20-04-2002 02:11									#1
	Summaries of the chat Get a bigger avatar today!

Shall we try to put up a few summaries of the "chat". Personally I think UberKrux hit the target before his demise.

	20-04-2002 02:23									#2
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Ya catch more flies with honey is all I can say...

LOL "Civ 3 general moved to the bottom"

	20-04-2002 02:29									#3
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The chat can easily be summerized in two words that were repeated by the members of the civ3 dev team who seemed to be stuck in an infinate loop. "NO COMMENT" They're not winning any friends with their current attitude towards their end user, I'll tell you that

Everyone choses a path eventually, right or wrong, and I think Fireaxes is going down the wrong one, but best of luck to them and their company


Maj.GHOB

	20-04-2002 02:37									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker Ya catch more flies with honey is all I can say... LOL "Civ 3 general moved to the bottom"

I'm sorry I dont get that

	20-04-2002 03:32									#5
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It was what the Firaxians said they'd like to see the next time they come to Apolyton , the Civ 3 general forum moved to the bottom of the list.

It was a joke, because of all the 'negative' reviews.

And catching more flies with honey refers to the people calling the firaxis guys 'idiots', spamming with their names, etc.

	20-04-2002 03:50									#6
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Well I think that some people do overdo it a little (even when they're humorous). I missed the early part of the chat, the java version didnt work for me so I missed Uberkrux comments and banishment. I agreed with UberKrux sentiments if not his method in his closed thread. Up until this afternoon I was patient (I think). I thought the patch looked great but then I found that we couldnt add units. They then failed to mention anywhere that this would be the case, and then refused to comment on the matter when repeatedly asked during the "chat".

I dont know why firaxis persists in this fashion? I mistakenly believed things were changing, but they're not.

Last edited by SpencerH on 20-04-2002 at 03:59

	20-04-2002 03:53									#7
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Here's a summary:
whine,whine, obnoxious whine.

	20-04-2002 03:56									#8
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Well, seems like I didn't miss anything.

Whining from the MP people, No comments from Firaxis.

Things I am already used to on this forum. Except, Firaxis won't even post a no comment in the forum.

	20-04-2002 03:58									#9
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I don't blame Firaxis one bit. It is well known that they can't comment on things too far in the future.

	20-04-2002 04:07									#10
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Everyone should cool their jets. Gramphos is already in the process of updating his utilities. One is already done.

It seems like they were figuring out the compression method, so hopefully his save editor will be updated too.

I think it was pretty predictable that there would be a barrage of protest about certain changes. Firaxis must have known that going in.

The biggest point of it is, if they are still here talking, they are most likely still working on the game. Same old story. Come back and check in from time to time. Meanwhile, some of us will continue to play and give feed-back to Firaxis.

	20-04-2002 04:10									#11
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Feedback that may, or may not, even be wanted. Because it's never confirmed. Firaxis doesn't have to say what they are doing, but " We'll take it under advisement" is better than nothing.

	20-04-2002 04:14									#12
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NYE you must be the most mellow guy I've seen on these forums. I had smoke commin out of my ears!

	20-04-2002 04:17									#13
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I read somewhere that the compression is standard zip compression. That may be useful to someone.

	20-04-2002 06:22									#14
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Summary? Oh yeah... OK. Here's from my perspective.

Some MP die hards certainly made their presence felt. Some had a very chaotic influence. Mark, true to form allowed alot of divergent opinions to be expressed.

'No Comment' is the official motto of Firaxis about any and all future plans, even the tiny ones. Hense it was hard to ask a lot of the meaningful questions. They replied NC to many types of questions they answered in the previous chat.

The editor is still a work in progress.

It is dangerous for computers when it rains in Hunt Valley (I think that was a code).

Major changes to game mechanics are now out of bounds for the developers. They are working on tuning, the editor (and MP according to Sid, not from the chat).

Soren indicated the AI should be much more resilient in it's unit choices.

Mark and Soren seemed to be very interested in any questions by the creative types. Gramphos obviously would be paid attention to, but others as well. Of course, the creative types had questions about the current editor and files, etc. Many of the rest of us were asking a lot of forward looking questions to which we received... 'No Comment'

I made a twot of myself by losing my brain when I got a chance to ask a few questions and deluged the chat with too many in too short an order... Oh well. What's new? Some others made bigger twots of themselves in other ways.

That's about all I can recall right at the moment. I'm sure other people will remember other things of significance.

	20-04-2002 06:22									#15
	Re: Summaries of the chat Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Shall we try to put up a few summaries of the "chat". Personally I think UberKrux hit the target before his demise.

No comment.


Seriously, I have no comment, because I learned little from it.

	20-04-2002 06:25									#16
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Thanks for that anyway, NYE. I wish now that I had made it possible for myself to participate.

	20-04-2002 07:40									#17
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither 'No Comment' is the official motto of Firaxis ...

Actually, that is default response to any question which does not appear on the Infogrammes "You are allowed to answer" list.

	20-04-2002 07:54									#18
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Does anybody have a log of the chat?

-- twistedx

	20-04-2002 07:55									#19
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After reading this summary I am more convinced than ever of the stubborn, patronizing, and haughty arrogance of the dolts at Firaxis. And that's something they've already proved over and over with their beta game, unwelcome changes, and by refusing to give the fans what we really want.

Just watch. They will next have the gall to next try to sell us some MP, XP, scenario, or other variant of Civ III.

	20-04-2002 07:58									#20
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quote: Originally posted by ACooper Here's a summary: whine,whine, obnoxious whine.

Yes, but ...

you should visit Spectator's very recent thread 'Specific starting points'.

Tell me, is this normal/fair?

AJ

	20-04-2002 08:02									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle After reading this summary I am more convinced than ever of the stubborn, patronizing, and haughty arrogance of the dolts at Firaxis.

I for one do not blame Firaxis. They signed on with Hasbro Interactive, who then sold out to Infogrammes. From everything I have seen thus far, and that includes games besides Civ3, Infogrammes is the villian. They probably told Firaxis it was "their way or the highway". Seeing that Firaxis has already invested a years worth of developement they had to cave or be left out Civ.

The best thing that could happen for Civ players would be for EA to buy the Civ franchise from Infogrammes. Both Sid and Firaxis have a good working relationship with EA, and EA is a company with a solid rep in the PC game industry.

	20-04-2002 08:15									#22
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quote: Originally posted by twistedx Does anybody have a log of the chat? -- twistedx

I put up the transcript of the part that i participated in in this thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=47906

	20-04-2002 08:30									#23
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Oh. One other major revelation. The public beta team had a major influence on the released patch. Their testing is what resulted in the skipping from 17 to 21. They uncovered bugs that had to be debugged anew.

I guess we only have some of our-selves to blame now.

	20-04-2002 09:05									#24
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Some MP die hards certainly made their presence felt. Some had a very chaotic influence. Mark, true to form allowed alot of divergent opinions to be expressed. sometimes too much? Mark and Soren seemed to be very interested in any questions by the creative types. Gramphos obviously would be paid attention to, but others as well. Of course, the creative types had questions about the current editor and files, etc. wasn't this what the chat was about? patch 1.21f??!!

i only was in for about the last 20 min., but the mp thing was certainly annoying!!

	20-04-2002 09:58									#25
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one of my favorite things from the chat was upon enternig, they mentioned the thunderstorm and warned their power might go out, or perhaps an internet wire pulled. either way.

anyway, i asked several questions, and got a "no comment" to all of them. they didnt even asnwer if they were ever planning a minimap for the editor. anything would be better than "no comment". i would have rather heard "we haven't discussed it", it's like pleading the 5th (American Constitution, don't have to testify against yourself), you still come out looking guilty.

multiplayer is understandable, desipte my desires to know where it stands. if there is a gag order on MP, which there may very well be, then i understand.

but they were throwing out that "No comment" crap every 9 out of 10 questions, in my case they didn't answer ANY of my questions.

eventully i just forgot the whole thing and left. i don't think i got out of line until the bannifcation for changing my name to "Soren-Why-Does-Your-AI-Suck". i'll admit that was a bit much , but i'm very angry at the firaxian reserved tongues.

	20-04-2002 10:05									#26
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alva848.

Yes. If Mark has a failing it is being too tolerant. But then, that's why I'm here and not on some other civ site. I like the 'freedom' of Poly, believe it or not. Some prefer cfc. To each his/her own. I'll take arguments with Lib over stifled debate any day. Believe it or not, I learned a bit from Lib.

Yes about the 1.21 theme, but the Firaxians were hand-cuffed from answering even the most basic extrapolative questions based on the state of the game as of 1.21. In the last chat they were game for at least a little speculation. Not in the least this time.

The MP thing... Kids will be kids... They want what they want, and they want it NOW.

	20-04-2002 10:07									#27
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The MP thing... Kids will be kids... They want what they want, and they want it NOW.

or like contract bound adults who were under the impression that multiplayer was out of box.

	20-04-2002 10:08									#28
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Yes KruX, but can't you believe that there may be some contract that prohibts ANY speculative or promising expression? I've seen it before in other situations. Firaxis is not alone in this venture.

	20-04-2002 10:10									#29
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Yes KruX, but can't you believe that there may be some contract that prohibts ANY speculative or promising expression? I've seen it before in other situations. Firaxis is not alone in this venture.

i'm just saying it's bad businesws to promise something, and then to revoke it (and not even officially mind you, it was leaked out by an email, if you call correctly. Firaxis never mentioned it, and probably never would have). also, they claimed MP would be released early spring. May approaches quickly.

	20-04-2002 10:16									#30
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Yes KruX. I believe you that you are p*ssed about MP. But as you indicated, you knew before the release date. You could have waited to buy the game until you could have MP out of the box, right?

I understand you are frustrated by the time required to make MP, but why act in such a way as to disrupt an event being attended by many, many people.

It appears that the developers have a plan as to how to bring the game along. First get SP right, then scenarios, then MP. I can see the logic in the progression. You will get a better MP product in the end. Hopefully one you can play for years.