17-04-2002 20:34									#31
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Thanks Mike for your explanation.

	17-04-2002 20:35									#32
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Holy smoke two at once

Glad to see it

What about the icons? It doesnt limit the number of units or techs (that we know of) but it is a pain!

	17-04-2002 20:36									#33
	Firaxians: Minimap? Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hello Firaxians!
Why did you choose not to include a minimap in the editor. It can't be that hard. Did you not have the time for it?

Other than that the patch looks very cool!

	17-04-2002 20:39									#34
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Is the new BIC-version 3.08, or is it more then that?

	17-04-2002 20:41									#35
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH What about the icons? It doesnt limit the number of units or techs (that we know of) but it is a pain!

See the following:

quote: * Updated resource icon loading so that it's not hard-coded. Any number of resource icons can now be loaded from resources.pcx as longs they are 49x49 with a 1-pixel border (and don't forget to update resource_shadows.pcx). * Updated unit icon loading so that it's no longer hard-coded. Any number of unit icons can now be loaded as long as they are 32x32 with a 1-pixel border.

Tech icons are probably still a problem for now...

	17-04-2002 20:44									#36
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Wow, sounds like a lot of good stuff.

	17-04-2002 20:44									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS See the following: Tech icons are probably still a problem for now...

Thanks I just spotted it myself (its all those small letters so close together it makes my brain go numb), but you beat me to the post

	17-04-2002 20:45									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS quote: Originally posted by SpencerH What about the icons? It doesnt limit the number of units or techs (that we know of) but it is a pain! See the following: quote: * Updated resource icon loading so that it's not hard-coded. Any number of resource icons can now be loaded from resources.pcx as longs they are 49x49 with a 1-pixel border (and don't forget to update resource_shadows.pcx). * Updated unit icon loading so that it's no longer hard-coded. Any number of unit icons can now be loaded as long as they are 32x32 with a 1-pixel border. Tech icons are probably still a problem for now...

Exactly what has been changed? is it the number limit? How is it working now, does the units need to be on the same line, or can I place then randomly in the file, Just because it looks fun, as long as I keep a border around each icon?
Can I increase width and hight how mush i want, or is there any other limits?

	17-04-2002 20:49									#39
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Hmm, looks promising. I wonder exactly how much they "adjusted advance trading rates for the AI." Can't wait to find out, actually.

Courthouses, Police Stations & WLTKD stronger versus corruption/waste - ok with me, but at this point the main issue with corruption is the optimal # of cities, not the effect of CH's and PS's. But then again, I was pretty much ok with corruption under 1.17 (at least on normal maps, dunno about large/huge).

Personally, I like the decreased map sizes, but I can imagine some who like playing on truely huge maps will be annoyed.

Draft/Hurry penalty dropped to 20 turns = good, especially for the AI. First pop sacrifice = 20 shields instead of 40... fine, will take a little getting used to, but fine.

Updated water unit movement to take into account the cost of
the terrain type.

Hmm... does this suggest that oceans will require more mp's than coast?

-Arrian

	17-04-2002 20:51									#40
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It all sounds interesting. Will any of these changes actually make the AI play differently, e.g. in tech trading or better use of bombardment units?

	17-04-2002 20:55									#41
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What does "Editor: Exposed AI to AI trade rate." mean?
Is it a rate for how the AI trade tach added to the editor? Where in the editor?

	17-04-2002 20:55									#42
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Interesting list of changes.

I think that with a few more, Civ III will actually be playable.

	17-04-2002 20:56									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Personally, I like the decreased map sizes, but I can imagine some who like playing on truely huge maps will be annoyed.

We changed the default size of these maps. The max. allowed size in the editor is unchanged.

quote: Originally posted by Arrian Updated water unit movement to take into account the cost of the terrain type. Hmm... does this suggest that oceans will require more mp's than coast?

This will only have an effect if you change the movement cost of water tiles. Currently Coast, Sea, and Ocean all have a movement cost of 1.

	17-04-2002 20:58									#44
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* Adjusted advance trading rates for AI.

Could you give us the details on this one?

	17-04-2002 21:00									#45
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I understood the map size change was just for the default maps - what I meant was that people who like to play on the really big maps all the time can't just fire up a new game (random map) at that size - now they have to use the editor or download a huge map, no? No skin off my nose either way.

Thanks for the clarification regarding ship movement. That's cool.

Thanks again for the responses.

-Arrian

	17-04-2002 21:01									#46
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"* Improved city governor AI"

What does this mean. Do I have more options to adjust the governor, will he be more intelligent, or what has changed?

	17-04-2002 21:02									#47
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What happens when you disband a city? Do you get Workers from the population? A Settler? Also what happens with the unhappiness that is built up in that city?

	17-04-2002 21:02									#48
	Re: it's here: 1.21F PATCH DETAILS Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by MarkG * Changed Culturally Linked Starting Locations from a pref to a rule.

does this mean we have to start with culturaly linked postitions? If so, erg .

Otherwise, excellent, and I can't wait to install it!

	17-04-2002 21:03									#49
	Inflate your Upload Space

And how will abandon city work?
How many of the citizens will be turned into pop-units? What pop-units? Will the pop-units be unhappy if joined inīanother city because of what you did to their home city?

	17-04-2002 21:05									#50
	Re: Re: it's here: 1.21F PATCH DETAILS Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by fezick31 does this mean we have to start with culturaly linked postitions? If so, erg . Otherwise, excellent, and I can't wait to install it!

I guess it's in the field where you select victory conditions, but might as well be in the BIC.

	17-04-2002 21:05									#51
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hehehe are Aeson and Gramphos the same person?

these changes look interesting. the game is slowly becoming much more mod-friendly, which can only be a good thing IMHO.

	17-04-2002 21:05									#52
	Re: Re: it's here: 1.21F PATCH DETAILS Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by fezick31 does this mean we have to start with culturaly linked postitions? If so, erg .

It probably means you'll have a checkbox in the game creation screen (where it belongs) instead of in the prefs .

	17-04-2002 21:09									#53
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I never bothered to apply the last patch. Can I apply this one without having applied the previous one?

Nice work, Firaxis. I'm glad to see you're so committed to this.

	17-04-2002 21:10									#54
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet hehehe are Aeson and Gramphos the same person? these changes look interesting. the game is slowly becoming much more mod-friendly, which can only be a good thing IMHO.

No we arre not, and the questions are not exactly the same...
Aeson wants to know what happens if the city is unhappy, I want to know if the pop-points will become unhappy when they are forced leave the city (and in that case of cource if that is left when they join another/found a new)

	17-04-2002 21:12									#55
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I didnīt see a fix for the annoying "re-fortifying of upgraded units" bug/feature.

IIRC it was still there in 1.17f...

	17-04-2002 21:16									#56
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quote: No we arre not, and the questions are not exactly the same...

Doh! For a minute there I though I might be promoted to ACS Civ III File Manager...

The "Disband City" option sounds like a very important part of the patch. Could really be exploited if set up wrong, like disbanding discontent in 1.16f.

And if workers carried unhappiness... give them to the AI!

	17-04-2002 21:17									#57
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quote: Editor: Fixed some bugs with Add/Delete buttons.

Does this mean you can add units now in the editor (without using hacked tools and a lot of debugging)?

	17-04-2002 21:18									#58
	Re: Re: it's here: 1.21F PATCH DETAILS Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by fezick31 does this mean we have to start with culturaly linked postitions? If so, erg .

Why? IMO it gets more realistic this way and you get to make another strategic decision which civ to play based on starting locations.

Itīs like the board game really, even if you get Africa with all 8 players present you can still win if you play your cards right (and has some luck with the calamities).

	17-04-2002 21:20									#59
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Exelent news, these improvement may actualy make a WWII scenario possible!!!
As long is there is going to be some way of editing save game files (all that is needed is to be able to create cities and units a way that is coherent with a 1930s-40s europe and the rest of the world) Is there going to be a way to modify dates? it don't look like it to me
I like the idea of allowing player restarts, like back in Civ II perhaps? (kill on civ and have another pop up with the same techs in a new unexplored location)
Era_none techs will allow civ specific terrain bonus
Modified HP will allow more realistic difference between tanks and infantry. tanks have good stats but low HP (not V. numerous) Infantry has low stats but high HP (take ages to kill of all those rifle men). This will allow anti-tank or anti-infantry artillery (for anti-tank high BStr but low ROF, anti-infantry artillery would have low Bombard str but high ROF) this could allow machine gun nests and Panzerfausts to be acurately represented for example.

	17-04-2002 21:22									#60
	Re: Re: Re: it's here: 1.21F PATCH DETAILS Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Why? IMO it gets more realistic this way and you get to make another strategic decision which civ to play based on starting locations. Itīs like the board game really, even if you get Africa with all 8 players present you can still win if you play your cards right (and has some luck with the calamities).

Because I don't like to play against the same civ every time I play a specific civ. This game is about what if's, not what was.

Besides, I think Sir Ralph hit it on the head. It does belong in the set up screen.