28-04-2002 00:41									#91
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quote: Just why do you think they fell apart economically at that time? Could it have been that they burned out trying to keep up with American military spending?

There was a considerable amount of disinformation given to the Russians about what the US was actually spending on somethings. They wasted money trying to keep up on things the US wasn't actually doing.

That plus the enormous expense and failure in Afganistan. The USSR just didn't have the reserves economicly or the flexibility politicaly that allowed the US to survive the Viet Nam debacle.

	28-04-2002 01:34									#92
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Yep. And I'll bet the Stinger missiles and other assistance given to the Mujahadeen (sp?) had a little bit to do with the Afghan debacle.

	28-04-2002 01:43									#93
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These are not the core reasons for USSR collapse. The collapse of a whole system has much deeper reasons than a military failure. The very reason of the soviet failure is that it wasn't able to reform itself before Gorbatchev (english sp. ?), and the economy begun its decay under Brejnev, just when the USSR seemed to be indestructible.
A limit in the extensive growth had been reached, and there was no way to have an intensive growth (i.e better quality products and production-lines, more variety etc.).
Plus the system became much less despotic than under Stalin (no more blind genocides) and it was tolerated to say bad things about the central power, as ;long as it wasn't publicly.
The belief a radical change was needed grew, esp. as the Glastnost didn't produce good results, and the national minorities revolted in 89 and later. The collapse truly comes from within, and what the US or the Vatican has done is marginal (even if it had something to do, I'm not saying it was completely useless)

	28-04-2002 01:44									#94
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX GREATEST ORATOR OF OUR TIME

If, that is, the definition of "orator" now means "read off the autocue".

My favourite Ronnie moment? When he formed the impression that Princess Diana was called "David".

	28-04-2002 01:44									#95
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New poll suggestion- "When did Ronnie's senility begin?".

	28-04-2002 02:39									#96
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quote: 1981 Tax cuts enacted. 1982 Recession sets in.

You have a warped view of history. Reagan was elected BECAUSE of a recession. Remember the statement, "Recession is when your neighbor loses his job, Depression is when you lose yours, and Recovery is when Carter loses his"? We had been in a recession since the late 70s.

	28-04-2002 03:23									#97
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist I'm socially right wing. Economically I'm anti-Socialism, but I don't hold free market Capitalism up as being an unalterable. unquestionable God.

Well, what's between a communist economy and capitalism is actually "regulated capitalism", and it's a left-winged idea

quote: I'm for the working man

That's a communist slogan



Come to the light, Nationalist. You're left-winged, it's just you don't know it. Free yourself from the bonds of the right and join us !

	28-04-2002 05:34									#98
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Zkribbler, the Grenada action was a good thing. Grenada was a pro-Cuba Marxist dictatorship. We replaced it with a democracy with the help of other caribbean democracies. It broke the Brezneveh Doctrine(Once a country goes communist, it stays communist).

Reagan's foreign policy was most responsible for breaking the Soviet Union. At the time he ascended to power during the Carter Regime, Communism was expanding around the world, as was other forms of anti-US governments with the Islamic Revolution in Iran(Carter failed to give full support to the Shah). Reagan's hard line policy did in the Soviet Union. He started an arms race that the Soviet Union impoverished itself trying to match. He put pressure on communist governments. all around the world, with actions such as sponsoring the Contras in Nicaraugua. The big thing however was sponsoring the mujaheddin in Afghanistan when they were fighting the USSR. That war further hurt the Soviet economy as well as provided for another disaster.

	28-04-2002 05:50									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Akka le Vil Come to the light, Nationalist. You're left-winged, it's just you don't know it. Free yourself from the bonds of the right and join us !

Give in to your feelings... feel your anger... feel your rage... come with me Akka... come join me in the DARK SIDE

	28-04-2002 07:21									#100
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist Give in to your feelings... feel your anger... feel your rage... come with me Akka... come join me in the DARK SIDE

Ok, but only in a SELF-destructing rage then

	28-04-2002 09:12									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Zkribbler, the Grenada action was a good thing.

But it is Congress that has the sole authority "[t]o declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water." (U.S. Constitution, Art. I, § 8.)

	28-04-2002 09:14									#102
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And since Vietnam when has that been followed?

Hell, even Vietnam wasn't approved by Congress until after it started.

Gulf War, Kosovo, Somalia, Afghanistan... ALL done without Congress' approval.

	28-04-2002 09:22									#103
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Reagan had to consult with Congress before he attacked Granada. The laws that Congress passed only required that he do it with some of them rather than all and in public. The President has something like 80 or 100 days to act unless Congress overturns his actions. They can also cut his funds if they are really annoyed. In fact they did cut his funds for Nicaragua which is when he decided to to ignore the Constitution.

The catch you see is that no war was declared. The President doesn't have to do that when American lives are at stake as long as it is a quick action. That was the legal fiction that Reagan used. There was an American school on Granada.

The US has been engaging in Miltary action without declaring war since Jefferson sent the Marines to Tripoli to attack the Barbary pirates.

	28-04-2002 09:25									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And since Vietnam when has that been followed? Hell, even Vietnam wasn't approved by Congress until after it started. Gulf War, Kosovo, Somalia, Afghanistan... ALL done without Congress' approval.

I don't know about Somalia and at that moment I am not sure about Afganistan for some reason. But the rest had Congressional aproval. They simply never bothered to declare war.

Johnson had the Tonkin Bay resolution. Bush got a majority of both houses to fund the Gulf War. Clinton did the same for Kosovo.

	28-04-2002 09:27									#105
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quote: I don't know about Somalia and at that moment I am not sure about Afganistan for some reason. But the rest had Congressional aproval. They simply never bothered to declare war.

Which goes against the Constitution. Just that no one cares anymore.

	28-04-2002 09:28									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Hell, even Vietnam wasn't approved by Congress until after it started.

We only had advisors in until Congress approved the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

Gulf War, Kosovo, Somalia, Afghanistan... ALL done without Congress' approval. [/QUOTE]

For the Gulf War there was formal Congressional approval. (I still think it should have been a Declaration of War, but they did some Congressional resolution instead. )

I admit, I don't remember anything pre-Kosova.

In Somalia, we were just supposed to be guarding food deliveries, but caught caught up in mission creep.

After 9/11, Congress gave the President the powers to use all necessary force to track down and punish the terrorists. Thus, it was another Gulf of Tonkin-type resolutions.

But with Grenada, Congress woke up one day to find out we had invaded another country. Same with Bush the Elder & Panama.

--Not that both operations were launched with good intentions. It's just that the decision makers didn't have the Constitutional authority to order this nation to go to war with another.

	28-04-2002 09:31									#107
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quote: For the Gulf War there was formal Congressional approval

Still wasn't started by Congress.

quote: We only had advisors in until Congress approved the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

We had troops in during Kennedy's time. Still not a declaration of war.

quote: Congress gave the President the powers to use all necessary force to track down and punish the terrorists. Thus, it was another Gulf of Tonkin-type resolutions.

But not a declaration of war.

Granada really isn't rare in keeping Congress in the dark.

	28-04-2002 09:35									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Granada really isn't rare in keeping Congress in the dark.

Well, true. They're good at doing that all by themselves.

	28-04-2002 10:04									#109
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I'll agree with you that military actions should have a declaration of war attached, but unfortunately that is rarely the case.

The Kosovo war never got Congressional approval and in fact I think Congress was largely hostile to that action.

	28-04-2002 11:55									#110
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I voted that Reagan was bad for America and the world.

He was your usual Republican who worshipped the upper class and kow towed to them. That's nothing new though.