17-04-2002 21:25									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Aeson And if workers carried unhappiness... give them to the AI!

Well, if made right they should only be unhappy with a certain regime. Which means that handing them over to the AI would make then assimilate fast in the AI cities, as they were unhappy with you. Now, I don't think it works that way ,but one can hope

	17-04-2002 21:37									#62
	Remove this text

Will Player Restart restart another civ then the ones you play against (if availiable) or will it restart the same civ?

	17-04-2002 21:42									#63
	Put an end to popups!

The statcked movement army bug that they talk about is one that allowed you to unload an army.

For example, lets say you had 3 tanks in a city, 2 of them in an army. If you used the "j" key and moved those tanks all at once, the army would be unloaded.

	17-04-2002 21:45									#64
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yep, Gramphos, I'm also worried about the sav compression & changes. Hopefully, they're still readable

	17-04-2002 21:48									#65
	Re: Re: Re: Re: it's here: 1.21F PATCH DETAILS Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by fezick31 Because I don't like to play against the same civ every time I play a specific civ. This game is about what if's, not what was. Besides, I think Sir Ralph hit it on the head. It does belong in the set up screen.

Yeah, well...I get your point. It IS kind of boring always playing the same board game with the same people. Maybe they should´ve left it as an option...

	17-04-2002 21:49									#66
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All of these changes look really good for the mod makers! I don't know that I really like the decreased map sizes, but apparently they are changable through the editor, so I can make them big again. I must say I am very impressed with everything so far, now let's see how it actually works!

	17-04-2002 22:03									#67
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa Finally Bombers and Artillery are able to kill units!! Why did they remove the mounted option in the editor? I thought that prevents those units from entering mountainous terrain? ata

No, that's Wheeled. Mounted didn't do a single thing before, there was no reason to have it in.

	17-04-2002 22:07									#68
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by jimmyh Some thing tells me they don't want us to play with the save game files!!! Probably been forced in by Infogrames.

No it's because sometimes altering the save game file can cause the game to crash. They're just trying to prevent people from getting aggravated. It's going to make it more of a hassle to test out mod changes though. I'm not sure if I like that one.

	17-04-2002 22:07									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

"* Editor: Exposed AI to AI trade rate.

* Adjusted advance trading rates for AI."

I wonder how trading will work now? I take it that the massive tech-trading has been toned down.

	17-04-2002 22:08									#70
	Re: it's here: 1.21F PATCH DETAILS Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by MarkG Increased corruption/waste fighting ability of courthouses and police stations.

Does this mean that cities with these improvements won't be "completely corrupt" (i.e. only produce one shield and no commerce)? I hope so, because in 1.17f, certain cities were utterly useless due to corruption. It would be nice to be able to improve their production somewhat, if enough effort is put in to them.

quote: Increased waste fighting ability of We Love The King Day.

I hope this will make We Love the * Day powerful enough to make players aim to get their cities to celebrate. In 1.17f, celebrations were nice but strategically unimportant.

quote: War chariots now upgrade to knights.

My favorite civ gets better!

quote: Adjusted advance trading rates for AI.

This is very vague. As Arrian pointed out, only playtesting will determine if research is now viable on the higher difficulties. Note that tech devaluation hasn't been changed (as far as I can see).

quote: The maximum food a tile with a city on it can produce has been changed to 2.

Why?

quote: Fixed bug with how shields were calculated for population hurrying. The first citizen is now worth 20 shields instead of 40 shields, just like all the other citizens.

This is really nice. I like the concept of pop-rushing, and any attempt to make it balanced (i.e. not feel like cheating) is great in my book.

Hm, I didn't quote the Disband City option, but it's the most important addition, I think. Does this mean that I can right-click any city, anytime and disband it as though it were being razed? Do I get anything back (most probably, a Settler)?

A interesting use for cities then would be as inteference in the early land grab. If you know where the AI is attempting to place their cities, just found yours a couple of squares away to get them to back off. Then disband and place the city where you want to when they leave. I think you could really get the AI running around in circles with this one.


Dominae

	17-04-2002 22:13									#71
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Franses Now that means you can have negative HP! Would this mean the unit dies directly after it is build?

Hmm, maybe I can now build my suicide squad.

	17-04-2002 22:13									#72
	Re: Re: it's here: 1.21F PATCH DETAILS Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Dominae quote: The maximum food a tile with a city on it can produce has been changed to 2. Why?

probably to tone down ICS...a lot of people hve been complaining about it.

that's my guess anyway.

	17-04-2002 22:16									#73
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Can any Firaxian comment on whether the AI tech-trading has been toned down? All in all, it looks like a very exciting patch.

	17-04-2002 22:23									#74
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

**Editor: Fixed some bugs with Add/Delete buttons.

That means that i no longer add new civilizations via Rename -> ESC -> "a" ?
What happen with my actual mod? I succesfully add 12 new civilizations and the game plays very well (still crashes on F4 and F7). Can i still use my mod with 1.21f?
CMT still works for adding new civilizations?

Cya!

	17-04-2002 22:26									#75
	Re: Re: Re: it's here: 1.21F PATCH DETAILS Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by fezick31 probably to tone down ICS...a lot of people hve been complaining about it. that's my guess anyway.

I thought that the only way to get a city to produce over 2 food on the center tile (under Despotism anyway) was to have a special resource there (i.e. Wheat). I'm sure ICS doesn't depend on placing all cities on food-rich resources.


Dominae

	17-04-2002 22:28									#76
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Sweet! I really like the HP bonus thing! I'm going to add identical but HP beefier units that cost 1 pop point, for those who like to have fewer but stronger units. Plus make armoured units have more HP.

Love that more resources can now be shown.

Also looks like changes will make game more balanced. More corruption fightin power!

Hope there's something to replace the lost god mode save cheat. That was really really helpful to check if the AI was able to make use of the mods I made.

	17-04-2002 22:28									#77
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

* Updated resource icon loading so that it's not hard-coded.
Any number of resource icons can now be loaded from resources.pcx as
longs they are 49x49 with a 1-pixel border (and don't forget to update
resource_shadows.pcx).

Yes, no more having to check my mulitple icons to see which resource it actually is. They'll all look different! Thank you!

I'm going to miss those gov specific wonder effects that linger though, I was just getting to like those.

	17-04-2002 22:32									#78
	Re: Re: Re: Re: it's here: 1.21F PATCH DETAILS Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Dominae I thought that the only way to get a city to produce over 2 food on the center tile (under Despotism anyway) was to have a special resource there (i.e. Wheat). I'm sure ICS doesn't depend on placing all cities on food-rich resources. Dominae

*shrug*

beats me

	17-04-2002 22:36									#79
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

**Editor: Fixed some bugs with Add/Delete buttons.

That means that i no longer add new civilizations via Rename -> ESC -> "a" ?
What happen with my actual mod? I succesfully add 12 new civilizations and the game plays very well (still crashes on F4 and F7). Can i still use my mod with 1.21f?
CMT still works for adding new civilizations?

Cya!

	17-04-2002 22:38									#80
	Yea! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

All I can say is good work. My favourite changes:

1. The ability for lethal bombardment. My question is does the flag work by the attacking unit or the one being attacked. For instance, I like having infantry survive bombardment since I don't think many wars are won through wiping out soldiers through bombardment. Ships however should be sunk through bombardment and tanks destroyed.

2. The ability to remove options from the game menu. Key to making a good clean mod.

3. The ability to remove redundant civs. This is awesome. No mod needs that many civs. I was hoping for this one.


And my final question is what about existing mods? are they pooched? I hope not!!!

	17-04-2002 22:39									#81
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

duplicate doh!

	17-04-2002 22:51									#82
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

What does it mean, to be able to remove "redundant" civs?

Patch looks good

	17-04-2002 22:53									#83
	Damn... Remove this text

I still want to see the city radius on the main map view more than anything. SMAC/X had this, and for terraforming/land working it is very convienient. Yet in Civ III, unless you want the ugly gridlines on, you have to click open the damn city display, check its borders, and then go back to your worker and give it its orders. A large pain in the ass, and, I feel, a backward step in the gameplay. It's so much easier to have it right there on the map. Is there any way I could force the game to display this?

	17-04-2002 23:03									#84
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

hi , huh everyone hé

okay , so , lets get this correct , ya cant restrict movement in the mountains , but ya could give a movement bonus , or take it away on the 3 different sea squares ? , bong , someting seems not right with it , why not keep mountain restriction and ad the sea option .

and how can they know if one uses it or not , their spyware cant be that good , was there a poll or so , ....................????????
i did not see it


allas , have a nice day

	17-04-2002 23:15									#85
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Miznia: I mean that from what I read you can have a mod that only allows certain civs to be played. For instance if you were doing Falkland Island Mod then you can limit the mod to be played by just Argentina and Great Britain. Very handy if you want to make just about any mod.

	17-04-2002 23:22									#86
	Increase Your PM Length

hi ,



idea , Gramphos , maybe something for you as well ;

starting location(s) , in the editor , and just have two fields per civ , one field giving the latitude the other the longitude .

have a nice day

	17-04-2002 23:26									#87
	Re: it's here: 1.21F PATCH DETAILS Increase the size of your Attachments

Looks good. I especially like

quote: Originally posted by MarkG * Editor: Added HP bonus to the Units page. The bonus can be anywhere from -20 to +20. * Editor: Added new unit abilities to allow bombarding to be lethal against land and/or sea units. * Editor: Added multiple AI strategies for units. *Any number of resource icons can now be loaded from resources.pcx as longs they are 49x49 with a 1-pixel border (and don't forget to update resource_shadows.pcx). * Fixed building prerequisites to allow buildings to require buildings that are bestowed by other buildings but only if 1 is required. If more than 1 or required, they must actually be built. * Wonders now work with the government specific field. * Fixed bug that caused government-specific wonders and improvements to continue functioning when the government is changed. * Updated water unit movement to take into account the cost of the terrain type.

These'll make the mod I'm working on much cooler. Too bad I'm going to washington this weekend, I'll have to wait to try the new patch.

P.S. please add a minimap in the next patch. Thank you.

	17-04-2002 23:46									#88
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

A couple points:

- The culturally linked starting locations option has been moved to the player setup screen since having it as a preference was pointless being that changing it during the game had no effect.

- The Mounted ability was removed because it had no effect on the game. A Mounted unit was no different than a non-Mounted unit, all other stats being equal. We used it initially to prevent some units from getting in helicopters (if NOT Mounted AND NOT Wheeled) but we replaced that concept with the Foot Soldier ability before shipping the original game.

- Existing mods should still work. Anything we added in this patch that is missing from your mod should be automatically added when you start a game with it. Note, however, that any changes to the default rules will not be included in your modified rules unless you manually make those changes to your mods (this has been the case with all previous versions as well). BIC files are backwards-compatible.

- Issues with upgrading and fortifying have been fixed (I think that was missing from the readme). If units were upgraded while fortified they will stay fortified after upgrading.

- Restarting civs has always been a feature. The new option allows you to turn it off.

	17-04-2002 23:57									#89
	Get a bigger avatar today!

hi ,


one has just spend a couple dys on a map and on a mod , .....then that person starts to play , and play , its a 255x255 map , so about a week later the player sees certainly that he forget something , in his rush , .........mamamiaaaaa

so , a cheat would do a lot here , Firaxis ,..........

hmmmm , so foot / mouted , will we see units like a catapult moving over mountains ? , fun , must be nice with tha snow , .....

what about some "blank space" for units , huh , one could even use the pics of the existing units but with other capabilities .

what about corruption , sometimes one can not build 2 wonders , at least one of them , you give for example both "lowers corruption"


have a nice day

	18-04-2002 00:04									#90
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thanks Mike for posing some clarification. And to the Firaxis team for a big patch that must have taken some work.

quote: - Existing mods should still work. Anything we added in this patch that is missing from your mod should be automatically added when you start a game with it. Note, however, that any changes to the default rules will not be included in your modified rules unless you manually make those changes to your mods (this has been the case with all previous versions as well). BIC files are backwards-compatible.

However, I think I get it

OK. So the mod that you make can still *run* on the patched game. But, if the default rules were changed then I must match those changes if I want them in the mod. Makes sense.

I can breath a sigh of relief.