guard his private parts or abstain from sex in the absence of their wives. A man can even engage in sexual intercourse with young boys/men without much rebuke from Allah. This is supported by the verses stated below:
(Koran 4:15) If two men among you commit indecency (sodomy) punish them both. If they repent and mend their ways, let them be. Allah is forgiving and merciful.
(Koran 4:16) If any one of your women is guilty of lewdness ...confine them until death claims them.
As you can see, for women any sort of sexual exploration is punishable by death. Whereas for a man, any form of perversion is pardoned by the all merciful Allah. Such fairness can only be found in the "holiest of the holiest books", the Koran.
(Koran 4:34) ...As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds and BEAT THEM...
Mohammed was an old perverted nutcase. He was so insecure about himself that he thought that showing physical prowess over women would serve as a reminder to him of his manliness. Thus, he encouraged wife beating! In Islam equality between a man and a woman is a far cry. A man needs only to be suspicious to justify the bestial act of beating his wife.
(Al Hadis, Vol. 1, p. 215) Omar reported from the Holy Prophet who said, "No man shall be questioned for beating his wife."
In the very next Hadith a woman complained to Mohammed that her husband beat her while she prayed. Mohammed told her to change her time of prayer or pray shorter prayers so that her husband could get on with the joy of beating her. (Reported by Abu Sayeed al-Kodri, Attest by Abu Daud)
Could Mohammed degrade women any further? If you are asking yourself this question then surprisingly you have not yet grasped the true nature of this "great Prophet" . He allowed the utterly inhuman practice of circumcision for females. In this type of circumcision a girl's clitoris is carved away, so that she may never experience climax during sexual intercourse and her vulva is sewn shut until it is cut open at the time of marriage! Such "great" practices can only be sactioned by Islam-- the religion for all women to embrace!
(Al Hadis, Vol. 1, p. 738) Abul Malih reported that the Messenger of Allah said, "Circumcision is Sunnat (required by Islamic law) for males and optional for females."
OK, enough of looking at the negative side of Islam. Now lets look at the positive side of this religion. Mohammed said that a man before marrying a woman has to pay her a dowry. Surely, as the many devout muslims would say, you can't criticize that. Ah, but they are mistaken, then again, that's not anything new. Read the quote below from Al Hadis.
(Al Hadis, Vol. 2, p. 657) Oqbah-b- A`mer reported that the Messenger of Allah said, "The most equitable of the conditions of marriage is that you should fulfil that (dowry) with which you have made private parts lawful."
So, according to Mohammed and his Allah a man has to pay the woman before he can use her private parts. Which means that the man is supposed to treat his wife as a prostitute by paying her before he gets a legal permit for having sex. This implies that the foundation for marriage in Islam is to provide a man with legal sexual gratification and nothing else matters.
Now, hold on! Doesn't Islam say that prostitution is not allowed? Of course, it does! It's right there in Sahih Muslim Hadith:
(Sahih Muslim Hadith Chapter 619) Selling a cat, selling a dog (unless it is a working dog), and earning of prostitutes(unless they are non-muslims),... are all forbidden.
Here we have a contradiction! But, again, that is nothing new for the Koran. It is full of contradictions. But I digress, a separate article will be devoted to this in the coming weeks.
Back to the dowry issue. Mohammed was not a man who would have people speculate on what he has said. He had to specify what he meant by dowry and specify he did in Al Hadis, Vol. 2, p. 659 (57). He said that, "a handful of barley or dates is enough."
Not only are the wives supposed to be treated as prostitutes, but as prostitutes who only deserve "a handful of barley or dates".
Another quote from the Hadith gives total control of women's lives to men.
(Al Hadis, Vol 2, p. 651) Abu Hurairah reported that the Messenger of Allah said, "No woman shall give a woman in marriage, nor shall a woman give herself in marriage. Verily, the fornicatress is she that marries by herself."
Here Mohammed takes away the right of a woman to choose her husband. She has no right to decide how to live her life. This basic right is snatched away from her and given to a man. Furthermore, this implies that a widow has no final authority over her daughter in Islam.
As if men didn't already have the legal freedom to control and degrade women's lives that they were granted further control to degrade women.
During a Jihad expedition (holy war) Mohammed's men came to him very frustrated. As seen in the quote below:
(Al Hadis, Vol. 2, p. 686) Ibn Masud reported, "We were fighting with the Messenger of Allah, and our wives were not with us. We asked the Messenger of Allah, 'Should we castrate ourselves?' The Holy Prophet forbade us from that, and then he allowed us Muta (temporary) marriage. So, we all married wives for a fixed time (usually three days) for the dowry of a piece of cloth."
Here Mohammed clearly tells the muslims to forget about the prostitutes they had purchased for a handful of dates back home and to have fun with these new victims who come even cheaper. They can be bought and violated for only a piece of cloth. Allah is truly merciful! Praise be to Allah!
In other civilized countries this is called rape--plain and simple. The mullahs happily approve this dastardly deed by quoting from the Koran. (Koran, 5:87): "...Make not unlawful the good things Allah hath made lawful for you." Thus this heinous crime is still committed by muslims as attested by the Indo-Pak war, Arab-Israeli war, Iraq- Iran war, Iraq-Kuwait war, etc.
Sometimes Mohammed's lust was so great that he conveniently forgot all the Koranic verses invented by him and did not have time to come up with an ammendment. One instance of this is noted when he married Safiya, a Jewish girl, after killing her father and her betrothed husband. He did not want to go through the long laborious procedure of finding a sponsor, paying the dowry, sending out invitations, or preparing a wedding feast. In fact, Mohammed skipped over the usual law of waiting until her next monthly was passed. He consummated his "marriage" to her on a sand dune with the blood and gore of Jihad still covering him, even Safiya's father's blood, no doubt. This is another case of rape, but for Mohammed it was just a beautiful marriage sanctioned by the All Perverted Allah!
It is sickening to read the Koran and the Hadiths and the low and inhuman opinion that this so called despicable Mohammed has on women.
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MrBaggins
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Over the course of his life, he had 23. I've listed them.
I think that if anyone had 23 wives in modern times, there'd be a picture of him in an encylopedia under the misogynist catagory.
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MrBaggins
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Yes, maybe? Maybe what?
Muslim scholar and statesman, Ali Dashti gives the following list of women in Mohammed's life.
Khadija
Sawda
Ayesha
Omm Salama
Hafsa
*snip*
where are your sources.
Mo said that you can only have 4 wives AT A TIME
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MrBaggins
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In some places... yes, but what the hell does that have to do with anything?
23 is an incredible number of marriages, which demonstrates that Mo treated women something akin to pets.
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MrBaggins
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BS
Giving one example
Mohammed's adopted son Zayed was married to Zainab, daughter of Jahsh. But one day the prophet "beheld in a loose undress, the beauty of Zainab, and burst forth into an ejaculation of devotion and desire. The servile, or greatful, freeman (Zayed) understood the hint and yielded without hesitation to the love of the benefactor."
Why don't you actually produce some evidence to back up your spurious claims.
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MrBaggins
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Directly from the Koran
The good sense of Mahomet ^158 despised the pomp of royalty:
the apostle of God submitted to the menial offices of the family:
he kindled the fire, swept the floor, milked the ewes, and mended
with his own hands his shoes and his woollen garment. Disdaining
the penance and merit of a hermit, he observed, without effort or
vanity, the abstemious diet of an Arab and a soldier. On solemn
occasions he feasted his companions with rustic and hospitable
plenty; but in his domestic life, many weeks would elapse without
a tire being kindled on the hearth of the prophet. The
interdiction of wine was confirmed by his example; his hunger was
appeased with a sparing allowance of barley-bread: he delighted
in the taste of milk and honey; but his ordinary food consisted
of dates and water. Perfumes and women were the two sensual
enjoyments which his nature required, and his religion did not
forbid; and Mahomet affirmed, that the fervor of his devotion was
increased by these innocent pleasures. The heat of the climate
inflames the blood of the Arabs; and their libidinous complexion
has been noticed by the writers of antiquity. ^159 Their
incontinence was regulated by the civil and religious laws of the
Koran: their incestuous alliances were blamed; the boundless
license of polygamy was reduced to four legitimate wives or
concubines; their rights both of bed and of dowry were equitably
determined; the freedom of divorce was discouraged, adultery was
condemned as a capital offence; and fornication, in either sex,
was punished with a hundred stripes. ^160 Such were the calm and
rational precepts of the legislator: but in his private conduct,
Mahomet indulged the appetites of a man, and abused the claims of
a prophet. A special revelation dispensed him from the laws
which he had imposed on his nation: the female sex, without
reserve, was abandoned to his desires; and this singular
prerogative excited the envy, rather than the scandal, the
veneration, rather than the envy, of the devout Mussulmans. If
we remember the seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines
of the wise Solomon, we shall applaud the modesty of the Arabian,
who espoused no more than seventeen or fifteen wives; eleven are
enumerated who occupied at Medina their separate apartments round
the house of the apostle, and enjoyed in their turns the favor of
his conjugal society. What is singular enough, they were all
widows, excepting only Ayesha, the daughter of Abubeker. She was
doubtless a virgin, since Mahomet consummated his nuptials (such
is the premature ripeness of the climate) when she was only nine
years of age. The youth, the beauty, the spirit of Ayesha, gave
her a superior ascendant: she was beloved and trusted by the
prophet; and, after his death, the daughter of Abubeker was long
revered as the mother of the faithful. Her behavior had been
ambiguous and indiscreet: in a nocturnal march she was
accidentally left behind; and in the morning Ayesha returned to
the camp with a man. The temper of Mahomet was inclined to
jealousy; but a divine revelation assured him of her innocence:
he chastised her accusers, and published a law of domestic peace,
that no woman should be condemned unless four male witnesses had
seen her in the act of adultery. ^161 In his adventures with
Zeineb, the wife of Zeid, and with Mary, an Egyptian captive, the
amorous prophet forgot the interest of his reputation. At the
house of Zeid, his freedman and adopted son, he beheld, in a
loose undress, the beauty of Zeineb, and burst forth into an
ejaculation of devotion and desire. The servile, or grateful,
freedman understood the hint, and yielded without hesitation to
the love of his benefactor. But as the filial relation had
excited some doubt and scandal, the angel Gabriel descended from
heaven to ratify the deed, to annul the adoption, and gently to
reprove the apostle for distrusting the indulgence of his God.
One of his wives, Hafna, the daughter of Omar, surprised him on
her own bed, in the embraces of his Egyptian captive: she
promised secrecy and forgiveness, he swore that he would renounce
the possession of Mary. Both parties forgot their engagements;
and Gabriel again descended with a chapter of the Koran, to
absolve him from his oath, and to exhort him freely to enjoy his
captives and concubines, without listening to the clamors of his
wives. In a solitary retreat of thirty days, he labored, alone
with Mary, to fulfil the commands of the angel. When his love
and revenge were satiated, he summoned to his presence his eleven
wives, reproached their disobedience and indiscretion, and
threatened them with a sentence of divorce, both in this world
and in the next; a dreadful sentence, since those who had
ascended the bed of the prophet were forever excluded from the
hope of a second marriage. Perhaps the incontinence of Mahomet
may be palliated by the tradition of his natural or preternatural
gifts; ^162 he united the manly virtue of thirty of the children
of Adam: and the apostle might rival the thirteenth labor ^163 of
the Grecian Hercules. ^164 A more serious and decent excuse may
be drawn from his fidelity to Cadijah. During the twenty-four
years of their marriage, her youthful husband abstained from the
right of polygamy, and the pride or tenderness of the venerable
matron was never insulted by the society of a rival. After her
death, he placed her in the rank of the four perfect women, with
the sister of Moses, the mother of Jesus, and Fatima, the best
beloved of his daughters. "Was she not old?" said Ayesha, with
the insolence of a blooming beauty; "has not God given you a
better in her place?" "No, by God," said Mahomet, with an
effusion of honest gratitude, "there never can be a better! She
believed in me when men despised me; she relieved my wants, when
I was poor and persecuted by the world." ^165
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19-04-2002 18:23
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