25-04-2002 23:04									#61
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It's certainly not an actual working definition, but a rule of thumb is that any mental/emotional/whatever state that causes one of be a danger to oneself or others is a mental illness. Pedophilia certainly fits the bill.

	25-04-2002 23:05									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola Inded ther is the possiblility of a married person becoming a priest, and it occurs rarely, but when someone does so HE IS STILL REQUIRED TO BECOME CELIBATE.

Reeeeaallly. So why did you even mention that then Dinodoc? ITs not relevant and just confuses things. We are talking about celebacy.

	25-04-2002 23:06									#63
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quote: Behavioral health care professionals call disorders, illnesses or diseases that have prominent emotional, behavioral, and psychological symptoms mental disorders

But why is pedophilia is a disorder?

	25-04-2002 23:08									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo But why is pedophilia is a disorder?

Because its bad. It causes people to do bad things to children.

	25-04-2002 23:08									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo But why is pedophilia is a disorder?

Why is it not fundamentally different from liking the color blue as you have been asserting?

	25-04-2002 23:10									#66
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Ramo--seriously, are you just trolling? I know you're not this dense.

	25-04-2002 23:15									#67
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Being attracted to children isnt a mental disorder. One can't help that, just as they can't help being straight or gay as argued billions of times.

However, one probably does have a mental disorder if they cannot control their impulse or cannot grasp the idea that it is wrong to defile a childs mind, body and their innocence.

If this in fact the case though, we must also assume rapists have a mental disorder as well right?

	25-04-2002 23:15									#68
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quote: It's certainly not an actual working definition, but a rule of thumb is that any mental/emotional/whatever state that causes one of be a danger to oneself or others is a mental illness. Pedophilia certainly fits the bill.

Is liking caffine a mental disorder?

quote: Why is it not fundamentally different from liking the color blue as you have been asserting?

Like I said earlier, you made the assertion that there's a fundamental difference; back it up.

quote: Because its bad. It causes people to do bad things to children.

Err.. yeah, that's nice. Anything that causes people to do bad things to children is a mental disorder? Is greed a mental disorder?

	25-04-2002 23:20									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Anything that causes people to do bad things to children is a mental disorder?

Thats not what I said. I was talking specifically about paedophillia.

	25-04-2002 23:21									#70
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quote: Ramo--seriously, are you just trolling? I know you're not this dense.

I'm just looking for a coherent definition.

The connotation I get from "mental disorder" is a lack of control over one's actions, which isn't accurate in the case of pedophilia.

It's just a different sexual preference, and should be treated as such until one acts on the preference.

	25-04-2002 23:22									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Like I said earlier, you made the assertion that there's a fundamental difference; back it up.

I have given you all the information that I used to base that assertion that it is a mental disorder on to which you've replied, "But why is pedophilia is a disorder?". I'd like to know why you consider it fundamentally the same as liking the color blue before we go any further. Surely you must have an objective reason for thinking that it isn't a mental disease, otherwise why even bring the point up?

	25-04-2002 23:23									#72
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quote: Thats not what I said. I was talking specifically about paedophillia.

Then you have no argument.

	25-04-2002 23:24									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo The connotation I get from "mental disorder" is a lack of control over one's actions,

Where did you get that idea from?

	25-04-2002 23:25									#74
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Dino, see the post above yours.

	25-04-2002 23:26									#75
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quote: Originally posted by drake Being attracted to children isnt a mental disorder. One can't help that, just as they can't help being straight or gay as argued billions of times. However, one probably does have a mental disorder if they cannot control their impulse or cannot grasp the idea that it is wrong to defile a childs mind, body and their innocence. If this in fact the case though, we must also assume rapists have a mental disorder as well right?

In a sense, they do. They are a variety of disorders that are common among rapists.

And just because someone "can't help it," it doesn't mean it's not a disorder. Schizophrenics can't help being schizophrenic. But they are a danger to themselves, and (rarely) to others. Pedphiles are most certainly a danger to others.

And substance abuse is a mental disorder, Ramo. Caffeine use? No. Abuse? Yes.

	25-04-2002 23:27									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Then you have no argument.

	25-04-2002 23:27									#77
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quote: Where did you get that idea from?

"Being gay isn't a mental disorder."

Why bring it up in the first place?

	25-04-2002 23:28									#78
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Goddammit Caligastia. Will you quit being sensible and making statements I agree with? I have enough problems as it is, without you fouling up my whole perception of the world.

	25-04-2002 23:29									#79
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quote: And substance abuse is a mental disorder, Ramo.

The appropriate analogy would be substance preference.

	25-04-2002 23:30									#80
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I'm sorry, but that statement made no grammatical sense to me. Can you try again?

	25-04-2002 23:30									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Why bring it up in the first place?

Drake was talking about an example where being in prison drove someone nuts which caused them to become gay.

	25-04-2002 23:30									#82
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand True, but also another reason to let priests marry, unless you want all homosexual priests.

I agree with you here 100%

	25-04-2002 23:32									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Goddammit Caligastia. Will you quit being sensible and making statements I agree with? I have enough problems as it is, without you fouling up my whole perception of the world.

	25-04-2002 23:38									#84
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A pedophile isnt a danger at all if he can control his impulses.

Fundamentally, it is ones actions that must determine "mental illness" not ones thoughts.

	25-04-2002 23:39									#85
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quote: I'm sorry, but that statement made no grammatical sense to me. Can you try again?

Is there any particular part of the sentence you don't understand?
The appropriate analogy to pedophilia would be substance preference, not abuse (the latter would be akin to acting on pedophilia).

quote: Drake was talking about an example where being in prison drove someone nuts which caused them to become gay.

I don't follow you...

	25-04-2002 23:40									#86
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Pedophelia or any other fetish, sexual preference, or perversion are not mental disorders.

There is nothing inheritely wrong with being attracted to kids, however there is something wrong with acting on it, because it is one of those things that can not be acted on without hurting someone else.

	25-04-2002 23:41									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I don't follow you...

You asked why I brought a particular statement up and I told you.

	25-04-2002 23:44									#88
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I agree with both Osweld and Ramo on a topic...god help me

	25-04-2002 23:45									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I'm just looking for a coherent definition. The connotation I get from "mental disorder" is a lack of control over one's actions, which isn't accurate in the case of pedophilia. It's just a different sexual preference, and should be treated as such until one acts on the preference.

How about this then: It's a disorder because we say ao. The American Psychiatric Association classifies pedophillia as a disorder so it is one. Yes it is possible that someone could have a sexual attraction to children and never act upon it, but such a person would probably suffer because of his abnormal desires. There are a lot of mentally ill peopl who function at near normal levels. People with anxiety disorders often live normal lives, even depressed people may live near normal lives, but bopth suffer. There are a number of personality disorders, such as passive agressiveness, schizoid, paranoid, etc. They are maladaptive patterns of behavior which interferes with a person's ability to function, and in most instances the person suffers to some extent because of them. Regarding homosexuality, the APA decided that we are the problem, not the homosexuals. The association decided that most homosexuals could function normally and would not suffer from their disorder if non-homosexuals would not persecute them. The problem with pedophillia is that the object of the pedophile's desire will definately suffer if he acts upon his desires.

	25-04-2002 23:45									#90
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Yes, and I don't see why the statement follows. From what I understand, drake was using "driving one nuts" as a euphemism for sexual frustration.

What are you implying about pedophilia, exactly?