16-04-2002 10:55									#1
	AA? What AA? After 25 years of trying, US media still fails diversity test Put an end to popups!

A study by the Boston Globe has found that the US newspaper are still predominately white, even in communities with large non-white populations.

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/1...ity_goal+.shtml

(The story includes lists of newspapers and diversity score)

This story shows that as much as companies talk about affirmative action, most companies fail to do anything about it. As well, it puts to rest the idea that the playing field is level in the United States, that whites are being deprived of jobs, or that the US no longer needs AA.


"If newspapers are a mirror that a community holds up to itself, the reflection is mostly white."

" Only because payrolls shrank in the recession, with more white journalists taking buyouts, did the percentage of minorities in newsrooms increase to 12 percent, compared with 31 percent of the US population. Nearly half of the nation's newspapers employ no minority reporters, editors, artists, or photographers."

This failure is all the more striking given that 25 years ago the American Society of Newspaper Editors set a goal of having their newsrooms as diverse as the communites served by the newspaper.

"The 1,448 daily papers include 125 that meet or exceed their community's minority diversity; 216 that are at least halfway to parity; 285 that employ some minorities but are less than halfway to the goal; 530 that reported no minority journalists on their latest survey; and 292 newspapers that won't say."

	16-04-2002 10:59									#2
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Affirmative Action: Reverse Racism at its finest.

	16-04-2002 11:04									#3
	Re: AA? What AA? After 25 years of trying, US media still fails diversity test Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Tingkai This story shows that as much as companies talk about affirmative action, most companies fail to do anything about it.

By "companies," do you mean "newspaper companies", or do you mean "all companies"?

quote: As well, it puts to rest the idea that the playing field is level in the United States, that whites are being deprived of jobs, or that the US no longer needs AA.

So the fact that one industry hasn't diversified proves that all industries haven't diversified? You seem to be using an awfully large brush here...

	16-04-2002 11:07									#4
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The Canadian Government still rigorously applies "minority quotas" to its workforce. It's gotten so ridiculous with so many minorities that it's almost making white people themselves a minority within the government jobs.

Take one look at the CBC and you'll see what I mean.
Or if you ever have to negotiate with provinces as a business the chances of talking to a white person are virtually nill.

Affirmative Action and minority quotas are nothing but racism. I think we've progressed to the point where nobody cares what color your skin is when you apply for the job, as long as you do the job as per its description.

Putting in less qualified people on the basis of meeting a quota is shameful to everyone involved.

	16-04-2002 11:12									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The Canadian Government still rigorously applies "minority quotas" to its workforce. It's gotten so ridiculous with so many minorities that it's almost making white people themselves a minority within the government jobs.

Do you have any stats to back up your wild statements?

The Canadian gov't AA system only requires companies to report the diversity make up of their employees. If they don't report, the companies can't get contracts to work for the government. If they do report, and even if their workforce is 100 per cent of one group, they can stil get federal contracts.

	16-04-2002 11:13									#6
	Re: Re: AA? What AA? After 25 years of trying, US media still fails diversity test Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by loinburger So the fact that one industry hasn't diversified proves that all industries haven't diversified? You seem to be using an awfully large brush here...

It is one industry within the US and it is an example of how industry leaders often talk about affirmative action and yet do not walk the talk.

	16-04-2002 11:14									#7
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Is this good or bad?

	16-04-2002 11:15									#8
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No, I don't have any stats to back up my "wild" statements, just eyes and experience.

And I'm not talking about simple crown corporation-type government, I'm talking actual government employees.

I've seen pictures from negotiations my dad had with the governments of Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and Alberta. Literally zero white people on the government's end of the table, many of them were native, and the others other assorted minorities. Some quick mental math tells you that this is some freak statistical anomalie in three provinces in a row, or the government's minority quotas are insane.

	16-04-2002 11:16									#9
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Is this White people's fault? Or is it the Jews that control the media?



(I just found out today that the Jews control US media. So it must be their fault.)

	16-04-2002 11:33									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Asher No, I don't have any stats to back up my "wild" statements, just eyes and experience. And I'm not talking about simple crown corporation-type government, I'm talking actual government employees. I've seen pictures from negotiations my dad had with the governments of Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and Alberta. Literally zero white people on the government's end of the table, many of them were native, and the others other assorted minorities. Some quick mental math tells you that this is some freak statistical anomalie in three provinces in a row, or the government's minority quotas are insane.

Sometimes you can't rely on your own experiences.

In a 2000 report, 5.9 per cent of the Canadian public service were visible minorities in 1999. Visible minorities made up 8.7 per cent of the Canadian labour market that year.

http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/research/d...ible_demo_e.htm

I'd say that proves you're way off the mark when you claim that:"It's gotten so ridiculous with so many minorities that it's almost making white people themselves a minority within the government jobs."

Whites still make up 94 per cent of the public service so they're hardly a minority.

	16-04-2002 11:37									#11
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That's weird.
In my area I'm a visible minority as a white male.

Maybe the Federal statistics are very skewed by Ontario?

Because in Alberta and BC, at least, the percentage of "visible minority" is WAY higher than 8.7% of the labour market.

Something's extremely fishy about that report.

How did they define visible minority?

And anyone who takes Calgary Transit will tell you that the majority of bus drivers are certainly not white either. I'm having a really hard time believing anyting in that report, because everything I've seen comes nowhere close to matching their numbers.

	16-04-2002 11:40									#12
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This is probably why the numbers are extremely misleading:

quote: A major barrier to increased representation public service wide, is that some of the largest departments have among the lowest representation... National Defence Correctional Services Fisheries and Oceans

	16-04-2002 11:46									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Asher That's weird. In my area I'm a visible minority as a white male. Maybe the Federal statistics are very skewed by Ontario? Because in Alberta and BC, at least, the percentage of "visible minority" is WAY higher than 8.7% of the labour market. Something's extremely fishy about that report. How did they define visible minority? And anyone who takes Calgary Transit will tell you that the majority of bus drivers are certainly not white either. I'm having a really hard time believing anyting in that report, because everything I've seen comes nowhere close to matching their numbers.

First off, the report deals with the federal workers, not local bus drivers.

In what way would Ontario skew the results. There are more minorities in Ontario than in Alberta.

Your perception is distorted by your subjective judgement. If you see a couple of Native bus drivers, you think there are a lot. I would think why aren't there more.

The only places in Canada where whites are a minority are on Native reserves. Even in Toronto, which has the largest population of visible minorities, whites are still in the majority.

You claim you're a minority in your area. What are the stats?

	16-04-2002 11:50									#14
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The three departments, Citizenship, Revenue Canada, and Health Canada, with the largest representation of visible minorities still have less than 10 per cent of these people.

Ironically, only 6.6 per cent of the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs are visible minorities. In other words, there are not that many Natives working in the department that is supposed to look after their interests.

	16-04-2002 11:51									#15
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quote: There are more minorities in Ontario than in Alberta.

Have you spent much time in Alberta in the past decade? Particularly NW Calgary?

quote: Your perception is distorted by your subjective judgement. If you see a couple of Native bus drivers, you think there are a lot. I would think why aren't there more.

Err....no, the thing is it's rare to see a white bus driver.
I'm used to seeing a minority bus-driver, if it's a white guy it's a complete surprise.

quote: The only places in Canada where whites are a minority are on Native reserves. Even in Toronto, which has the largest population of visible minorities, whites are still in the majority. You claim you're a minority in your area. What are the stats?

I don't care for stats, but I went to a high school of 2000 people (Sir Winston Churchill High, for Zylka or any other Calgarian that reads this), and literally about 40% the school was Oriental, and about 20-30% East Indian/Pakistani, which left whites to having a minority 30-40%.

I don't know if they do regional, but NW Calgary has a very heavy concentration of "minorities". Abnormally so.

Also, check out some of the numbers on that report. Am I reading this right when it say "40.4%" for Visible Minorites in "Administrative & Foreign service" jobs?

and...

quote: Overall the visible minority population within the public service occupy a higher proportion of what would be considered the knowledge jobs in the public service (63.5%) than do non-visible minorities (52.6%)

	16-04-2002 11:53									#16
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Sorry for the repeat posts. I just saw in the report that the 8.7 per cent number refers to Labour Market Availablity. This is an estimate of the number of people qualified to do work in a given area as opposed to the total number of visible minorities in Canada.

	16-04-2002 12:03									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I don't care for stats, but I went to a high school of 2000 people (Sir Winston Churchill High, for Zylka or any other Calgarian that reads this), and literally about 40% the school was Oriental, and about 20-30% East Indian/Pakistani, which left whites to having a minority 30-40%.

Actually, you could be right. There could be schools with a high proportion of visible minorities, but how did you estimate this number?

In the city of Calgary, 16.5 per cent of the population were visible minorities in 1996 with 5.8 per cent of the population being Chinese-Canadians. South-Asian: 3.3 per cent.

By the way, Stats Canada defines visible minority as someone who is not white nor Native.

	16-04-2002 12:14									#18
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My figures are merely an estimate. But to put things into perspective for you, there were 28 "Lee"s in the yearbook alone when I graduated.

It is more abnormal, since it was the #1 Public school in the province in terms of Diploma Exam marks and was one of the only schools in Calgary to offer the International Baccalaureate (IB) and Advanced Placement (AP) programs. It was very much an academic school, and that appealed to many of the families, which is also why it had the longest waiting list and out-of-district attendance.

I'm not going to carry on in this discussion anymore because someone's going to come in here and call me a racist for silly things.

	16-04-2002 14:55									#19
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quote: Have you spent much time in Alberta in the past decade? Particularly NW Calgary?

Yes I lived there and you generalize way too much...

quote: Err....no, the thing is it's rare to see a white bus driver. I'm used to seeing a minority bus-driver, if it's a white guy it's a complete surprise.

As usual you missed the point...

quote: I don't know if they do regional, but NW Calgary has a very heavy concentration of "minorities". Abnormally so.

So does china town but that obviously does not represent life in Canada just your basement bedroom in one corner of a city in Canada sheltered view...

quote: was one of the only schools in Calgary to offer the International Baccalaureate (IB) and Advanced Placement (AP) programs. It was very much an academic school, and that appealed to many of the families, which is also why it had the longest waiting list and out-of-district attendance.

That says a lot about why your school had the numbers it did, guessing you do a lot it seems...

	16-04-2002 15:00									#20
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quote: Originally posted by blackice quote: Have you spent much time in Alberta in the past decade? Particularly NW Calgary? Yes I lived there and you generalize way too much...

I generalize too much?
This entire thread is generalizing AA across entire countries, when obviously it needs to be looked at regionally, if anything, as per my examples.

quote: As usual you missed the point...

No, I got the point. But it wasn't valid, since it's unusual to have a white busdriver here.

You missed MY point, it seems.

quote: So does china town but that obviously does not represent life in Canada just your basement bedroom in one corner of a city in Canada sheltered view...

This boy with the "sheltered view" has probably lived in more countries than you.
And I never did talk about all of Canada, I believe I specifically made references to where I lived.

It's ironic you're the one talking about generalizations being bad.

quote: That says a lot about why your school had the numbers it did, guessing you do a lot it seems...

Why do you think I brought it up?
"guessing you do a lot it seems"? Huh?

	16-04-2002 15:06									#21
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quote: as per my examples

Yes that's it we will take China Towns from accross the country and assume Chinese are the majority good one...

quote: lived in more countries than you

Not only do you generalize too much you assume too much too. And these travels you were what 6 months old?

Not so far but staying on topic seems to be a problem for you...have you tried ritalin? or is that what keeps you up at night? Serious...

	16-04-2002 15:09									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I generalize too much? This entire thread is generalizing AA across entire countries, when obviously it needs to be looked at regionally, if anything, as per my examples.

Hardly. This thread starts with a study that provides specific numbers about the US newspaper industry. In response to your claims, I provided specific information from another study.

On this one, you are wrong and you are generalizing without providing any stats to back up your claims.

	16-04-2002 15:10									#23
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Yes that's it we will take China Towns from accross the country and assume Chinese are the majority good one...

For the second time now, I'm not the one generalizing across Canada.

In each of my examples I've specified regions and specific circumstances, and never once generalized it for all of Canada.

quote: Not only do you generalize too much you assume too much too. And these travels you were what 6 months old?

No, I didn't move anywhere until after 8 years old.

quote: Not so far but staying on topic seems to be a problem for you...have you tried ritalin? or is that what keeps you up at night? Serious...

It's a problem for me because you annoy the hell out of me.
You talk like a three year old and you talk out of your ass and misrepresent my argument. I go and try to correct your blatant straw men and then you talk about my age and throw in some personal attacks. When I respond in kind, you talk about immaturity, etc.

And no, I don't have ADD or ADHD. But I am on a tricyclic, and it does cause moderate insomnia.

	16-04-2002 15:10									#24
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As usual

	16-04-2002 15:11									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Hardly. This thread starts with a study that provides specific numbers about the US newspaper industry. In response to your claims, I provided specific information from another study. On this one, you are wrong and you are generalizing without providing any stats to back up your claims.

Tingkai: Your facts backed up what I said.

My examples were all about high-level government negotiaters, where your own stats show staggeringly high numbers (was it 40%?).

	16-04-2002 15:17									#26
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Staying on topic obviously is still hard for you..as for flame wars if you had on iota of intellegence you would remember you have posted the flames first in all cases...off topic I may add...confirmation check the cache thread...as far as annoying you...you brag of people skills I have seen none yet...your immaturity flys in the face of your own reality...you should work on it. Of course age and reality help so grow up, move on. You think you know it all yet it is still obvious you need pills...consult your doctor seek help there..

	16-04-2002 15:20									#27
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blackice: When was your first on-topic post in this thread? Thanks.

And if you'll check the cache thread, you'd see that you started it first:

quote: Heh thanks mircosoft man

I don't know it all, but that doesn't invalidate my experiences.

	16-04-2002 15:27									#28
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Well at least you posted your denial for all to see...they will read the thread and see:Perhaps you did something extremely stupid (this is not a big leap), I was not aware being calling mircosoft man was an insult to you. The way I see it you take great pride in backing thier stupidities? How about I call you little man in basement of parent house that thinks he knows all and needs meds? Too long? As for spam Taki has some good points as much as I would love to spam in turn you are way of base here....

	16-04-2002 15:28									#29
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Another popcorn thread

	16-04-2002 15:31									#30
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Well at least you posted your denial for all to see...they will read the thread and see:Perhaps you did something extremely stupid (this is not a big leap), I was not aware being calling mircosoft man was an insult to you.

And I was not aware being called stupid was an insult to you, since you obviously don't care enough about grammar to avoid being called it.

quote: The way I see it you take great pride in backing thier stupidities?

Microsoft is full of stupid people? If they're so stupid, how did they get and hold a monopoly, legally, in the computer industry?

quote: How about I call you little man in basement of parent house that thinks he knows all and needs meds?

You don't have any right to talk about that kind of stuff, so lay off.

quote: Too long? As for spam Taki has some good points as much as I would love to spam in turn you are way of base here....

Thanks for sharing, but how am I off base?
I admit that there may not be a huge problem with minorites getting special treatment everywhere, but it does exist in high level government positions, where even Tinkai's own figures show staggeringly high numbers as well as personal experiences.

Now, go f*ck off or post on topic in this thread, I'm not going to get banned for constantly threadjacking because you feel you need to prove something to an 18 year old kid who you feel threatened by.