22-04-2002 00:03									#61
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Yes, it was only one point. But it's the only point I'm talking about, though all of you guys find something (and may it be yet so tiny) to support his point. But it's just wrong and bullsh!t.

Why is it that now you come up with that puny "it's only one point" argument? Just five minutes ago your arguments were totally different. Reminds me of all the attempts to discuss issues with some people from school (smart ones, don't worry ); as soon as you'd have countered their last point, a reply like "oh, whatever" or "but that's only one point" would occur. But anyway, if you are convicned now that that single point is wrong, then there was indeed a lot of sense in my work. Success!

Or not? :hm:

	22-04-2002 00:05									#62
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Just for being complete: as I have said several times in this thread by now, I find that point important enough to let the article go under "claptrap". Sprayber can'T take people seriously that have 2 fun lines in a big programm of sophisticated arguments. I can't take people seriously that mix up very basic principles of politics. And the author did just that. I just don't want to read it, I KNOW (at least I think I do) it must be full of crap if he got such a simple thing wrong.

	22-04-2002 00:07									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion And BeBro - being so (author) bold is indeed a sign of not being worthy of being taken seriously. If you only stopped designing things and left your house for one minute, you could see extremist groups. And then you'd notice how silly it is to call those guys Neo Nazis.

At least I´m creative

	22-04-2002 00:09									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion I just don't want to read it, I KNOW (at least I think I do) it must be full of crap if he got such a simple thing wrong.

Ok, you win. I can´t compete with people who have the ability to know the content of an article they never read completely. Seems the force is with you.

	22-04-2002 00:09									#65
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Bah no relation. Neo nazis are scum

muslim fundamentalists are... err... disturbed.

Big difference

	22-04-2002 00:14									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion I know your spelling doesn't make any sense to me, Spotty Kropotty. In case you lack the intellectual ability to get other people's points, then I'll explain it again, just for you: I'm trying to show you that people with coloured hair that burn US flags wearing Palestinian-style scarves are not Neo Nazis but extreme leftists (or moderate ones among the extremes if you want me to be un-general). It isn't actually that hard to get.

1) Like your spelling makes any sense either.

2) Oh do be a stupid bastard and mess up me with things I haven't said at all.

3) I've got that years ago. It's your that started to inslut me 'cause I said that nep-nazis often are confused and

4) called me stupid since I in some way should agree with the author witch I said

5) Said that I refused your idea that racism and anti-semitism is leftist and then said that myself. makes no sense at all. I never said anything against you on that point

6) starting to post pics with syndicalists and calling the neo nazis and then blaiming us from not understanding the difference between extremists on the left from nazis. yes that is confusing.

7) Take your damn medication!

	22-04-2002 00:21									#67
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I still haven't understood your point.

you're saying that those couldn't be neo-nazis because they were wearing a sort of clothing that is associated with left-wingers?

	22-04-2002 00:22									#68
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That's the most likely possibility.

If they were deranged Neo Nazis they would be an exception and therefore no social danger.

	22-04-2002 00:29									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Natan Left-wing anti-Semitism certainly exists. Anti-Jewish persecutions were just as if not more nasty in the USSR than in interwar Poland, and certainly were way, way nastier than anything which happened in the United States.

That's a pretty extreme example. Anti-semitism in this chase could be explained by old traditions rathen than communism. From a historical perspective racism was more common in the rhetorics of the right than the left ("White mans burden", the right in Sweden and in many other places and countries often admired how Hitler brought order to Germany etc) but no side was perfect. They where all part of their context in some way.

	22-04-2002 00:32									#70
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quote: In der Nacht vor dem 27. Januar wurden auf dem Heidefriedhof fünf Gedenk-Stelen in einem Stelen-Rondell für die Opfer des NS mit roter Farbe geschändet. Dabei wurden drei antisemitische Sprüche hinterlassen: Einer zum "Gedenken" an "ermordete Palästinenser"; der zweite zum "israelischem Faschismus", der dritte lautete "Tod den jüdischen Mördern". Im Kontext des Gedenktages für die Opfer des NS, sind die Sprüche u.a krasse Relativierungen der Verbrechen der Nazi-Deutschen. Die Täterschaft bei Dresdner Neo-Nazis zu sehen liegt nahe, da z.B. die NPD Dresden schon seit Jahren durch offensiven Antisemitismus bekannt ist. Am 9. November 2001 störten Dresdner Neo-Nazis die Weihe der neuen Synagoge (> 09 nov 01). Das Bekunden von Pro-Palästina-Solidarität (im Zusammenhang mit Antisemitismus) ist seit kurzem in der Neo-Nazi-Szene üblich geworden. (z.B. NPD-Demo in Jena am 14. April 2001 unter dem Motto "Solidarität mit Palästina"). Auch die sog. Pali-Tücher werden zunehmend von Neo-Nazis getragen, vor allem bei politischen Aktionen.

Source: http://venceremos.antifa.net/ddneonazis.html

For those who don´t understand it: It´s from a website that monitors neonazi activities in the city of Dresden. The last sentence says (freely translated):

Also these Palestinian-style scarves are more and more weared by neonazis, especially during political actions (Maybe the translation is not the best, but it seems the author of Dal´s arcticle isn´t sooo wrong, hm?)

	22-04-2002 01:01									#71
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.. good job BeBro .

Kropotkin:

quote: That's a pretty extreme example. Anti-semitism in this chase could be explained by old traditions rathen than communism. From a historical perspective racism was more common in the rhetorics of the right than the left ("White mans burden", the right in Sweden and in many other places and countries often admired how Hitler brought order to Germany etc) but no side was perfect. They where all part of their context in some way.

the thing nazis say is that there are three ways: Capitalism , Communism , and Nazism. They hate both Capitalism and Communism . It's been clearly said. "jewish bankers control the world" ... read some stuff by WFHermans. ( the nazi troll poster, not the writer )

	22-04-2002 01:03									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti .. good job BeBro .

I wonder if Andy will show up here again. Well, I think his excuse towards us all shouldn´t be too long....

	22-04-2002 01:08									#73
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nah

my guess: he'll try to attack th credibility of the source. ....


it is a good source, right?

	22-04-2002 01:10									#74
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quote: read some stuff by WFHermans

Do I have to? I rather don't. Pretty please.

	22-04-2002 01:13									#75
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Well, it is not an official news source (it is from a organization against neonazis), but it is absolutely as good as the sites where he found the pics he posted here, so if he complains about my sources, I´ll complain about his too

	22-04-2002 01:15									#76
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Kropo : you were a bad boy. you must be PUNISHED !!!
BeBro : sounds good enough.

	22-04-2002 01:34									#77
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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by BeBro
(it is from a organization against neonazis)
[\QUOTE]

Although I'm very reserved against any group having "anti-" in their name, I'd trust anti-fascists in this point. They don't gain anything from lying here.

	22-04-2002 01:43									#78
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So , BeBro , I guess we won.

you did most of the job though .

	22-04-2002 01:50									#79
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Well, it was a nice little debate, but now it´s late for me - good night everybody

	22-04-2002 01:55									#80
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quote: But you also must know that all lefties and righties alike don't share the same views. Communists, Black Panthers, Green Peace, Libertarians, and Democrats are all lefties, yet they rarely agree on most issues. Likewise, Republicans(US), Fascists (Nazis), Islamic Fundamentalists, and KKK(Aryan Nation) are righties and don't share the same ideas.

Libertarians aren't on the left . Most Libs I know voted for Bush over Gore in 2000 (if faced with only voting for those two).

Oh, and I kinda get what Echt was getting at. I mean, it doesn't make much sense for Neo-Nazis to wear Palestinian scarves when they would like to kill Palestinians as well.

	22-04-2002 01:59									#81
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well , apparently jews are much more up in the list. look at BeBro's quote , and my quote.

	22-04-2002 02:03									#82
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Bashing jews is of cource a holy tradition for those pests but since I hardly think they can tell the difference between palestinians and Turks (there's a lot of turks in germany) it seems a bit strange. But then again, neo-nazism is a strange phenonomen...

	22-04-2002 02:07									#83
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quote: but since I hardly think they can tell the difference between palestinians and Turks (there's a lot of turks in germany) it seems a bit strange

they're crazy , not stupid.

Hitler met many arab leaders during WWII, and allied with them against the brits. Several countries in the mid-east were under control of pro-nazi regimes during WWII.

	22-04-2002 02:12									#84
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The best and lasting example of the links between Nazi-Germany and the mid-east is Iran. Former Persia changed it name to its present name that means land of the ayrans.

However. Their connections should hardly be considered ideological but strategic. The same goes for Japan.

	22-04-2002 02:19									#85
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So it's all good then


We can't possibly blame muslims of something. It's all because they're poor.

	22-04-2002 02:28									#86
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Dalgetti, you seem not to understand at all the European far-right. They've been railing against the Turks and Algerians, and other Muslims for quite a while now. Many of the far-right parties want to kick out the Muslims first.

I wouldn't think Neo-Nazis would like Arabs at all.

	22-04-2002 02:31									#87
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Don't be to hard on him Imran. Dalgetti is just trying to find out all he can about that great conspiracy against himself.

	22-04-2002 02:34									#88
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I understand the european far-right very well. But never the less there is cooperation between islamic extremist groups and far-right groups in europe. read Snapcase's post. You don't see him as a pro-Israeli poster , right?

	22-04-2002 02:38									#89
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Yes it happens from time to time that extremists from different sides get together against a common enemy. That doesn't mean that mixed gangs of german neo-nazis and turks roam the streets around at night in search of jews. Normally they'll fight or run at the first sight of each other.

	22-04-2002 02:46									#90
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turks are not Islamic fundamentalists!!!!!
I didn't claim that turks and Neo-Nazis are united in Germany.

What I do Claim is that There is a connection, and now , it appears, a strong bond, between Neo-Nazis , and far-right , white supremacy groups ,and Muslim Fundamentalists, on a global scale.