26-04-2002 06:53									#1
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Should a man who wants the woman he got pregnant to have an abortion, should he have to pay child support if she chooses not to?

Should a legal system that supports abortion be in the right to force him to do so?

	26-04-2002 06:54									#2
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I don't think he should have to pay if he makes his wishes known and the conception was not voluntary on his part.

	26-04-2002 06:55									#3
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Yes, they are both responsible for the child. Whether there is an abortion or not is really a non-issue, as far as I am concerned.

	26-04-2002 06:56									#4
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i have a question:
does he have to if he legally relinquishes his rights?? that was an issue with my parents?...my dad wanted to give up his rights (not like the bastard had many) so that he didn't have to pay all of $75 a mo. in child support.

	26-04-2002 06:58									#5
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I'm pretty sure you have to pay whether or not you want to see your kids.

	26-04-2002 06:59									#6
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I would think so too.... but then wouldn't that only be the case if the person who had custody of the child remained single?

	26-04-2002 07:00									#7
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quote: Should a man who wants the woman he got pregnant to have an abortion, should he have to pay child support if she chooses not to?

Heh, we covered this in the past... I got yelled at from a bunch of people (me and someone else, I believe).

My belief was that the woman has the right to have an abortion is she does not want the pregancy. Basically, she has an 'out' if he makes the mistake. However, the man doesn't have that out if the woman wants the child and he does not. He must pay for that child if he makes a mistake and the woman wants to keep the kid.

	26-04-2002 07:01									#8
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As Krazy said, the only reason he could be excused is if the conception was not voluntary on his part. I cant imagine how it couldnt be, but if it wasnt then fair enough.

	26-04-2002 07:01									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Should a man who wants the woman he got pregnant to have an abortion, should he have to pay child support if she chooses not to? Heh, we covered this in the past... I got yelled at from a bunch of people (me and someone else, I believe). My belief was that the woman has the right to have an abortion is she does not want the pregancy. Basically, she has an 'out' if he makes the mistake. However, the man doesn't have that out if the woman wants the child and he does not. He must pay for that child if he makes a mistake and the woman wants to keep the kid.

Must have missed that one..

So what you are outlining Imran is a double standard then.

	26-04-2002 07:02									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia As Krazy said, the only reason he could be excused is if the conception was not voluntary on his part. I cant imagine how it couldnt be, but if it wasnt then fair enough.

Some would argue that the act was all the volunteering required.

	26-04-2002 07:03									#11
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Its not a double standard. Abortion can hardly be considered an "out". If anything its an out for the man.

	26-04-2002 07:04									#12
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quote: Originally posted by November Adam Some would argue that the act was all the volunteering required.

I agree, thats why I said I can imagine how it would be involuntary...unless he was raped or had his sperm taken.

	26-04-2002 07:06									#13
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quote: Originally posted by November Adam Some would argue that the act was all the volunteering required.

I don't agree with that. If reasonable precautions are taken, then conception is an accident. Saying you agreed to get saddled with a lifelong responsibility when you hopped in the sack with a girl while wearing a capote is like saying you volunteer to get hit by a car when you cross the street with the light.

	26-04-2002 07:07									#14
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quote: Originally posted by November Adam Should a man who wants the woman he got pregnant to have an abortion, should he have to pay child support if she chooses not to? Should a legal system that supports abortion be in the right to force him to do so?

YES!! The man needs to take care of his responsibilites! He had sex knowing what the consequences should be. A child shouldn't have to die because his father is cheap.

	26-04-2002 07:08									#15
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I don't agree with that. If reasonable precautions are taken, then conception is an accident. Saying you agreed to get saddled with a lifelong responsibility when you hopped in the sack with a girl while wearing a capote is like saying you volunteer to get hit by a car when you cross the street with the light.

No contraception is 100% foolproof. If you are ignorant of this fact when you jump in the sack then tough titties.

	26-04-2002 07:09									#16
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quote: So what you are outlining Imran is a double standard then.

Yep, there is a double standard.

Like KH said... when you consent to sex, you don't consent to child birth... that is why we have abortions .

Consent for one act doesn't lead to consent for another act.

	26-04-2002 07:10									#17
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quote: No contraception is 100% foolproof. If you are ignorant of this fact when you jump in the sack then tough titties.

And there isn't a 100% chance you won't get hit by a car when you cross the street... so I guess you'd say if you were hit while crossing the road, tough titties, eh?

	26-04-2002 07:10									#18
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My ideal system:

If the man knew that the woman would not have an abortion before having sex, he gets to pay.
If he did not use contraception, or used sh*tty contraception, he gets to pay (unless the woman told him not to use a condom or something).
If the abortion would cause a risk to the woman, he gets to pay.
If he doesn't want her to have an abortion, he gets to pay.

Failing all of these, he should be off the hook.

	26-04-2002 07:10									#19
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The "double standard" works both ways. If the man wants the child and the woman doesnt, the woman gets to make the decision.

	26-04-2002 07:11									#20
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Walking across the street isn't 100% safe either. Why should a girl be able to hold you up for ransom for an accident caused by the both of you? There's a legal alternative, and if she chooses not to take it then you should be absolved of all legal responsibility.

	26-04-2002 07:12									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: No contraception is 100% foolproof. If you are ignorant of this fact when you jump in the sack then tough titties. And there isn't a 100% chance you won't get hit by a car when you cross the street... so I guess you'd say if you were hit while crossing the road, tough titties, eh?

Actually abstinence is 100% foolproof.

Anyway, thats a terrible analogy. You are comparing some guy getting his rocks off with crossing the road?? Pffffffffff

	26-04-2002 07:13									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia The "double standard" works both ways. If the man wants the child and the woman doesnt, the woman gets to make the decision.

Huh? That's the point. The woman always has the choice under the current system. You shouldn't be able to force a woman to have an abortion (since it's her body), but the fact is that there's a legal and safe alternative to having the child. It's her decision to have the baby, therefore it should legally be her responsibility.

	26-04-2002 07:13									#23
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quote: If he did not use contraception, or used sh*tty contraception, he gets to pay

Well if they did not use contraception, the woman can either have the child or not... she has a choice after the pregancy is revealed.

The man has NO choice after the revelation of the pregnancy. If he wants the child, but she doesn't, the child is aborted. If he doesn't want the child, but she does, then he is responsible for child support. He is at the mercy of the woman after the act of sex, because she has the only say after the sexual act.

	26-04-2002 07:14									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Actually abstinence is 100% foolproof

Not going outside will guarantee you won't get hit by a car, too.

	26-04-2002 07:14									#25
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Walking across the street isn't 100% safe either. Why should a girl be able to hold you up for ransom for an accident caused by the both of you? There's a legal alternative, and if she chooses not to take it then you should be absolved of all legal responsibility.

Getting your rocks off with some chick is not a necessary part of daily life. Crossing the road is. The analogy sucks.

	26-04-2002 07:14									#26
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quote: Anyway, thats a terrible analogy. You are comparing some guy getting his rocks off with crossing the road??

It is terrible to you because it doesn't jive with your views.

	26-04-2002 07:15									#27
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Being a person who pays child support, I think you are all wrong. It's not a double standard. If you can't do the time, don't do the time.

And as far as, "I don't want anything to do with the child, so why should I pay?"

Because, you jag off, you stiil helped bring life into the world, you can at the very least, make sure that life flourishes.

	26-04-2002 07:15									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Anyway, thats a terrible analogy. You are comparing some guy getting his rocks off with crossing the road?? It is terrible to you because it doesn't jive with your views.

No, its terrible period.

	26-04-2002 07:15									#29
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quote: Getting your rocks off is not a necessary part of daily life. Crossing the road is. The analogy sucks.

How about another one... if you enter in a bar and someone beats you up, then tough titties. You didn't have to go into the bar, and it could be seen that you could have been beaten up, so you have to deal, right?

	26-04-2002 07:16									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: If he did not use contraception, or used sh*tty contraception, he gets to pay Well if they did not use contraception, the woman can either have the child or not... she has a choice after the pregancy is revealed. The man has NO choice after the revelation of the pregnancy. If he wants the child, but she doesn't, the child is aborted. If he doesn't want the child, but she does, then he is responsible for child support. He is at the mercy of the woman after the act of sex, because she has the only say after the sexual act.

Which I think is wrong.

But then again, I'm with Calig on the whole abstinance thing.