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Tom201
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Amsterdam
Dec 2001
time: 05:19
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quote:
loinburger
When a teenager shoplifts then the damage he causes to others is minimal--give him a spanking, or send him to Juvie until he learns right from wrong.
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So the amount a teenager is able to think is judged by the amount of damage he causes? What if its some bigger crime, like mugging?
quote:
Give a teenager a child to take care of before the teenager is mentally and emotionally capable and then you're causing harm to the child. Unacceptable.
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Maybe we could agree that quite a lot of ppl. have sex for pleasure not to reproduce. I assume that applys to most of the teenagers having sex.
Than we maybe could also agree that there are a lot of effective ways to prevent pregnancy.
Or no?
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loinburger
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Sweet Sauce Jones
Jul 1999
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom201
So the amount a teenager is able to think is judged by the amount of damage he causes? What if its some bigger crime, like mugging? |
The amount of danger a teenager presents to those around him is judged by the amount of damage he causes (or has the potential to cause). A mugging, especially one resulting in death or severe injury, might very well get the teenager tried as an adult. Clearly, a teenager who kills for money is an order of magnitude more stupid and dangerous than a teenager who shopifts for thrills, and society takes this into account. Similarly, an abusive and/or neglectful teenaged parent is an order of magnitude more stupid and dangerous than the shoplifter.
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Maybe we could agree that quite a lot of ppl. have sex for pleasure not to reproduce. I assume that applys to most of the teenagers having sex. |
Sex is not the equivalent of eating a pizza or watching a movie. People who have sex for the wrong reasons ("I just want to feel loved" is the most common I've heard) usually wind up causing emotional damage to themselves and/or others, emotional damage that isn't associated with eating a pizza or watching a movie.
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Than we maybe could also agree that there are a lot of effective ways to prevent pregnancy. |
I think that Dr. Strangelove might have quoted the most pessimistic birth control statistics possible  , but the fact remains that birth control is by no means foolproof. If you're having sex, you need to be prepared for the consequences, and teenagers almost never are.
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Tom201
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Amsterdam
Dec 2001
time: 05:19
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quote:
Sex is not the equivalent of eating a pizza or watching a movie. People who have sex for the wrong reasons ("I just want to feel loved" is the most common I've heard) usually wind up causing emotional damage to themselves and/or others, emotional damage that isn't associated with eating a pizza or watching a movie. |
Would you agree that it is also possible to inflect the same Emotional Damage when I have a relationship with someone I dont sleep with, but betray him, say something evil, etc.?
I dont really see sex as a possible direct cause of Emotional Damage, more the other stuff in relationships.
quote:
I think that Dr. Strangelove might have quoted the most pessimistic birth control statistics possible , but the fact remains that birth control is by no means foolproof. If you're having sex, you need to be prepared for the consequences, and teenagers almost never are.
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Well nothing is 100% secure. You should do your best to keep it close to it, and thats it. Just the same like about anything else. You cant prevent some risk to die in a car accident, but you can try your best by not crossing the street on red for example. Noone suggest you should stay of the street in general.
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loinburger
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Sweet Sauce Jones
Jul 1999
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom201
Would you agree that it is also possible to inflect the same Emotional Damage when I have a relationship with someone I dont sleep with, but betray him, say something evil, etc.? |
Absolutely, but a non-sexual relationship doesn't carry the risk of pregnancy or STD's. Furthermore, the methods of causing emotional trauma that you described are a result of wickedness, not a result of lack of maturity or ignorance.
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I dont really see sex as a possible direct cause of Emotional Damage, more the other stuff in relationships. |
Hmm, one person is in the relationship for love, the other is in it for sex. This was the most common type of relationship I witnessed in jr. high and high school. Teenagers don't yet have the emotional maturity to recognize the difference between "love" and "sex" and instead often equate the two, and many don't have the moral maturity to recognize the difference between "self-interest" and "reciprocal interest," i.e. between "sex for my pleasure" and "sex for our pleasure."
quote:
You cant prevent some risk to die in a car accident, but you can try your best by not crossing the street on red for example. Noone suggest you should stay of the street in general. |
We do have a minimum age for driving, though. This doesn't eliminate the risks associated with being a pedestrian or motorist, but it does help to significantly reduce the risks by disallowing a high-risk group from driving. Similarly, there are still risks involved with anybody freely procreating, since it's impossible to be certain of who is and isn't going to be an abusive/neglectful parent--however, making it more difficult for members of a high-risk age group to procreate (by requiring parents' permission for marriage or a court's permission for emancipation, by having age of consent laws, etc.) will significantly reduce the risks of having children in abusive/neglectful living environments.
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Tom201
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Amsterdam
Dec 2001
time: 05:19
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Hm, STD's?
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Hmm, one person is in the relationship for love, the other is in it for sex. This was the most common type of relationship I witnessed in jr. high and high school. Teenagers don't yet have the emotional maturity to recognize the difference between "love" and "sex" and instead often equate the two, and many don't have the moral maturity to recognize the difference between "self-interest" and "reciprocal interest," i.e. between "sex for my pleasure" and "sex for our pleasure."
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The Parents as well as the Schools should teach about it. You dont solve those Problems with making Sex a tabu.
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We do have a minimum age for driving, though. This doesn't eliminate the risks associated with being a pedestrian or motorist, but it does help to significantly reduce the risks by disallowing a high-risk group from driving. Similarly, there are still risks involved with anybody freely procreating, since it's impossible to be certain of who is and isn't going to be an abusive/neglectful parent--however, making it more difficult for members of a high-risk age group to procreate (by requiring parents' permission for marriage or a court's permission for emancipation, by having age of consent laws, etc.) will significantly reduce the risks of having children in abusive/neglectful living environments. |
With such reasoning you could set the AOC more and more higher. Cose the new high-risk age group is always the one on the younger end with less experience. You dont suggest a AOC of 30 or 40 maybe?
Besides the Laws arent working. Teenagers have sex no matter if it is allowed or not. The diffrence is just if they tell anyone, esspecially their parents, who could than give them advice, teach them about it, etc.
Such Laws are counterproductive. You can clearly see this when comparing teenage pregnancy rates, which are in Europe in the Netherlands with the most liberal Laws the lowest.
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Tom201
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Amsterdam
Dec 2001
time: 05:19
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quote:
So you're saying that age of consent laws cause increased teenaged pregnancy rates? |
My point was it has indirect influences:
"... The diffrence is just if they tell anyone, esspecially their parents, who could than give them advice, teach them about it, etc. "
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by OzzyKP
Because the majority of people have an irrational hatred for nambla and youth rights, and want to roast the one or two people defending them on a spit. |
NAMBLA is not about youth rights, fool! It's members are all adults. They're not advocating on behalf of sexually active teens, they're promoting sexual contact between adult men and prepubertal boys!
Their motto is: "Eight is too late."
Any further comments? Which one of you is going to argue on behalf of a first grader's right to have a thirty year old cop a feel?
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Dr Strangelove
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Well it's about time we straightened things out then.
NAMBLA is an organization that advocates in favor of sexual adventures between little boys and grown men. At one time they even organized such activities first in the US (at that time they were the New Jersey Man-Boy Love Club ), and then outside the US in asia. The later activities were shut down by Interpol and the UN.
Is there anyone here who would seriously argue on behalf of hese pre-verts?
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:19
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I still disagree. Note that I am disgusted by the site, think that what they stand for and talk about is absolutely heinous, and it gives me the willies to even contemplate it. I can only imagine how much MORE disgusted I would be if I had children.
But that doesn't change the fact that if we were to shut them down and jail them simply for having a website and talking about it, we open the door to totally surrendering our rights to free speech.
Where should we stop? Because Neo-Nazi sites spew venomous fountains of hate, should we shut them down and jail them too?
Should we maybe burn a few books that don't sit well with "decent folk"?
Should we torch sites like http://www.whitehouse.org and jail their members for making a mockery of the US government and spreading disinformation (apparently, many of the people who go there spend quite some time actually believing they're actually ON the government's site).
What about jailing any and all artists who portray anything "questionable" in their work. Trent Reznor, Marylin Manson, and a whole boatload of painters and photographers ought to be put UNDER the jail if we allow such thinking to prevail.
And how far down that road do we have to go before it dawns on us that in our zeal to stamp out every inappropriate thought or vision, or idea in our society....in our efforts to create the perfect PC Universe, we have surrendered our most precious of freedoms.
And at that point, how hard will it be to get that freedom back?
I still maintain that the most responsible course of action here is to monitor the site and its members (in exactly the same way that white supremecist sites and members are monitored), and jail them as they move to act out their twisted desires (and, hopefully, with good monitoring, before they actually DO act them out).
They're twisted people who should be burned at the stake. My freedom to state that opinion is the same as their freedom to....think about the stuff they think about.
-=Vel=-
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28-04-2002 22:04
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